- Oct 9, 1999
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Wilt won, IIRC, two titles in 20 years. Shaq's never won a title without Kobe; we'll see what happens in Miami. Hakeem had a very solid team around him, as did Russell. Kareem won a title early with Oscar Robertson, then didn't win again until the Lakers had Magic, Scott, and Worthy. David Robinson had a good team (oh, yeah, and a guy named Tim Duncan, too.
)Without exceptions all the great centers that have won titles have had very good teams around them. There hasn't been on yet who can carry a team to victory by himself - although Shaq is close.
Come on X...other than Jordan's teams, and even they had Pippen, no ONE player has ever really won a title by himself...so saying that all these great centers always had help is really a moot point.
I'd still take Yao over Amare, and that isn't a knock on Amare...the Rockets are still filling in the pieces around Yao, and he and McGready are still getting used to playing with each other...they are actually the oldest team in the NBA, they really don't have any good point guards, and their depth is awful....however, with those two, they have a great foundation in place for the next 7-9 years assuming they stay healthy. Ming is very talented - a very good passer, he tends to stay out of foul trouble - and he's 7'5! Also, as several people have mentioned, he's a cash cow for the Rockets.
Amare is not a center, lets make that clear. Yes, he technically starts at C for the Suns, but the Suns are going to have to make up their minds - do they trade Shawn Marion for a real center - Theo Ratliff would be perfect, but that is the kind of center they need - or do they trade Joe Johnson? I like Joe Johnson a lot, and he comes much cheaper than Marion does....the Suns now are exciting and fun to watch, but they can't defend the bigger teams at all with Marion at PF - he's supposed to guard Duncan or Garnett?
Amare is impressive, and I think his game will develop even more - the only thing that concerns me about him is that he relies of physical dominance to score - jumps over people to get his shot off - that he reminds me of Shawn Kemp in that regard - I'd like to see his post up game develop much more than simply dunking, but I think he can.
I think they are both going to be good players for a long time, but I would guess that Yao will win a title before Amare does.
I'd still take Yao over Amare, and that isn't a knock on Amare...the Rockets are still filling in the pieces around Yao, and he and McGready are still getting used to playing with each other...they are actually the oldest team in the NBA, they really don't have any good point guards, and their depth is awful....however, with those two, they have a great foundation in place for the next 7-9 years assuming they stay healthy. Ming is very talented - a very good passer, he tends to stay out of foul trouble - and he's 7'5! Also, as several people have mentioned, he's a cash cow for the Rockets.
Amare is not a center, lets make that clear. Yes, he technically starts at C for the Suns, but the Suns are going to have to make up their minds - do they trade Shawn Marion for a real center - Theo Ratliff would be perfect, but that is the kind of center they need - or do they trade Joe Johnson? I like Joe Johnson a lot, and he comes much cheaper than Marion does....the Suns now are exciting and fun to watch, but they can't defend the bigger teams at all with Marion at PF - he's supposed to guard Duncan or Garnett?
Amare is impressive, and I think his game will develop even more - the only thing that concerns me about him is that he relies of physical dominance to score - jumps over people to get his shot off - that he reminds me of Shawn Kemp in that regard - I'd like to see his post up game develop much more than simply dunking, but I think he can.
I think they are both going to be good players for a long time, but I would guess that Yao will win a title before Amare does.
iamme
Lifer
- Jul 21, 2001
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you know, i haven't gotten a chance to watch the Suns play (i really mean to, because they have a very exciting team on paper), but i hear that Amare has developed a semi-consistent 15ft jump shot. can anyone validate this?
iirc, the moment shawn kemp elevated his game from just highlight dunks to elite PF, was when he developed a solid post game and a consistent outside shot. if Amare can master those, he'll be something special.
how many shooting guards other than MJ lead teams to Championships? how many PF other than duncan (more of a C anyway) has done it? how many SF other Larry Bird has done it?
i'm willing to bet # of centers that were the #1 or #2 player on their team far exceeds that of players from any other position.
btw, in the list of centers you left out Moses Malone, he wasn't as great as the others but i believe he and Dr J won one for Philadelphia.
matter of fact, i'd say Ewing is the exception and not the rule.
i'm willing to bet # of centers that were the #1 or #2 player on their team far exceeds that of players from any other position.
btw, in the list of centers you left out Moses Malone, he wasn't as great as the others but i believe he and Dr J won one for Philadelphia.
matter of fact, i'd say Ewing is the exception and not the rule.
Originally posted by: X-Man
Wilt won, IIRC, two titles in 20 years. Shaq's never won a title without Kobe; we'll see what happens in Miami. Hakeem had a very solid team around him, as did Russell. Kareem won a title early with Oscar Robertson, then didn't win again until the Lakers had Magic, Scott, and Worthy. David Robinson had a good team (oh, yeah, and a guy named Tim Duncan, too.
Without exceptions all the great centers that have won titles have had very good teams around them. There hasn't been on yet who can carry a team to victory by himself - although Shaq is close.
Going to have to disagree with you there. Hakeem won his first title with the least support of any other star center in the history of the league. The rest of the team was filled with journeymen type players. People like Mario Elie, Robert "disappears for 47 minutes" Horry, Otis Thorpe, Sam Cassell as a rookie, Kenny Smith... these were definately not all stars that Hakeem was surrounded with.
Edit: Look for yourself. It's amazing that this team was able to win a championship.
I created a thread a few years back regarding this issue when I felt Yao was robbed for ROY. Currently, Amare is just dominating. His mid-range jumper has really improved in 2 years and his presence in the paint creates havoc for the other team. He's impressive in a majority of the statistical categories. In the next few years, he's just going to get better and better.
At this time, there's no contest between who's the better player. Amare is clearly superior.
However, I believe Yao Ming has more potential. He has all the skills necessary to become a superstar. His mindset is still passive when fighting for rebounds or opting for a layup rather than a dunk. He could change that but it's up to him. If he does, Rockets will win a title someday. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that it will be anytime soon.
At this time, there's no contest between who's the better player. Amare is clearly superior.
However, I believe Yao Ming has more potential. He has all the skills necessary to become a superstar. His mindset is still passive when fighting for rebounds or opting for a layup rather than a dunk. He could change that but it's up to him. If he does, Rockets will win a title someday. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that it will be anytime soon.
Originally posted by: Xenon
Originally posted by: X-Man
Wilt won, IIRC, two titles in 20 years. Shaq's never won a title without Kobe; we'll see what happens in Miami. Hakeem had a very solid team around him, as did Russell. Kareem won a title early with Oscar Robertson, then didn't win again until the Lakers had Magic, Scott, and Worthy. David Robinson had a good team (oh, yeah, and a guy named Tim Duncan, too.
Without exceptions all the great centers that have won titles have had very good teams around them. There hasn't been on yet who can carry a team to victory by himself - although Shaq is close.
Going to have to disagree with you there. Hakeem won his first title with the least support of any other star center in the history of the league. The rest of the team was filled with journeymen type players. People like Mario Elie, Robert "disappears for 47 minutes" Horry, Otis Thorpe, Sam Cassell as a rookie, Kenny Smith... these were definately not all stars that Hakeem was surrounded with.
Edit: Look for yourself. It's amazing that this team was able to win a championship.
Sam Cassell?
In any case, Yao will never be Hakeem.
ive watch a few Houston games this year
if given the ball Yao can take over a game!!!!
if dumbasses like jim jackson and maurice taylor would give him the ball instead of just dribbling down and jacking up a jumpshot this team would be sooo much better!!
if given the ball Yao can take over a game!!!!
if dumbasses like jim jackson and maurice taylor would give him the ball instead of just dribbling down and jacking up a jumpshot this team would be sooo much better!!
I'm amazed they lead the league in 3pt attempts, they don't have any good 3pt shooters!
BTW, you really have to put the Rocket's title that year in context - they only won because Jordan was trying to hit baseballs.
BTW, you really have to put the Rocket's title that year in context - they only won because Jordan was trying to hit baseballs.
It all comes down to ball distribution. If Yao had a true point guard with him, I think he would be a better overall player, meaning he'd get more touches. Mcgrady and Francis aren't PGs and are/were playing out of position. If Houston got a elite PG, it would make them a much more formidable team.
In the season before Yao, Houston sucked. In his first season, he made Houston an above .500 team and helped them reach the playoffs in his 2003-2004 season. That's pretty consistent. I think he deserved to be ROY more so than Amare because he had to work with ball hogging Francis and Mobley. He should still have been drafted #1 overall IMHO.
In the season before Yao, Houston sucked. In his first season, he made Houston an above .500 team and helped them reach the playoffs in his 2003-2004 season. That's pretty consistent. I think he deserved to be ROY more so than Amare because he had to work with ball hogging Francis and Mobley. He should still have been drafted #1 overall IMHO.
Amare has Steve Nash as a PG, Yao has Charlie Ward. You switch the PG, Yao's production goes up & Amare's goes down. I would take the true Center, Yao.
Yes.
Amare can score, and he's fairly athletic. But Yao is more charismatic (potentially makes his team better) and seems able to elevate his game when he needs to. He is a huge fan favorite, and generates revenue. I expect the rockets to improve as the season goes on.
The better question is whether anyone would take carmelo anthony over dwayne wade in retrospect.
Amare can score, and he's fairly athletic. But Yao is more charismatic (potentially makes his team better) and seems able to elevate his game when he needs to. He is a huge fan favorite, and generates revenue. I expect the rockets to improve as the season goes on.
The better question is whether anyone would take carmelo anthony over dwayne wade in retrospect.
- Oct 9, 1999
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In what way? They're the league's oldest team. The only real marketable players they have are T-Mac and Yao. Neither of them are likely to be traded. Houston will be lucky to make the playoffs. They're hovering around .500 and have a whopping two players scoring in double figures. Maybe if they hadn't traded Jim Jackson they're chances would have been better, but Wesley hasn't exactly been lighting it up since he came over from the Hornets . . .
In the way that any team with a major change in their makeup will improve over time as they get used to playing together. I think they are already showing signs of being better now than at the early stages of the season.
Yao isnt a player. hes way to skinny to be a center. hes just goony. IDK imo hes a slightly better then average center who is riddiculusly overrated. Plus hes old already
old? Yao is 24. Only 2 years older than Amare. He's easily got 10+ years ahead of him.
If Yao ever got a decent point guard feeding him the ball like Steve Nash, he'd flourish.
bringing in Jeff Van Gundy does not help Yao's game at all. JVG bringing in old Knicks like Ewing, Ward, and Harrington does not help either.
Yao is a player ... but a bit too soft for the pounding everyone has to give him every night to compete with his height. As a result he gets tossed around a bit, despite the fact that for someone as tall as he is, he really isn't skinny. Looks like Chris Farley when compared to Shawn Bradley!
I think Amare is a better player at the moment, stronger, more athletic and most importantly, more aggressive.
Yao however, has the potential to take a team further if surrounded by the right pieces. Tracy McGrady is ungodly athletic, but will never, EVER win a championship because he has to get his. (Reminiscent of Stevie Francis, who still has a black mark in my book for boycotting Vancouver after being drafted).
In retrospect, I suspect the draft went down as it should to answer the original question.
edit: spelling
I think Amare is a better player at the moment, stronger, more athletic and most importantly, more aggressive.
Yao however, has the potential to take a team further if surrounded by the right pieces. Tracy McGrady is ungodly athletic, but will never, EVER win a championship because he has to get his. (Reminiscent of Stevie Francis, who still has a black mark in my book for boycotting Vancouver after being drafted).
In retrospect, I suspect the draft went down as it should to answer the original question.
edit: spelling
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