Would this oil consumption notice worry you?

[Ferzerp]

I think they're more providing that crap Chrysler service experience for the folks who get a bad engine than reacting to any systemic manufacturing issue. There is no rhyme nor reason to the bulletein. It pretty much covers all their cars, all their engines (other than the 392) for those two years.

 

[hdfxst]

I wouldn't tolerate 1 quart in 2000 miles,my wife's journey with a 3.6 has 2500 and the oil is still on the full mark

 

[Bignate603]

It's alarming to me. I wouldn't buy a vehicle with such a disclaimer. Particularly the after 50K miles part.

If I am putting in a quart of oil every other tank of gas, that's not normal.

You may be surprised to hear that plenty of other manufacturers have similar standards.

GM passenger car oil consumption

People have claimed running into similar standards for Honda, Toyota, etc when asking for warranty repairs.

 

[NetWareHead]

Basically, nissan has officially stated that something outrageous like 1 quart per ~1000 miles is considered acceptable oil consumption. So, between a 5000 mile oil interval you could replace all 5 quarts and it still be 'acceptable'.

Ugh this reminds me of a 2006 Nissan Altima I once leased brand new with a 4 cylinder engine. The damn car developed a problem and was drinking a quart or so of oil every 2 weeks. I could tell it needed oil by a clattering sound that came from under the hood, especially when cornering, as g-forces pulled the oil in the pan away from the oil pump pickup. That was my queue to pick up a quart or 2 of cheap oil from supermarket and pour it in.

I needed some suspension work done to the car as a result of sliding not a curb during snowy weather and asked my mechanic to inspect the engine, I was thinking of buying out the lease. He said as a result of the oil consumption and starvation, he could already see the engine had worn main bearings and advised me to walk away from the car for good.

Nissan knew of the issue and enrolled me into some program where they would pay for me oil purchases yet never did anything to fix the problem. I resented the time and hassle of needing to add oil to the car on a near weekly basis. Literally 2-4 quarts per month! I gave the vehicle back to the dealership and never looked back. Be wary of any secondhand 2006 4 cylinder Altimas.

 

[Instan00dles]

Yeah that would kind of worry me, I have an 06 chevy aveo with 200k kms on it and after 8k the oil is still pretty much where it was when I changed the oil.

 

[soccerballtux]

I know the hemis tend to burn a bit of oil, but not that much (mine is nowhere near low by the time to change the oil). It also doesn't say that the engines will burn that much. It says that they won't bother fixing them unless they are.

I'd say this is more to do with bad service policies than bad engines. Mine isn't covered by this notice either. It's both 1 year older (a 2011) and an SRT.

+1 tail covering at finest

 

[LTC8K6]

You may be surprised to hear that plenty of other manufacturers have similar standards.

GM passenger car oil consumption

People have claimed running into similar standards for Honda, Toyota, etc when asking for warranty repairs.

The 1 quart in 2K I might be able to tolerate, but no way would I tolerate a quart in 750 miles.

My 08 5.7L Hemi has 19K on it now. It has always used up about a half quart between oil changes, which is fine with me.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

What is the acceptable oil consumption rate for Wankel engines? I'd love to dig that info out of Mazda.

 

[allanon1965]

late model chryslers are notorious for this high oil consumption at highway speeds...it all goes back to the low tension piston rings, especially the oil control ring...all made low tension to combat friction and raise miles per gallon...

they havent figured out the balance yet..the dealerships around here have been doing alot of re-ring jobs on these engines...especially the 3.8 in the caravans...then people were complaining about a mileage drop... sorry folks, cant have it both ways in a chrysler..

 

[Howard]

I hate to say this but for years now across several manufacturers 1qt per 1000 miles seems to be the normal guideline for acceptable limit.

The worst case in our household was an Izusu rodeo with the 3.2. With a new PCV valve consumption was about .999 qts per 1000 miles but once the PCV valve had a few months under its belt consumption dropped to 1qt per 500 miles.

Despite the oil consumption, that truck ran great throughout the 130K mile we had it. fortunately for my wife, I developed the habit of checking the oil in all my vehicles at every other tanks fill.

Wait, with the new PCV valve the oil consumption doubled?

 

[pauldun170]

Wait, with the new PCV valve the oil consumption doubled?

NO..
New PCV valve = .999 qts per 1000 miles
Old PCV valve = 1qt per 500 miles

 

[Howard]

NO..
New PCV valve = .999 qts per 1000 miles
Old PCV valve = 1qt per 500 miles

Your use of the word "dropped" confused me.

 

[pauldun170]

Your use of the word "dropped" confused me.

fair enough
That's what I get for not proof reading.
Corrected

 

[Squisher]

Higher horsepower vehicles require looser tolerances. I would think with everybody striving to wring the the last bit of horsepower out of every engine, oil consumption would raise across the board.

 

[allanon1965]

Higher horsepower vehicles require looser tolerances. I would think with everybody striving to wring the the last bit of horsepower out of every engine, oil consumption would raise across the board.

this is actually not true....the tolerances in todays engines are actually tighter than ever, it is less friction that is the key to more horsepower and better mileage. this is why todays oils are so much better on the molecular level than oils your dad and his dad.

Mobil One is not what alot of people think it is...especially for the European engines, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Audi, etc

below is some information from an expert in the field of lubrication, Kevin McCartney

For some cars, using conventional API & ILSAC approved oil
of ANY brand and/or ANY viscosity there is no safe change
interval. Even 2,000 miles could get you into trouble and
3,000 miles certainly will.

The most current Mobil 1
product data sheet I have shows that it does not meet the
BMW LL requirement.

1. The current (2/2005) Mobil 1 5W-30 fails to meet the
ACEA A5/B5 or A3/B3 ratings. It previously met the A5/B5
ratings but was thinner (10.0 Cst verses the current 11.3
Cst) than the BMW stuff. The current 10W-30 meets the A5/B5
rating but is significantly thinner at 10.0 Cst (BMW oil is
up around 12)

2. Both the Mobil 1 5W-30 and 10W-30 fail to meet the BMW
LL approvals.

The Mobil 1 "Extended Performance" versions still do not
meet BMW LL approval or ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 approvals.

The Mobil 1 0W-40 European formula does meet the A3/B3/B4
and BMW ll ratings but it is a 14.3 Cst SAE 40 weight.

while Castrol does pretty well...

Castrol Syntec 0W-30 is a 12.1 Cst SAE 30 weight that does
meet the ACEA A3/B3/B4 and BMW LL approvals. It is a good
choice for the BMWs that require a 5W-30 or 0W-30. Castrol
5W-30 and 10W-30 are much thinner than the Castrol 0W-30
and Mobil 1 XXW-30s and has the same shortcomings as the
Mobil 1 XXW-30 products.

BMW is using variable valve timing which makes proper
viscosity even more important. So, I'd go with OEM, Castrol
0W-30 or another product that meets similar specs.

1.Most people don't have "normal/schedule A" driving
conditions. 2. Oil service ratings ratings are critical. 3.
Failure to obtain proper oil changes can result in
catastrophic engine failure that is not covered by the
manufacturer.

I doubt that most people (even technicians) will understand
what oil service ratings are and how complex this issue is.
It's a pretty safe bet that when Bubba at the quick Lube
says: Brand X, XW-X0 is the stuff to use, he'll accept that
as a service rating and call it good.

If people (including technicians) could be trusted to
always use the correct service rating and viscosity, then
the Schedule B recomendations that are stretching to 5,000
miles might just be OK as an absolute maximum. EXCEPT, in
the case of the unexpected impact of minor design changes.

Those minor design changes have created nightmares for
owners of Toyota 3.0, 2.2, Chrysler 2.7 (and perhaps 4.7),
VW 1.8T, etc.

Without knowing which engine will fall victim to this
syndrome next, the 3,000 mile oil change seems like cheap
insurance. Unfortunately focusing on the 3,000 mile
interval has another problem. It convinces people that the
oil change frequency is more important than the service
rating. Those engines I listed above have proved otherwise.

Oil service ratings are complicated enough for seasoned
technicians. They are way beyond consumers and Bubba,
Kooter, etc.

My Ex-wife has a Lexus with the 3.0 sludge monster. It is
not a simple decission sorting out the kind of oil change
service to best address her situation(that fits both her
needs and the shop situation without wasting $$$).

Do you go to the highest grade ($$$) oil and extend oil
changes to 5,000 miles? Do you go to oil is half the cost
but still double the conventional stuff and stick to 3,000
mile oil changes? Do you blend 4 quarts of Diesel rated
conventional with a quart of that highest grade group IV
base stock stuf and still stick with 3,000 mile changes?

Depending on who the chosen local oil supplier is and the
OEM recomended viscosity, any of those options could be
very sound. But that article sure as heck doesn't explain
how complicated that decission is going to be for the
service provider.

I don't have all the details but there have been links on
at least one of these forums (TDF I think). Mercedes Benz
(and other Europeans) have more specific oil requirements
for their vehicles. Especially their high performance, TDI,
and vehicles equipped with oil monitoring systems and
extended drain intervals. Many API SL oils do not meet the
required ACEA specs (A3, A5, B4, etc) or proprietary specs
( MB 229.3, MB 229.5, VW 505.00, BMW longlife 01, etc).

Apparently MB dealers assumed that API SL took care of
everything. thats why they lost when they were sued over engine issues, using the wrong oil...
That's easy to believe. Even many seasoned
techs aren't aware of the ACEA ratings. In some cases I
think the issue was just one of a "higher" spec being
necessary for the extended drains. In other cases I think
the higher spec was required no matter what (That may have
been just the AMG performance models). Regardless, MB lost
because it was shown that their dealers were not using the
required oils or recomending the required oils. I've read
at least three different accounts of the situation and they
all seem to agree that the problem was mis-understanding or
ignoring ACEA ratings. The assumption is that the vehicles
were damaged from use of the wrong oils. None of the
accounts I read gave details on that.

I think any API SL probably meets A1 even if it is not
labeled that way (not sure). Many of the others are much
more specialized and harder to meet. IE: It is extremely
dificult to find an oil that meets all of the VW TDI
requirements. In fact VW of America chose to exclude some
of VW Europes requirements because the oils would be too
dificult to obtain here.



I think the API approach to service ratings has created a
problem. API insists on a single current standard that
always remains backwards compatible. That has historically
meant that nobody had to worry about service ratings as
long as they purchased a reputable brand in the proper
viscosity.

But that aint so anymore! The Europeans have taken a very
different approach. Changes in engine and emission
technology and economic pressures of taxes and disposal
fees have resulted lubrication needs that simply aren't met
by a single service rating.

There are 14 generic European service ratings and most of
them exceed API standards. There are also about a dozen
important Proprietary European ratings that exceed API
standards. And, even American and Japanese cars often
require prorietary ratings that exceed API standards.

So, if you select an oil assuming that the current API
service rating is plenty, you fail to meet the needs of
Ford, Honda, most European cars and a few GM, Chrysler and
Japanese cars.

And there are strong indications that a significant number
of the remaining Chrysler 2.7/4.7, Toyota 3.0/2.2, etc are
still underserved by the API standard.

But attitudes change slowly, The general public and most
technicians in America are still selecting oil as they did
when service ratings could be ignored.

 

[HeXen]

chrysler makes some junk. we have dodge trucks at work and oil consumption is the norm, its all the other issues we worry about.

Meanwhile, my 7 year old HOnda has yet to use any noticable oil from the dipstick reading, even the times when i've well exceeded my recommened oil change.

 

[Bignate603]

What is the acceptable oil consumption rate for Wankel engines? I'd love to dig that info out of Mazda.

Slightly less than the amount of gas they burn.

 

[yottabit]

Wow that's crappy. A lot of people are probably going to be ruining their engines if they really burn that much. 1 qt every 750 means that you can run out of oil completely between changes if you don't check and it won't be under warranty because of that announcement. Yikes!

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Higher horsepower vehicles require looser tolerances. I would think with everybody striving to wring the the last bit of horsepower out of every engine, oil consumption would raise across the board.

In my opinion, based on experiences with motorcycles, I believe OCI are related to too soft of break-in when the engine is new.

 

[KentState]

Just one of those things that you have to stay on top of. Doesn't seem any different that tires that loose more air over time than others. People just need to get a little more intimate with their cars and know the patterns of wear.

 

[HeXen]

to be fair, your suppose to check your tires before you even get in to drive among other things.
For us CDL drivers, were actually supposed to do a full all around check every time, looking for signs of leak, cracks, tire wear..etc. the kinda routines that one would literally have to make a life long habit of and setting aside the time to do so....not likely to happen in America

 

[5150MyU]

I remember reading a Renault factory manual that said 1qt. every 750mi. was normal.
Granted this was in the 80's but I was doing their heater core recall and just happened to stumble upon it.
BTW this recall paid something like (vehicle owners $150.00) to have it done-we were getting junkyard vehicles that had to be pushed into the shop.

 

[MiataNC]

What is the acceptable oil consumption rate for Wankel engines? I'd love to dig that info out of Mazda.

The Renesis 13b used in the RX-8 injects oil based on load and RPM (2004-2008s have 2 injectors, 2009-201? have 3). The harder you drive the car the more oil it injects. Consumption will depend on how the car is driven. I checked the oil every fill-up in my 2008, and I would put in about 1/3 quart every @750 miles with light driving. "Spirited" driving resulted in about 1/2 quart every @750 miles.

Checking the oil at every fill-up used to be standard practice for all makes. Anyone old enough to remember the 60s-early 80s will remember full service stations that checked the oil for you. It has only been the last couple of decades that cars have not burned oil at a rate high enough to require checking it that frequently. We are spoiled by better metallurgy and tighter tolerances.

 

[Ferzerp]

My first car burned oil at around a 1:40 oil:gasoline ratio. Of course, it was also an 80's car nearing 200k miles.

 

[Apex]

The BMW S85 will eat this oil this fast with 10w60. LOL. I can't even imagine how much it'll eat with normal thickness oils.