Would now be a good time to start deporting illegals?

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Translation - You're full of shit

If you can't get labor for what your willing to pay then raise your wages, not farm pout the jobs OR bring in illegals to do the work.

Right. Because as a businessman, you dont worry about keeping the business alive. You worry about over-paying people.


Wait....what? Someone is full of shit.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, so if we FOLLOW THE ACTUAL LAW and don't grant these babies citizenship then they go right back to the country they are subjects are - just like their parents.

Enforcing the law costs a shit load of money. Why people think that raiding America in search of illegals without infringing on the privacy rights of legal Americans will be effective, cheap, and easy is beyond me.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, so if we FOLLOW THE ACTUAL LAW and don't grant these babies citizenship then they go right back to the country they are subjects are - just like their parents.

Enforcing the law costs a shit load of money. Why people think that raiding America in search of illegals without infringing on the privacy rights of legal Americans will be effective, cheap, and easy is beyond me.

Lets start with the obvious ones? I can drive through several places and know exactly who they are.

It isnt hard when they are standing in front of home depot holding up 3 fingers. (As in $3/hr)

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, so if we FOLLOW THE ACTUAL LAW and don't grant these babies citizenship then they go right back to the country they are subjects are - just like their parents.

Enforcing the law costs a shit load of money. Why people think that raiding America in search of illegals without infringing on the privacy rights of legal Americans will be effective, cheap, and easy is beyond me.

They have talked about laws that would work.. but for some reason they just can't seem to sign off on them. Make a law that says businesses that hire them get a massive fine and they will be out of work and they will leave for FREE. But instead those bills just never make it anywhere.

 

[yllus]

Noted

The U.S. would have to spend at least $94 billion just to detain and remove the nation?s estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, Immigration and Customs Enforcement chief Julie Myers told Congress last week. That figure does not include the largely unknowable cost of actually tracking down and arresting the illegal immigrants, or of court proceedings.

CNN.com - Thursday, January 10, 2008

 

[Fear No Evil]

Hell yes! Throw their asses out.. Oh wait, you said ILLEGALS.. I thought you said LIBERALS.. nevermind..

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Lets start with the obvious ones? I can drive through several places and know exactly who they are.

It isnt hard when they are standing in front of home depot holding up 3 fingers. (As in $3/hr)

Arresting people for standing in front of Home Depot is going to go over really well. Basically you're saying 'go arrest anyone who looks like an illegal immigrant'... sounds pretty illegal to me.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Lets start with the obvious ones? I can drive through several places and know exactly who they are.

It isnt hard when they are standing in front of home depot holding up 3 fingers. (As in $3/hr)

Arresting people for standing in front of Home Depot is going to go over really well. Basically you're saying 'go arrest anyone who looks like an illegal immigrant'... sounds pretty illegal to me.

Actually police have the right to ask for identification from citizens. If they cannot produce said documentation, then the process can move ahead from there.

Or, they can set up stings and bust them for under the table wages. Maybe ask them if they reported their 1099 income to the IRS

There are plenty of ways to enforce our laws and still act within other laws

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Again, so if we FOLLOW THE ACTUAL LAW and don't grant these babies citizenship then they go right back to the country they are subjects are - just like their parents.

Enforcing the law costs a shit load of money. Why people think that raiding America in search of illegals without infringing on the privacy rights of legal Americans will be effective, cheap, and easy is beyond me.

Eh? Why not stop the flow first? One way is to emphatically end the anchor baby travesty. Another would be to finish the damn fence. And another would be strict business enforcement along with an SS# check system that BHO looks to have defunded/ended/whatever.

THEN after those things in place we deport as we catch them. IMMEDIATE deportation would work.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I wish it were that easy. What about those illegals who have given birth to what are now 100% legal American citizens? You want to ship them home and leave their American kids....where?

Then you need to address the fact that most will just come back anyways.

Well first i think we need to change the laws. illegal+illegal does not = legal. Then were onto something and can deport their ILLEGAL asses.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: yllus
Noted

The U.S. would have to spend at least $94 billion just to detain and remove the nation?s estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, Immigration and Customs Enforcement chief Julie Myers told Congress last week. That figure does not include the largely unknowable cost of actually tracking down and arresting the illegal immigrants, or of court proceedings.

CNN.com - Thursday, January 10, 2008

Just add that cost into one of BHO's massive spending packages... everything else is in there...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Arresting people for standing in front of Home Depot is going to go over really well. Basically you're saying 'go arrest anyone who looks like an illegal immigrant'... sounds pretty illegal to me.

Actually police have the right to ask for identification from citizens. If they cannot produce said documentation, then the process can move ahead from there.

Or, they can set up stings and bust them for under the table wages. Maybe ask them if they reported their 1099 income to the IRS

There are plenty of ways to enforce our laws and still act within other laws

This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: eskimospy


This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

I thought being in this country illegally was a crime?

Did you read my post?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Arresting people for standing in front of Home Depot is going to go over really well. Basically you're saying 'go arrest anyone who looks like an illegal immigrant'... sounds pretty illegal to me.

Actually police have the right to ask for identification from citizens. If they cannot produce said documentation, then the process can move ahead from there.

Or, they can set up stings and bust them for under the table wages. Maybe ask them if they reported their 1099 income to the IRS

There are plenty of ways to enforce our laws and still act within other laws

This is incorrect. Well, technically police can ASK for whatever they want, but you are not required to give ID to the police. The only time they can compel you to give ID is if they have reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or is about to be committed. You know as well as I do that 'standing in front of Home Depot' is not going to cut it. Furthermore they can tell the cops to fuck off if they ask them about their tax returns.

I'm also not sure how the cops would set up a sting to report undeclared wages done by the workers, as they aren't compelled to disclose their wages to anyone but the IRS and below a certain point (which they are probably at) unreported income is only subject to fines, not arrest.

If you want to split hairs, all a cop needs is "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being commited to force one to present ID. Loitering, trespassing, etc.

It is the same thing with a traffic stop. The laws are so broad and vague, that a primary stop can be made for almost anything. Cops can see a black kid in a nice neighborhood or a white guy in a nice car in a bad neighborhood at night, pull them over due to race, and then look for the real "reason" they were pulled over. Underinflated tires? Tint? Something on the mirror? No seatbelt? No front license plate?

The point is, if we ever got serious of ridding this country of illegal immigrants, we could do it. Would it inconvenience some legal immigrants? Maybe. But then again my rights are infringed on when I get my crotch grabbed at the airport or sporting events, but it is for the common good.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I wish it were that easy. What about those illegals who have given birth to what are now 100% legal American citizens? You want to ship them home and leave their American kids....where?

Then you need to address the fact that most will just come back anyways.

They are not 100% legal American citizens... they have just been seen that way despite the law being VERY clear to those that actually care about it.

"a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"

How does a child of a citizen of a foreign country here illegally fall into that definition or any of the other rulings of the USSC? Hopefully Congress will put an end to anchor babies but at this point with liberals in charge we won't see it any time soon.

If we had elected John "Open Borders" McCain would it be any different?
Republicans had their chance to fix immigration, and didn't get it done.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

If you want to split hairs, all a cop needs is "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being commited to force one to present ID. Loitering, trespassing, etc.

It is the same thing with a traffic stop. The laws are so broad and vague, that a primary stop can be made for almost anything. Cops can see a black kid in a nice neighborhood or a white guy in a nice car in a bad neighborhood at night, pull them over due to race, and then look for the real "reason" they were pulled over. Underinflated tires? Tint? Something on the mirror? No seatbelt? No front license plate?

The point is, if we ever got serious of ridding this country of illegal immigrants, we could do it. Would it inconvenience some legal immigrants? Maybe. But then again my rights are infringed on when I get my crotch grabbed at the airport or sporting events, but it is for the common good.

If you suddenly saw police undertake a large scale effort to demand ID/arrest/deport illegal immigrants by doing that sort of thing as a policy they would be sued into oblivion post haste. What you're describing definitely works well for police in isolated incidents, but it's just not usable on a large enough scale to make much of a difference.

Your rights aren't infringed upon by being felt up at the airport because it falls under the government's legitimate authority to ensure the safety of travel. Making the same argument for randomly IDing everyone who looks foreign isn't going to fly. (har har)

I have no doubt we could massively reduce the number of illegal immigrants in this country. It would be a horrible waste of energy, resources, and moral authority, but we could do it. I for one am grateful that our representatives seem to have realized this and not implemented such a policy.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

If you want to split hairs, all a cop needs is "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being commited to force one to present ID. Loitering, trespassing, etc.

It is the same thing with a traffic stop. The laws are so broad and vague, that a primary stop can be made for almost anything. Cops can see a black kid in a nice neighborhood or a white guy in a nice car in a bad neighborhood at night, pull them over due to race, and then look for the real "reason" they were pulled over. Underinflated tires? Tint? Something on the mirror? No seatbelt? No front license plate?

The point is, if we ever got serious of ridding this country of illegal immigrants, we could do it. Would it inconvenience some legal immigrants? Maybe. But then again my rights are infringed on when I get my crotch grabbed at the airport or sporting events, but it is for the common good.

I have no doubt we could massively reduce the number of illegal immigrants in this country. It would be a horrible waste of energy, resources, and moral authority, but we could do it. I for one am grateful that our representatives seem to have realized this and not implemented such a policy.

To pretend that our elected representatives wont tackle this issue is due to their respect for resources or moral authority is intellectually dishonest. There is only one thing an elected official who hasnt hit their term limit cares about: votes.

If you could really poll all politicians off the record, you would see support for deportation is much higher than it appears from public statements/policies/voting records.

The same with religion. I have a feeling there are a few more athiests/agnostics in government than will actually admit it.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

If you want to split hairs, all a cop needs is "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being commited to force one to present ID. Loitering, trespassing, etc.

It is the same thing with a traffic stop. The laws are so broad and vague, that a primary stop can be made for almost anything. Cops can see a black kid in a nice neighborhood or a white guy in a nice car in a bad neighborhood at night, pull them over due to race, and then look for the real "reason" they were pulled over. Underinflated tires? Tint? Something on the mirror? No seatbelt? No front license plate?

The point is, if we ever got serious of ridding this country of illegal immigrants, we could do it. Would it inconvenience some legal immigrants? Maybe. But then again my rights are infringed on when I get my crotch grabbed at the airport or sporting events, but it is for the common good.

If you suddenly saw police undertake a large scale effort to demand ID/arrest/deport illegal immigrants by doing that sort of thing as a policy they would be sued into oblivion post haste. What you're describing definitely works well for police in isolated incidents, but it's just not usable on a large enough scale to make much of a difference.

Your rights aren't infringed upon by being felt up at the airport because it falls under the government's legitimate authority to ensure the safety of travel. Making the same argument for randomly IDing everyone who looks foreign isn't going to fly. (har har)

I have no doubt we could massively reduce the number of illegal immigrants in this country. It would be a horrible waste of energy, resources, and moral authority, but we could do it. I for one am grateful that our representatives seem to have realized this and not implemented such a policy.

I think we could re-deploy or resources away from the war on marijuana (872,000 arrests in 2007) and onto removing people that don't belong in this country.

Having millions of people that are unskilled and uneducated entering California has not had a beneficial effect on the quality of life or the economy here.

Remove anyone that is here illegally.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

To pretend that our elected representatives wont tackle this issue is due to their respect for resources or moral authority is intellectually dishonest. There is only one thing an elected official who hasnt hit their term limit cares about: votes.

If you could really poll all politicians off the record, you would see support for deportation is much higher than it appears from public statements/policies/voting records.

The same with religion. I have a feeling there are a few more athiests/agnostics in government than will actually admit it.

And implementing policies that are horrible wastes of our energy, resources, etc usually aren't good ways to get votes. I never said that politicians intrinsically valued these things, just that they weren't interested in squandering them. I'm not even going to get into your telepathic mind reading of politicians.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: marincounty

I think we could re-deploy or resources away from the war on marijuana (872,000 arrests in 2007) and onto removing people that don't belong in this country.

Having millions of people that are unskilled and uneducated entering California has not had a beneficial effect on the quality of life or the economy here.

Remove anyone that is here illegally.

I live in California, about 15 minutes away from the busiest border crossing on the planet. I've lived here for quite a long time. I completely disagree.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Translation - You're full of shit

If you can't get labor for what your willing to pay then raise your wages, not farm pout the jobs OR bring in illegals to do the work.

Right. Because as a businessman, you dont worry about keeping the business alive. You worry about over-paying people.


Wait....what? Someone is full of shit.

Yes someone is, you are.

No business has a "right" to survive in a "free market" especially if it has to do so with illegal labor.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The thinking is that neither of those jobs are going to pay a living wage, it would significantly hike the prices for goods illegal immigrant workers manufacture/work on/whatever which would lead to a productivity decline, terrible for economies, and it would be xenophobic, protectionist hysteria the likes of which countries seem to see every economic downturn. (check out your history to see just how many places responded to "wut? Economic downturn? Kick out the Imm'grunts!")

No maybe some construction workers in my town can get their jobs back. It is hard to compete when 3 illegals will work for what they were making.

 

[jhbball]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: jhbball

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: jhbball
Make them citizens. Give them a chance at their ONE life on this planet to support their families with reasonable (relative) wages. Seriously, I can't stand selfish Americans crying about this. Talk about a sense of entitlement. The only thing most of you did to deserve such a charmed life was be BORN here. Congrats!

Hell yes lets reward them for breaking the law, lets also make murderers police officers. They need to RESPECT the laws if they wanna live here PERIOD.

OK LAWL! NONSENSE BBQ!

Wow, at least youve shown your true colors kid.

Counterstrike is ------>



Anyway, Obama is already working on an easier way for local cops to let the feds know when they have illegals in custody.

I give Obama another :thumbsup: for that one.

Yeah, typing nonsense on the INTERNET clearly shows my true colors. Please type another emote.

 

[jhbball]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: ayabe
All I keep hearing is how tough it is for them now that the construction industry is DOA and that they're leaving in droves.

So the problem may work a lot of itself out, we just need to let the economy continue to tank.

If one were of the tinfoil hat persuasion, you could connect the dots and say that the R's voted against the stimulus to keep the economony in freefall, with the side benefit being a backdoor way to push the illegals out, without getting Blackwater involved.

Problem with this is I think the R's are the ones who take the biggest advantage from them.. For republican businessmen this is the closest thing they can get to slave like labor with no benefits.

Maybe if the lefties didnt mandate that high school dropouts make $30/hr for flipping burgers or packaging orders at wherehouses, there would be less jobs shipped overseas, and less "under-the-table" illegal workers?

Link to jobs paying $30/hr to flip burgers please

Oh look, here is one!

How about a real link?