Would a program like the CCC be possible today?

[BoberFett]

In another thread the revival of the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) was brought up. It could potentially serve as a program to boost the economy by increasing employment, teaching skills, improving work ethic, etc.

Would such a program even be viable today?

CCC workers were paid $30/month. Adjusted for inflation, according to the official BLS inflation calculator, $30/month is $538.95/month today. Assuming those young men worked at most 40 hours a week, that's about $3.10/hr. And of that, they were forced to send $25/month home to the family, so they only kept about $1.25/week. Adjust for inflation, $22.46/week in spending money.

The CCC slept in tents. They worked hard, doing manual labor. In this age of "jobs that Americans won't do" would such a jobs program even be possible? We have a large segment of people who believe that minimum wage for doing a cushy burger flipping job should be worth $25,000/year, could we actually pay unemployed young men enough to do hard work for less? Especially when you can sit back and do nothing and collect government money?

I'd be 100% in favor of a program like the CCC being revived, but I'm not sure it's even in the realm of possibility, at least not in any form that would look remotely like it was originally. I believe it would just be another highly paid cushy government position, probably with a union.

Thoughts?

 

[Druidx]

People make more on unemployment.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Doubt it'd be possible. The unions wouldn't allow it, unless the 'workers' were unionized and paid union wages. The Jesse Jackson's of the world would find a way to call it slave labor if any black people were made to join. The libs, in general, would howl and yowl at how demeaning it is to require them to work for their .gov goodies.

I do think it would be a good idea though. It would give some of the people on public assistance a sense of purpose and, hopefully, a feeling of accomplishment.

The Obamaconomy is crushing the dreams of the average American citizen. Something needs to be done to help re-ignite the passion that this country used to have.

 

[rudder]

Dude... I have a GED... No way in hell I am busting my hump for less than $20/hour.

 

[IronWing]

The CCC filled a void at a time when the private sector simply wasn't hiring. That is not the case today.


There are several CCC-like programs in existence. The Park Service, Forest Service, and various state forestry departments hire seasonal trail crews and fire crews that operate very much like the CCC did. The biggest competition for this type of work comes from prison labor. Why pay a worker $10/hour when you can pay a prisoner $0.50/hour?

 

[K1052]

call it slave labor if any black people were made to join.

While I generally don't agree with anything Jessee Jackson says I would be inclined to do so on this point were it made since compelling or unduly coercing anyone to join would violate the 13th Amendment. The CCC was voluntary.

 

[momeNt]

The CCC filled a void at a time when the private sector simply wasn't hiring. That is not the case today.


There are several CCC-like programs in existence. The Park Service, Forest Service, and various state forestry departments hire seasonal trail crews and fire crews that operate very much like the CCC did. The biggest competition for this type of work comes from prison labor. Why pay a worker $10/hour when you can pay a prisoner $0.50/hour?

Are you trying to tell us that the War on Drugs is actually harming society?

Get out of here with that hippie bullshit.

 

[Anarchist420]

no, because the u.s. govt doesnt know how to teach people even though i dont either.

it's better to just reduce public spending and taxes because that would free up the market while paying better wages than the CCC.

 

[momeNt]

It can't be called unemployment if you are working by the way. So this plan is destined to fail.

 

[unokitty]

Thoughts?

In its report Ready, Willing and Unable to Serve, Mission: Readiness - a group of retired military and civilian-military leaders - found that one in four young people between 17 and 24 does not have a high school diploma. About 30 percent of those who do, states the report, still fail the Armed Forces Qualification Test, the entrance test required to join the US military. Another one in ten young people cannot serve because of past convictions for felonies or serious misdemeanors, states the report.

Obesity and Other Health Problems Wash Many Out
A full 27 percent of young Americans are simply too overweight to join the military, says Mission: Readiness. "Many are turned away by recruiters and others never try to join. Of those who attempt to join, however, roughly 15,000 young potential recruits fail their entrance physicals every year because they are too heavy."

Nearly 32 percent have other disqualifying health problems, including asthma, eyesight or hearing problems, mental health issues, or recent treatment for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.

Due to all of the above and other assorted problems, only about two out of 10 American young people are fully eligible to join the military without special waivers, according to the report.

Obviously, the CCC worked well during its time.

But, given the condition of today's youth, its not at all clear that a similar program would work now.

Uno

 

[yllus]

A living wage in exchange for teaching useful skills seems like a worthy area to explore. I'm however not in favour of penance-style hard labour for welfare dollars. I want a path out of welfare.

 

[chucky2]

No way would a CCC type program work today. There is far less work ethic in the groups that would participate in a CCC type program, plus we have a large societal shift in shame, aforementioned work ethic, and value of employment vs. sucking on public teat.

Great idea, won't happen. The rediculousness that would have to take place to do a CCC of today would make the point of a CCC...pointless.

Chuck

 

[EagleKeeper]

A CCC type system would have to pay above minimum wage and possibly be a requirement for those that are already on government assistance for a period of time.

However, given the waste that the politicians can generate with taxpayer $$$; the implementation of a CCC type program would be useful.

 

[ussfletcher]

I think that an alternative, though similar system could work. There are tons of things that need to be done that governments don't want to spend money on, such as cleaning up litter or planting flowers that take minimal physical exertion and could easily be done by most people. Instead of paying young men a monthly wage as per CCC, I would rather see some (perhaps even minimal 10-20 hour a week) obligation for those that are relying on social assistance programs to perform these sorts of community services, at minimum.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A living wage in exchange for teaching useful skills seems like a worthy area to explore. I'm however not in favour of penance-style hard labour for welfare dollars. I want a path out of welfare.

What many of those people lack is marketable skills. I'd favor making welfare benefits conditional upon participating in a program like this, assuming the person was able-bodied.

 

[Agent11]

I would rather the DOL pick the 4 technical professions most lacking in employees and offer training as a condition for benefits.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I can agree with EagleKeeper, ussfletcher, and IndyColtsFan's suggestions.

 

[EagleKeeper]

What many of those people lack is marketable skills. I'd favor making welfare benefits conditional upon participating in a program like this, assuming the person was able-bodied.

The CCC enabled workers specialized training. Carpentry, welding, equipment operation, etc.

The same could happen again. Public projects are completed and useful OJT to go out as a journeyman into the private sector.

Unions might complain, but they have a wealth if potential workers being trained.

 

[Zaap]

No, it wouldn't work today. The society has changed too much- not for the better.

Anyone watch Ken Burn's documentary on the Dust Bowl? (Netflix it.)

One thing that really struck me watching that (and by the way just about anything with people from that era interviewed) the freakin' iron clad CHARACTER that people (imposed by the society at large) had back then.

Now that dustbowl shit was a true disaster; a decade-long disaster of a magnitude most people today can't imagine- and yet a theme I noticed through the whole thing was that even having gone through that, people felt reluctant to take "handouts" from government or anyone else. They did so as a last resort, and even then (with their entire lives buried under dirt!) felt guilty about it.

Most people with that kind of unshakable character- you could give them the choice of a tough job vs. a handout and they'd take the tough job and THANK you for it, work their asses off, proudly, and do anything to not be seen as a burden.

Today? Pfft. Forget it.

As a society, we've devolved into anything difficult being beneath us. Everybody is a fucking movie star/rock star/undiscovered genius gift to the world and all mankind. FUCK work! Everyone is too fucking good for that. In fact, even with rampant unemployment, we need congress to bring in millions of unskilled illegal aliens to do all that work bullshit for us. Rockstars don't work- they chill while the slaves toil away for them.

And forget the ground flying into the air and covering your fucking house/choking your lungs for fucking years- today everything is a top magnitude disaster worthy of not only a handout, but everybody better fucking fall to their knees and cry AND bring out their fucking wallet.

Lost your job? "POOR ME! WHERE'S MY CHECK??!!!"

Felt insulted based on race/sex/looked at the wrong way/disagreed with: "WAAAHHHH!!! WHERE'S MY FUCKING CHECK??!!!!!!!!!???!!!"

Anything even resembling an actual *no shit* disaster befalls you? "EVERYONE OWES ME FOR THE REST OF MY DAYS ON THIS PLANET!!!! PAY UP BITCHES!!!!!!!!"



Yeah- the above mindset actually work HARD LABOR at something (!!??!) vs. a handout to fund their rockstar birthright lifestyle?

PFFT! Bend over and reach for your wallet and get out of here with this work/slave labor idea.

 

[Moonbeam]

In another thread the revival of the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) was brought up. It could potentially serve as a program to boost the economy by increasing employment, teaching skills, improving work ethic, etc.

Would such a program even be viable today?

CCC workers were paid $30/month. Adjusted for inflation, according to the official BLS inflation calculator, $30/month is $538.95/month today. Assuming those young men worked at most 40 hours a week, that's about $3.10/hr. And of that, they were forced to send $25/month home to the family, so they only kept about $1.25/week. Adjust for inflation, $22.46/week in spending money.

The CCC slept in tents. They worked hard, doing manual labor. In this age of "jobs that Americans won't do" would such a jobs program even be possible? We have a large segment of people who believe that minimum wage for doing a cushy burger flipping job should be worth $25,000/year, could we actually pay unemployed young men enough to do hard work for less? Especially when you can sit back and do nothing and collect government money?

I'd be 100% in favor of a program like the CCC being revived, but I'm not sure it's even in the realm of possibility, at least not in any form that would look remotely like it was originally. I believe it would just be another highly paid cushy government position, probably with a union.

Thoughts?

I admire you effort to find answers and your attempt to assess their reality.

Thoughts:

Long ago people lived with a more or less certain future, the past would be the future, our place in society fixed. Progress has brought us upward mobility, the chance to follow our dreams, but the uncertainty has reached such levels that the chances seem to be dimming.

Human beings have basic needs and desires and it would seem to me that no society will survive that doesn't meet them. So the question is what are those needs and desires and how do we meet them. Everybody should have decent fool, clean water and clean air, a decent place to live and good friends as well as care when one can't do for oneself. In such a world folk wouldn't have a lot of the fears they do now. On top of such a world one could layer many things, places to express the various abilities that different people possess, a world built for self expression. Healthy minds probably make healthy choices but the world we have created would suggest we may be sick. So maybe we won't go anywhere until we identify our disease.

 

[Triumph]

I'm a huge fan of the CC, growing up in Pennsylvania most of their state parks were built by the CCC and that's where we always went for vacation. I still go to them yearly. And they give a lot of credit to their originators in the park visitor centers and museums. But I think it would be pretty stupid to try and recreate the exact same program today. For one, the skills they learned aren't useful anymore. For instance, who needs an apprenticeship in manual log hewing and lumbering? Most of the skills they taught just aren't in demand today due to antiquated techniques. So it would have to be modernized. Secondly, our society doesn't even give due credit to the modern trades, these folks would be taught a trade only to get out into the real world and be asked, "Well where's your degree? I need to see a 4 year degree in order for you to even be considered for an interview." Which is of course a load of crap, but that's the way it is.

If you wanted to do something in a very similar vein to the CCC, I think you could probably get a bunch of smelly hippies together to go around the country and work on ecologically/environmentally friendly projects that they'd do for a cheap labor rate. But you're not going to find a very wide spread appeal for this.

 

[drebo]

It wouldn't be possible because you can't expect people to work for their handouts. That'd be racist.

 

[boomerang]

It's way past time to declare the war on poverty a failure. With that, major welfare reform must be initiated. There are umpteen jobs that need to be filled. Here, I see signs in the windows of businesses everywhere. The classifieds and craigslist are full of job postings. People don't want to work when they can subsist on the government dole and contribute nothing. Start squeezing those benefits and they will have to gravitate towards work. The jobs are out there and they're waiting to be filled.

It's a pipe dream of course. The left will never embrace a change in their philosophy because it would be admitting they failed. Plus, of course, people not dependent on the government has the very real potential of reducing their power.

It is fun to fantasize how different things could be though. We'll just continue the death spiral until a true leader comes along. If we get one.

 

[notposting]

It's a nice idea, but as other has pointed out, too many things are intertwined to make it possible in today's political climate.

Immigration, we "need" all the illegal immigrants and technical visa holders to do work here because no one here wants to do the work....at the price our businesses want to pay. Which, to me, seems like an obvious "tough shit" for them. Personally, no I don't want to go pick crops by hand for sub minimum wage (or even minimum wage!). Make it worthwhile and I might reconsider.

Welfare/Unemployment/Aid. I think these are all important stopgaps but should be drastically reduced. Of course, this would require things like the above to be fixed. There was a huge outrage here in MI when Snyder got in (our entire state gov went R) and they capped maximum benefits at 48 months iirc. THE OUTRAGE THESE ARE A LIFESTYLE DAMNIT!

Education. Ugh, what a mess. Total revamp needed, and no, Common Core doesn't count. You can't say you listened to everyone involved when you exclude those pesky parents, educators, etc who disagree with you. (needed for long term improvement)

Pretty much everything needs a thorough looking at, unfortunately when I write that I realize that in the eyes of govt, "thorough" means a giant money sucking sound for the rest of us. Just too much to go through, whether it's whiny over-PC-ness, the military-industrial complex and it's budget (add our medical-pharmacological complex at this point), our worthless bribed politicians, a tax code riddled with holes and exceptions for those who can, our bloated legal code (seriously, a rewrite is needed for a lot, not just more patches on a sinking ship, and a rewrite that passes Constitutional muster at that), blah blah blah.

Anyway, yeah, it's a nice idea but a pipe dream.

Also, did anyone else think "Catalyst Control Center" when they saw the thread title?

 

[Jaskalas]

In another thread the revival of the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) was brought up. It could potentially serve as a program to boost the economy by increasing employment, teaching skills, improving work ethic, etc.

Would such a program even be viable today?

Viable? As employment falls under government regulation you can bet that a labor camp program will be a necessity. That our government will "help" the people in need with suitable accommodations such as those found at Foxconn.

I view such labor as our inevitable future while under the boot of central planning and a government's need to care for its people who are suffering.

Look to Health Care as the model to move forward. The system was not optimal for those who viewed Health Care as a right to be enjoyed by all. So our loving government stuck its hand in the cookie jar. Now the system is all but destroyed - they will need another solution. Single Payer. We WILL have this, if they were clever it'd even be modeled after Social Security where the young make payments towards those in need, in exchange for a program to exist for them in the future.

I digress, the point is conditions are ripe for meddling, especially for those with a solution to everything. Labor camps will be our unemployment solution, given how fruitless "shovel ready" jobs were under "stimulus". The more our economy falters, the closer we move towards the People's Republic.