Worst. Groupon experience. EVER. (Final Update: ATOT wins!!!!!)

[MrsBugi]

1. What she posted is a verbal agreement. You are probably talking about an oral agreement.

2. You are in the right. You can get the charge removed AND keep your reviews up. Don't just think about yourself, think about the other people who might get screwed in the future.

Doh. I fail at legalese... Thanks silverpig, I meant an oral agreement, not a verbal one.

I definitely don't want other people to have to go through what I went through. I'd be disappointed if I had to lose my voice for the convenience factor of having the claim withdrawn early... It would just really suck if it somehow affected my credit after all of this.

 

[MrsBugi]

Don't even sign that. She has nothing on you. Has the collection agency responded with proof of the debt? If not she is fucked and she probably knows it.

Done deal, I've definitely decided not to sign.

The collection agency hasn't responded with any proof of debt. I sent them a written letter requesting it last week so they should have received the letter now. They have 30 days to provide me with proof of debt which they won't be able to do since there isn't any, period.

I'm wondering if they'll send me anything in response? Will they send me a letter saying that they can't find proof of debt and that the claim is null and void, or will the disappear forever back into the sleazy hole they crawl out of?

 

[sixone]

Don't sign that!!

The problem with your credit report is only temporary. As soon as the collection agency finds out there is no proof of the "debt", they are legally obligated to clear your credit report. I know it sucks, but be patient.

The problem with her character is far more permanent. You have no idea whether she's already done this to other people. If you don't warn others, who will?

If you must contact her again, do it in writing only. Keep it simple: remind her that everything in your review is true, while her claims are patently false.

Your review is costing her far more than she has tried to extort from you. And that's how the system is supposed to work. Stay strong!!

 

[sixone]

Done deal, I've definitely decided not to sign.

The collection agency hasn't responded with any proof of debt. I sent them a written letter requesting it last week so they should have received the letter now. They have 30 days to provide me with proof of debt which they won't be able to do since there isn't any, period.

I'm wondering if they'll send me anything in response? Will they send me a letter saying that they can't find proof of debt and that the claim is null and void, or will the disappear forever back into the sleazy hole they crawl out of?

They won't contact you, because that might endanger their client's ability to pursue collection with another company.

Check your credit reports after the 30 days is up. If it's still there, file a complaint with each credit reporting agency.

 

[MrsBugi]

Don't sign that!!

The problem with your credit report is only temporary. As soon as the collection agency finds out there is no proof of the "debt", they are legally obligated to clear your credit report. I know it sucks, but be patient.

The problem with her character is far more permanent. You have no idea whether she's already done this to other people. If you don't warn others, who will?

If you must contact her again, do it in writing only. Keep it simple: remind her that everything in your review is true, while her claims are patently false.

Your review is costing her far more than she has tried to extort from you. And that's how the system is supposed to work. Stay strong!!

Thanks for the encouragement sixone! As tempting as it is to "bargain" with her to remove the claim in exchange for taking down my reviews, it does silence me and the entire experience which highlights her unprofessionalism and lack of business ethics in my case.

I also don't want to do or say anything to instigate anything else or further incite her. She's already shown from her actions that she's unethical, unreasonable and petty. I imagine she sees the agreement as a generous "peace offering" on her part so if I outright deny her she might get back and redouble her efforts against me or worse (that would suck!).

I feel comfortable agreeing that if she removes the claim, I will update my reviews accordingly and explain that she ultimately did the right thing (but not delete them!).

 

[sixone]

Thanks for the encouragement sixone! As tempting as it is to "bargain" with her to remove the claim in exchange for taking down my reviews, it does silence me and the entire experience which highlights her unprofessionalism and lack of business ethics in my case.

I also don't want to do or say anything to instigate anything else or further incite her. She's already shown from her actions that she's unethical, unreasonable and petty. I imagine she sees the agreement as a generous "peace offering" on her part so if I outright deny her she might get back and redouble her efforts against me or worse (that would suck!).

I feel comfortable agreeing that if she removes the claim, I will update my reviews accordingly and explain that she ultimately did the right thing (but not delete them!).

That offer is more than fair.

I didn't read the whole thread. Did you file complaints with the Better Business Bureau, Groupon, etc?

 

[MrsBugi]

That offer is more than fair.

I didn't read the whole thread. Did you file complaints with the Better Business Bureau, Groupon, etc?

I feel good about it. Drafting an e-mail suggesting that now!

And yes, thanks to recommendations and suggestions in this thread, I filed complaints with the Better Business Bureau, CA Acupuncture Board, and Groupon. I wrote a letter to the collection agency requesting "proof of debt" and wrote reviews about my experience on Yelp, Google, and MDreviews.

I was preparing documentation to write a formal complaint to the Attorney General but was waiting to hear back from the collection agency first.

 

[sixone]

I feel good about it. Drafting an e-mail suggesting that now!

And yes, thanks to recommendations and suggestions in this thread, I filed complaints with the Better Business Bureau, CA Acupuncture Board, and Groupon. I wrote a letter to the collection agency requesting "proof of debt" and wrote reviews about my experience on Yelp, Google, and MDreviews.

I was preparing documentation to write a formal complaint to the Attorney General but was waiting to hear back from the collection agency first.

Glad to hear it. Please don't promise to drop those complaints, no matter what she offers. Other potential customers/suckers need to know what they're getting into.

 

[MrsBugi]

UPDATE #2: The acupuncturist responded to my complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Here's our exchange:

Complaint Description - Posted 12/14/2011 9:17:38 AM
I saw Heather on 8/9/11 for acupuncture. After the service, she recommended I buy her Chinese herbs. I asked the cost, she said she wasn't sure. I said I might be interested depending on the price. She called me a week later and told me that she had the herbs and they will cost me $200. Once she told me the price, I made an educated decision not to buy the herbs. She became upset and complained that she'd lose money because she already bought them. She offered them to me for $100, then $75. I declined. She falsified an invoice and sent it to me demanding payment. I called her because I never agreed, verbal or written, to purchase anything. She never returned my calls. On 12/13/11, the Rash Curtis collection agency called me demanding payment and threatening to ruin my credit if I don't pay. I am submitting a complaing to BBB because: 1. Heather falsified an invoice for an item I never bought/wanted/agreed to pay for in any way. 2. Heather is nonresponsive and did not return my calls to discuss the issue. 3. Heather turned the bogus invoice over to a collection agency who is now bullying me and attempting to intimidate me into paying money for an item I never agreed to buy in the first place. I am requesting a formal investigation into Heather's practice to see if she is doing this to other customers. Attempting to force someone to pay for an item they never agreed to buy (no written/verbal agreement) is extortion and I am very concerned about Heather's unethical behavior.

Complaint Summary
Heather falsified an invoice for an item I never agreed to buy, sent it to a collection agency, and is attempting to extort me for money.

Resolution Sought
I would like Heather to return my calls to discuss this issue and attempt to find a mutually agreeable solution. I would like Heather to remove the falsified claim from the collection agency so they stop harassing me and threatening to ruin my credit on a bogus claim. I would like Heather to act in a professional and ethical manner and not to force clients to pay for items they never agreed to buy.

Amount In Dispute: $113.00

Company's Response
Company's Initial Response - Posted 12/16/2011
“ believe there was some miscommunication and misunderstanding between consumer and me. I will contact consumer shortly (early next week) to attempt to resolve the matter amicably. I will post again, when this has occurred.

Initial Response Summary
I will be in touch with consumer next week to resolve this amicably.


... Apparently her "amicable" contact was sending me the legal agreement that I posted.

 

[sixone]

... Apparently her "amicable" contact was sending me the legal agreement that I posted.

Send a copy to the BBB. I think they probably won't look very favorably on it, as it continues her extortion.

 

[Spg1]

You do know that you can't trust people on the internet, right?

So you might want to remove your phone number.

 

[gevorg]

You do know that you can't trust people on the internet, right?

So you might want to remove your phone number.

:sneaky: :whiste:

 

[Lifted]

You do know that you can't trust people on the internet, right?

So you might want to remove your phone number.

Yes, before Guyver posts it on 4chan.

 

[richardycc]

why are you still talking to her? the day that she sent your account to the collection aganecy is the day you cease all communication with her. The collection agency will most likely go away, so you can pretty much just move on with your life at this point, but no, you have to keep talking to her trying to resolve something. here is a clue, the matter will resolve itself if you just stop the communication. you are asking for trouble if you continue the communication with her.

 

[Rifter]

Why are people jumping on guyver for quoting that? people have a right to know what happened even if the OP gag orders herself which would be VERY STUPID.

Mods will not delete a post so guyver's quote will remain and make it so this post will make sense when people view it even if OP removes her text from the OP.

 

[MrsBugi]

:sneaky: :whiste:

Thanks gevorg, nice catch. Removed!

 

[MrsBugi]

You do know that you can't trust people on the internet, right?

So you might want to remove your phone number.

Doh. Rookie mistake... Removed!

 

[MrsBugi]

why are you still talking to her? the day that she sent your account to the collection aganecy is the day you cease all communication with her. The collection agency will most likely go away, so you can pretty much just move on with your life at this point, but no, you have to keep talking to her trying to resolve something. here is a clue, the matter will resolve itself if you just stop the communication. you are asking for trouble if you continue the communication with her.

I was still talking to her in the hopes that she would make life easier for everyone involved by doing the right thing and just removing the claim. Maybe be infused by a conscience or the holiday spirit... Just hoping so that I could resolve this without any stress of the "waiting period."

At this point, I'm almost done writing a draft requesting she just do the right thing, remove the claim, and I'll update my reviews saying that she did the right thing after all in the end. I won't be signing the agreement, and hopefully she'll realize that it'd be in her best interest just to remove the claim so she can at least have updated reviews.

 

[sixone]

I was still talking to her in the hopes that she would make life easier for everyone involved by doing the right thing and just removing the claim. Maybe be infused by a conscience or the holiday spirit... Just hoping so that I could resolve this without any stress of the "waiting period."

At this point, I'm almost done writing a draft requesting she just do the right thing, remove the claim, and I'll update my reviews saying that she did the right thing after all in the end. I won't be signing the agreement, and hopefully she'll realize that it'd be in her best interest just to remove the claim so she can at least have updated reviews.

She tried to use your credit report to blackmail you. She's not going to do the right thing until and unless she's forced to.

I think that request is a waste of your time, she probably won't agree. But maybe you need to do it before you'll believe what a scumbag she is.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Do not sign that agreement, particularly since you would be in violation of section 11 immediately if you did so.

"11. Confidentiality

Each party to this Agreement represents, warrants and agrees that it will not knowingly cause to be communicated, divulged, published or disclosed any or all of the terms or conditions of this Agreement to any person, firm, corporation or entity, whether natural or fictitious, other than their attorneys or accountants."

Let her sweat. She's already up shit creek and her pathetic attempts to right the ship just reek of desparation

 

[MrsBugi]

Do not sign that agreement, particularly since you would be in violation of section 11 immediately if you did so.

"11. Confidentiality

Each party to this Agreement represents, warrants and agrees that it will not knowingly cause to be communicated, divulged, published or disclosed any or all of the terms or conditions of this Agreement to any person, firm, corporation or entity, whether natural or fictitious, other than their attorneys or accountants."

Let her sweat. She's already up shit creek and her pathetic attempts to right the ship just reek of desparation

Do ATOT IANAL's count as my lawyers?

J/K... And you're right, I would. After reading through all the responses, I'm definitely NOT going to sign the agreement. I really, really wish we could resolve this amicably (best case scenario, she removes the false invoice from the collection agency and I update my reviews to reflect she worked with me in a professional way after all). Sending out positive thoughts, I'd love to wrap this up so it isn't hanging over me going into the new year... Will keep you updated, thank you for your feedback and support!

 

[DaWhim]

you worry your credit too much.

this lady is an idiot for going that far and send your bill to the collection agency, she has no proof that you agree to the purchase in the first place. you can easily sue her for the damage on your credit she costs. also, it won't be hard to remove those entries on your credit history.

if you are still writing something to her, just let her know you are shopping for a car and will take out a car loan, any increase in the interest rate, you will be the one suing her for (well, as a bluff) .

 

[BoomerD]

IMO, you should cease ALL communications with this person except by certified mail. DO NOT call her again, DO NOT email her again, and DO NOT respond to communications FROM her unless they're by certified mail...and then, reply ONLY by certified mail.
(DO NOT FORGET TO KEEP COPIES OF EVERYTHING!)

You have her sweating now. Her business and professional reputation are on the line because of the shoddy way she's treated you through this.

Wait for validation of the debt by the credit collection agency. DO NOT communicate with them except by certified mail.
(DO NOT FORGET TO KEEP COPIES OF EVERYTHING!)

Send a copy of the "legal mumbo-jumbo" agreement to the BBB and to the state agencies that you've reported her to. It's just more "strong-arm tactics" on her part, and probably won't be looked on favorably.
If you know any attorneys, see if one of them will look it over and help you draft a reply...IF you want to do so, but IMO, you're under no obligation to do that.

All this will take a bit of time...wait, wait, wait, and if you let it, it might stress you a bit over the holiday season, but don't let it. It's not that serious, even if the collectors find a way to validate the debt.
You MAY have to take her to small claims court before this is all over...but that's fairly cheap and easy...and is designed for people in situations like this. NO LIARS LAWYERS allowed.
You may have the option of free/low cost legal advice where you're at. Always worth inquiring.

 

[MrsBugi]

IMO, you should cease ALL communications with this person except by certified mail. DO NOT call her again, DO NOT email her again, and DO NOT respond to communications FROM her unless they're by certified mail...and then, reply ONLY by certified mail.
(DO NOT FORGET TO KEEP COPIES OF EVERYTHING!)

You have her sweating now. Her business and professional reputation are on the line because of the shoddy way she's treated you through this.

Wait for validation of the debt by the credit collection agency. DO NOT communicate with them except by certified mail.
(DO NOT FORGET TO KEEP COPIES OF EVERYTHING!)

Send a copy of the "legal mumbo-jumbo" agreement to the BBB and to the state agencies that you've reported her to. It's just more "strong-arm tactics" on her part, and probably won't be looked on favorably.
If you know any attorneys, see if one of them will look it over and help you draft a reply...IF you want to do so, but IMO, you're under no obligation to do that.

All this will take a bit of time...wait, wait, wait, and if you let it, it might stress you a bit over the holiday season, but don't let it. It's not that serious, even if the collectors find a way to validate the debt.
You MAY have to take her to small claims court before this is all over...but that's fairly cheap and easy...and is designed for people in situations like this. NO LIARS LAWYERS allowed.
You may have the option of free/low cost legal advice where you're at. Always worth inquiring.

I just sent her one final e-mail:

"Heather,

After reviewing the document with my legal counsel, I have been advised not to sign it as is essentially a gag order. If I sign the agreement, I would be waiving all rights to proceed with any actions against you and protect myself in the process. Worst case scenario, suppose paperwork gets misplaced between you and the collections company and their harassment continues. If I signed the agreement, I would not have any recourse. Right now, the document is 100% in your best interest, not in mine. I would like to request you come back with a more fair agreement for both of us that protects each of us equally.

At this point, I have put any further action on hold (i.e. I am refraining from sending a formal letter with copies of all correspondence to the California Attorney General, etc.). I really don't want to escalate the situation any further, and I really do want to work with you to come up with an amicable solution. I would like to propose the following:

I would to respectfully request you to withdraw the bogus invoice for which there is no proof of debt from the Rash Curtis collection agency and to have Rash Curtis cease all collection efforts. When I receive confirmation that the invoice has been withdrawn and collection efforts stop, I will immediately update my reviews to accurately reflect your ultimate helpfulness and professionalism in handling the matter. Right now, my experience has been a negative and stressful one so I have honestly expressed it in my online reviews. When things are resolved amicably and my experience is significantly better/stress reduced, I will update accordingly.

Does this sound fair to you? I welcome your response and am glad that we are communicating and attempting to resolve things together. I hope that we can happily resolve things to move forward in the new year in a positive way, toward success, peace and joy, and leaving negativity behind.

Regards,
Ivy"

Curious to see if she will respond. I'm praying for something to the effect of: "Okay, sounds good, bogus invoice removed, please update your reviews to reflect that."

If it's anything other than that, I won't be contacting her again and if I do, with certified mail. Right now, I have copies of EVERYTHING, from letters sent and mailed to the certified mail receipts.

I can feel her sweating and almost feel a little bad for her. It's the holidays, stressful enough as it is, and it was her choice to go this route but I did go guns blazing (thanks to ATOT!). Hopefully she realizes she was in the wrong and sets out to do right.

If not, I'll be waiting for the validation of the debt by the credit collection agency. I'll keep a copy of the legal agreement and if necessary, send it to the BBB, etc. I don't know any attorneys personally but I will look into low/no-cost options if it's necessary.

At this point, I know it will take some time if she doesn't immediately revoke the claim. I'm getting to the point where I'm trying to let go of the stress and just let things take their natural course to resolution. I'd love to fast track it as evidenced in the e-mail I wrote, but if that doesn't work out, then I'll just sit and wait.

Thanks for the strong feedback, duly noted. I will be keeping copies of everything, and certified mail it will be from this point forward.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Do ATOT IANAL's count as my lawyers?

J/K... And you're right, I would. After reading through all the responses, I'm definitely NOT going to sign the agreement. I really, really wish we could resolve this amicably (best case scenario, she removes the false invoice from the collection agency and I update my reviews to reflect she worked with me in a professional way after all). Sending out positive thoughts, I'd love to wrap this up so it isn't hanging over me going into the new year... Will keep you updated, thank you for your feedback and support!

It doesn't take a lawyer to see the obvious. She was trying to railroad you into making an error by signing that agreement and I wouldn't be surprised if she was aware of this ongoing thread so she could attempt to bring legal proceedings against you.

Honestly, you should get a real lawyer on your side. Get a consultation, you may even be able to get a free one, because a real lawyer should be able to absolutely bitch-slap that woman into reality.

Last resort...Judge Judy. I'd love to see this on TV. It would be the ultimate resolution to an ATOT thread. :biggrin: