highland145
Lifer
- Oct 12, 2009
- 43,973
- 6,337
- 136
Nope. The big 3 accept info and when/if disputed, they request proof from the collector. If proof is not to be had, the derogatory credit line vanishes.
edro
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2002
- 24,326
- 68
- 91
And as others have said, "proof" is a check box in an online submission website.
I have no idea, but it seems plausible... based on the sheer number of inquiries that would have to be made. They can't do it all with actual paper documents.
Ichinisan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 2002
- 28,298
- 1,235
- 136
UPDATES:
1. I called Groupon and they informed me they would investigate the matter further. Haven't heard back yet!
2. I filed a formal complaint online with the Acupuncture Board.
3. I filed a formal complaint with the Better Business Bureau. They e-mailed me confirmation of the complaint and are currently awaiting Heather's response.
4. I mailed certified letters to both Heather and the collection agency. To Heather, a consumer complaint against her requesting a response or else I will contact the Attorney General Office in writing. To the collection agency, a formal written request for Proof of Debt.
5. I wrote reviews about my negative experience on Yelp, Google, and MDreviews.
Now it's a waiting game. I seriously hope my credit won't get messed up in the process and don't see how it could. I'll keep you updated in case Heather responds or anyone else gets back to me... Nothing yet, we'll see how it goes.
Still sorely tempted to go to Heather's office in person but I doubt that would go well since she's avoided my recent attempt to contact her via phone. Frustrated but feeling confident that I'm taking all the necessary steps... Thanks to all for your help and feedback, here's hoping there's some justice in the end!
highland145
Lifer
- Oct 12, 2009
- 43,973
- 6,337
- 136
But are they still edible?Well, let this be a lesson to everyone: Don't trust vegetarians.
Wow I've never seen so many helpful replies in one thread on AT.
And Mrs bugi didn't even have to post a pic.
Bravo AT... Bravo.
And Mrs bugi didn't even have to post a pic.
Bravo AT... Bravo.
highland145
Lifer
- Oct 12, 2009
- 43,973
- 6,337
- 136
MAJOR UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!! I RECEIVED A RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heather sent me the following, formal, kinda scary and intimidating legal document.
Three questions:
1. Do I sign it and agree to the terms within?
2. Do I refuse to sign it and agree verbally to the terms?
3. Do I refuse to sign it and tell her that I'll take down the reviews if she revokes the claim from the collection agency, but that I won't promise not to write an honest review of my experiences?
4. Any other suggestions?
Here is the agreement she sent me (IMO it protects all of her rights and none of mine):
AGREEMENT OF SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE
THIS AGREEMENT OF SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE (“Agreement” is made, entered into, and effective as of December 19, 2011, the (“Effective Date”, between Ivy K (“MRSBUGI” on the one side, and Heather Lounsbury, L.A.c. (“LOUNSBURY” on the other.
RECITALS
A. This agreement arises out of a billing dispute relating to LOUNSBURY’S
August 9, 2011 acupuncture treatment rendered to MRSBUGI.
B. The parties hereto believe that it is in their best inter ests for the various claims referenced herein to be settled on the terms and conditions hereinafter set forth.
AGREEMENT
NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the mutual covenants and agreements contained herein, the parties hereto hereby agree as follows:
1. Obligations of MRSBUGI
(a) MRSBUGI shall hereby relinquish, release, disclaim, renounce and forever waive any and all rights to (1) any claims that LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI or LOUNSBURY’S profes sional relationship with MRSBUGI damaged MRSBUGI in any way, and (2) any real or personal property of LOUNSBURY.
(b) MRSBUGI shall withdraw and remove all negative internet reviews relating to the billing dispute and LOUNSBURY’S August 9, 2011 acupuncture treatment rendered to MRSBUGI, including but not limited to the December 12, 2011 review on Yelp and any comments on the Better Business Bureau’s forums.
2. Obligations of LOUNSBURY.
(a) LOUNSBURY shall withdraw the $110.00 invoice submitted to The Rash Curtis collection agency and agrees to cease all collection efforts.
(b) LOUNSBURY further agrees to waive any amounts owed for past services or missed appointment fees.
3. Release of Claims by MRSBUGI.
MRSBUGI, for and on behalf of herself, and her past, present and future executors, insurers, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, pred ecessors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, success ors, assigns, agents, employees, representa tives and attorneys, and their respective executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, successors, assigns, agents, attorneys and employees, (collectively the “MRSBUGI’S Affiliates” do hereby fully and forever remise, release and discharge LOUNSBURY and each and all of her past, present and future executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predeces sors, successors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, agents, insurers, attorneys, partners, corporations in which LOUNSBURY was or is an officer, director or shareholder, any partnership in which LOUNSBURY was a partner, and any officers, directors and shareholders of any of the foregoing, employees, successors, assigns, insurers and their respective executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, successors, assigns, agents, employees, repre sentatives, beneficiaries, legatees, partners, corporations, officers, directors, shareholders, partnerships, devisees and attorneys, (collectively all are named “LOUNSBURY’S Affiliates”, of and from any and all claims, demands, agree ments, allowances, inheritances, contracts, rights, covenants, actions, suits, causes of action, dispositions, distributions, obli gations, contro versies, debts, costs, expenses, legal fees, accounts, damages, judgments, losses and liabilities, of whatever kind or nature, in law, equity or other wise, whether known or unknown, which MRSBUGI or MRSBUGI'S Affiliates, may have or now has or which any of them hereafter can, shall or may in the future have, for or by reason of any matter, cause or thing whatso ever relating in any manner to the parties herein, including but not limited to, (1) LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI and her professional relationship with MRSBUGI, (2) any real or personal property of LOUNSBURY, and (3) any causes of action which could have been filed relating to LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI and her professional relationship with MRSBUGI. MRSBUGI further agrees that MRSBUGI shall never at any time seek to execute on any judgment in the Action or on any potential claim that pertains or relates in any way to any acts or omissions of LOUNSBURY. MRSBUGI further represents and warrants that there are no liens of any kind that are attached to or are subject to any payments made pursuant to this agreement.
4. No Prior Assignment.
Each of the parties hereto represents and warrants that he, she, or it has the full right, power and authority to enter into the releases set forth in Section 3 above, and that he, she, or it has not assigned, con veyed, encumbered, or in any manner transferred all or any portion of the claims covered by such releases. Each party acknowledges and agrees that this warranty and representation is an essential and material term of such releases, without which the consideration relating hereto would not have been delivered by any party to any other.
5. Legal Advice.
Each of the parties hereto has received independent legal advice from his, her, or its attorneys with respect to the advisability of making the settlement provided for herein and with respect to the advisability of executing this Agreement and the releases set forth above.
6. Waiver of Unknown Claims.
It is expressly understood that Section 1542 of the Civil Code of California provides as follows:
1542. GENERAL RELEASES; EXTENT
A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS OR HER FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH, IF KNOWN BY HIM OR HER, MUST HAVE MATERIALLY AFFECTED HIS OR HER SETTLE MENT WITH THE DEBTOR.
The provisions of Section 1542 of the Civil Code of California and any similar provisions in other jurisdictions, if in any way applicable, are hereby waived by the parties to the Agreement, and each of them, and they acknowledge that this waiver is an essential and mater ial term of the releases set forth above, without which the con sideration relating hereto would not have been delivered by any party to any other.
7. Discovery of Additional Facts.
The parties hereto agree and acknowledge that they, or any of them, may hereafter discover facts different from or in addition to those they, or any of them, now know or believe to be true with respect to the matters released herein, and the parties agree that these releases shall be and will remain effective in all respects notwithstanding such different or additional facts. Except as otherwise expressly provided herein, it is the intention hereby fully, finally and forever to settle and release all such matters, and all claims relative thereto, which do now exist, may exist, or heretofore have existed between the parties hereto and the matters specified herein. In fur ther ance of such intention, except as otherwise expressly provided herein, the releases given herein shall be and will remain in effect as full and complete mutual releases of any such matters notwithstanding the discovery or existence of any such additional claims or facts relative thereto.
8. No Representations.
Except as expressly provided in this Agreement, no party or any officer, agent, employee, representative or attorney of or for any party, has made any statement or representation to any other party regarding any fact relied upon by the other party in entering into this Agreement, and no party has relied upon any statement, representation or promise of any other party, or of any other officer, agent, employee or attorney for the other party, in executing this Agreement or in making the settlement provided for herein, except as expressly stated herein. To the extent that any party relies upon any statement, representation or fact not set forth in this Agreement, it does so at its own risk.
9. Factual Investigation.
Each party has made such investigation of the facts pertaining to this settlement and the releases set forth herein and all matters pertaining hereto as it deems necessary. In entering into this Agreement, each party assumes the risk of any mistake. The releases set forth in this Agreement are intended to be final and binding between the parties hereto, regardless of any claims of misrepresentations, promises made without the intention of perform ing them, mistake of fact or law, or any other circumstances whatsoever.
10. Representations by MRSBUGI.
MRSBUGI hereby represents, warrants and guarantees the following matters to LOUNSBURY as a material induce ment to the agree ment of LOUNSBURY set forth herein:
(1.a) No consent, approval or authorization of a court or any other person or entity is required as a condition to the effectiveness of this Agreement.
(1.b) No bankruptcy or insolvency proceeding is pending against MRSBUGI or any entity to which MRSBUGI is a general partner, officer, or director.
11. Confidentiality
Each party to this Agreement represents, warrants and agrees that it will not knowingly cause to be communicated, divulged, published or disclosed any or all of the terms or conditions of this Agreement to any person, firm, corporation or entity, whether natural or fictitious, other than their attorneys or accountants.
           
If either party to this Agreement receives a request or demand for disclosure of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, the party will promptly notify the other party of the request or demand.   The other party may then, at its own and sole expense, bring whatever action or seek whatever remedy it determines is appropriate to protect the confidentiality of this Agreement.  Any notice, request for consent, consent, or related documentation relevant to this paragraph shall be provided to the party’s current counsel.
The confidentiality clause is mutually beneficial to both parties and no additional consideration is being paid for confidentiality purposes other than an allocation of $100.00.
12. Notices.
Any notice, request, demand, or other com munica tion given pursuant to the terms of this Agreement shall be deemed given upon delivery, if hand delivered, or forty eight (48) hours after deposit in the United States mail, postage prepaid, and sent certified or registered mail, return receipt requested, cor rectly addressed to the addresses of the parties indicated below or at such other address as such party shall in writing have advised the other party.
To Doctor: Heather Lounsbury
2901 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 233
Santa Monica, CA 90403
To Claimant: MRSBUGI
13. Attorneys’ Fees.
Except as otherwise provided herein, if a dispute should arise between the parties including, but not limited to arbitra tion, the prevailing party shall be reimbursed for all reasonable expenses incurred in resolving such dispute, including attorneys’ fees (the reasonableness of such fees shall be determined based on the number of hours spent, customary hourly billing rates, and the reasonableness of the number of hours spent) but exclusive of such amount of attorneys’ fees as shall be a premium for result or for risk of loss under a contingency fee arrangement.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have caused this Agreement to be duly executed as of the Effective Date.
“CLAIMANT”
___________________________________
MRSBUGI
“DOCTOR”
___________________________________
Heather Lounsbury, L.A.c.
Heather sent me the following, formal, kinda scary and intimidating legal document.
Three questions:
1. Do I sign it and agree to the terms within?
2. Do I refuse to sign it and agree verbally to the terms?
3. Do I refuse to sign it and tell her that I'll take down the reviews if she revokes the claim from the collection agency, but that I won't promise not to write an honest review of my experiences?
4. Any other suggestions?
Here is the agreement she sent me (IMO it protects all of her rights and none of mine):
AGREEMENT OF SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE
THIS AGREEMENT OF SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE (“Agreement”
is made, entered into, and effective as of December 19, 2011, the (“Effective Date”, between Ivy K (“MRSBUGI” on the one side, and Heather Lounsbury, L.A.c. (“LOUNSBURY” on the other. RECITALS
A. This agreement arises out of a billing dispute relating to LOUNSBURY’S
August 9, 2011 acupuncture treatment rendered to MRSBUGI.
B. The parties hereto believe that it is in their best inter ests for the various claims referenced herein to be settled on the terms and conditions hereinafter set forth.
AGREEMENT
NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the mutual covenants and agreements contained herein, the parties hereto hereby agree as follows:
1. Obligations of MRSBUGI
(a) MRSBUGI shall hereby relinquish, release, disclaim, renounce and forever waive any and all rights to (1) any claims that LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI or LOUNSBURY’S profes sional relationship with MRSBUGI damaged MRSBUGI in any way, and (2) any real or personal property of LOUNSBURY.
(b) MRSBUGI shall withdraw and remove all negative internet reviews relating to the billing dispute and LOUNSBURY’S August 9, 2011 acupuncture treatment rendered to MRSBUGI, including but not limited to the December 12, 2011 review on Yelp and any comments on the Better Business Bureau’s forums.
2. Obligations of LOUNSBURY.
(a) LOUNSBURY shall withdraw the $110.00 invoice submitted to The Rash Curtis collection agency and agrees to cease all collection efforts.
(b) LOUNSBURY further agrees to waive any amounts owed for past services or missed appointment fees.
3. Release of Claims by MRSBUGI.
MRSBUGI, for and on behalf of herself, and her past, present and future executors, insurers, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, pred ecessors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, success ors, assigns, agents, employees, representa tives and attorneys, and their respective executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, successors, assigns, agents, attorneys and employees, (collectively the “MRSBUGI’S Affiliates”
do hereby fully and forever remise, release and discharge LOUNSBURY and each and all of her past, present and future executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predeces sors, successors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, agents, insurers, attorneys, partners, corporations in which LOUNSBURY was or is an officer, director or shareholder, any partnership in which LOUNSBURY was a partner, and any officers, directors and shareholders of any of the foregoing, employees, successors, assigns, insurers and their respective executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, successors, assigns, agents, employees, repre sentatives, beneficiaries, legatees, partners, corporations, officers, directors, shareholders, partnerships, devisees and attorneys, (collectively all are named “LOUNSBURY’S Affiliates”, of and from any and all claims, demands, agree ments, allowances, inheritances, contracts, rights, covenants, actions, suits, causes of action, dispositions, distributions, obli gations, contro versies, debts, costs, expenses, legal fees, accounts, damages, judgments, losses and liabilities, of whatever kind or nature, in law, equity or other wise, whether known or unknown, which MRSBUGI or MRSBUGI'S Affiliates, may have or now has or which any of them hereafter can, shall or may in the future have, for or by reason of any matter, cause or thing whatso ever relating in any manner to the parties herein, including but not limited to, (1) LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI and her professional relationship with MRSBUGI, (2) any real or personal property of LOUNSBURY, and (3) any causes of action which could have been filed relating to LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI and her professional relationship with MRSBUGI. MRSBUGI further agrees that MRSBUGI shall never at any time seek to execute on any judgment in the Action or on any potential claim that pertains or relates in any way to any acts or omissions of LOUNSBURY. MRSBUGI further represents and warrants that there are no liens of any kind that are attached to or are subject to any payments made pursuant to this agreement.4. No Prior Assignment.
Each of the parties hereto represents and warrants that he, she, or it has the full right, power and authority to enter into the releases set forth in Section 3 above, and that he, she, or it has not assigned, con veyed, encumbered, or in any manner transferred all or any portion of the claims covered by such releases. Each party acknowledges and agrees that this warranty and representation is an essential and material term of such releases, without which the consideration relating hereto would not have been delivered by any party to any other.
5. Legal Advice.
Each of the parties hereto has received independent legal advice from his, her, or its attorneys with respect to the advisability of making the settlement provided for herein and with respect to the advisability of executing this Agreement and the releases set forth above.
6. Waiver of Unknown Claims.
It is expressly understood that Section 1542 of the Civil Code of California provides as follows:
1542. GENERAL RELEASES; EXTENT
A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS OR HER FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH, IF KNOWN BY HIM OR HER, MUST HAVE MATERIALLY AFFECTED HIS OR HER SETTLE MENT WITH THE DEBTOR.
The provisions of Section 1542 of the Civil Code of California and any similar provisions in other jurisdictions, if in any way applicable, are hereby waived by the parties to the Agreement, and each of them, and they acknowledge that this waiver is an essential and mater ial term of the releases set forth above, without which the con sideration relating hereto would not have been delivered by any party to any other.
7. Discovery of Additional Facts.
The parties hereto agree and acknowledge that they, or any of them, may hereafter discover facts different from or in addition to those they, or any of them, now know or believe to be true with respect to the matters released herein, and the parties agree that these releases shall be and will remain effective in all respects notwithstanding such different or additional facts. Except as otherwise expressly provided herein, it is the intention hereby fully, finally and forever to settle and release all such matters, and all claims relative thereto, which do now exist, may exist, or heretofore have existed between the parties hereto and the matters specified herein. In fur ther ance of such intention, except as otherwise expressly provided herein, the releases given herein shall be and will remain in effect as full and complete mutual releases of any such matters notwithstanding the discovery or existence of any such additional claims or facts relative thereto.
8. No Representations.
Except as expressly provided in this Agreement, no party or any officer, agent, employee, representative or attorney of or for any party, has made any statement or representation to any other party regarding any fact relied upon by the other party in entering into this Agreement, and no party has relied upon any statement, representation or promise of any other party, or of any other officer, agent, employee or attorney for the other party, in executing this Agreement or in making the settlement provided for herein, except as expressly stated herein. To the extent that any party relies upon any statement, representation or fact not set forth in this Agreement, it does so at its own risk.
9. Factual Investigation.
Each party has made such investigation of the facts pertaining to this settlement and the releases set forth herein and all matters pertaining hereto as it deems necessary. In entering into this Agreement, each party assumes the risk of any mistake. The releases set forth in this Agreement are intended to be final and binding between the parties hereto, regardless of any claims of misrepresentations, promises made without the intention of perform ing them, mistake of fact or law, or any other circumstances whatsoever.
10. Representations by MRSBUGI.
MRSBUGI hereby represents, warrants and guarantees the following matters to LOUNSBURY as a material induce ment to the agree ment of LOUNSBURY set forth herein:
(1.a) No consent, approval or authorization of a court or any other person or entity is required as a condition to the effectiveness of this Agreement.
(1.b) No bankruptcy or insolvency proceeding is pending against MRSBUGI or any entity to which MRSBUGI is a general partner, officer, or director.
11. Confidentiality
Each party to this Agreement represents, warrants and agrees that it will not knowingly cause to be communicated, divulged, published or disclosed any or all of the terms or conditions of this Agreement to any person, firm, corporation or entity, whether natural or fictitious, other than their attorneys or accountants.
           
If either party to this Agreement receives a request or demand for disclosure of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, the party will promptly notify the other party of the request or demand.   The other party may then, at its own and sole expense, bring whatever action or seek whatever remedy it determines is appropriate to protect the confidentiality of this Agreement.  Any notice, request for consent, consent, or related documentation relevant to this paragraph shall be provided to the party’s current counsel.
The confidentiality clause is mutually beneficial to both parties and no additional consideration is being paid for confidentiality purposes other than an allocation of $100.00.
12. Notices.
Any notice, request, demand, or other com munica tion given pursuant to the terms of this Agreement shall be deemed given upon delivery, if hand delivered, or forty eight (48) hours after deposit in the United States mail, postage prepaid, and sent certified or registered mail, return receipt requested, cor rectly addressed to the addresses of the parties indicated below or at such other address as such party shall in writing have advised the other party.
To Doctor: Heather Lounsbury
2901 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 233
Santa Monica, CA 90403
To Claimant: MRSBUGI
13. Attorneys’ Fees.
Except as otherwise provided herein, if a dispute should arise between the parties including, but not limited to arbitra tion, the prevailing party shall be reimbursed for all reasonable expenses incurred in resolving such dispute, including attorneys’ fees (the reasonableness of such fees shall be determined based on the number of hours spent, customary hourly billing rates, and the reasonableness of the number of hours spent) but exclusive of such amount of attorneys’ fees as shall be a premium for result or for risk of loss under a contingency fee arrangement.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have caused this Agreement to be duly executed as of the Effective Date.
“CLAIMANT”
___________________________________
MRSBUGI
“DOCTOR”
___________________________________
Heather Lounsbury, L.A.c.
This is such a Groupon story.
Maybe she just had a bad experience overall and ended up losing money on the deal?
Maybe she just had a bad experience overall and ended up losing money on the deal?
P.S. You guys are the best!!!!! Thank you so much for all of the incredible advice and feedback. So useful and valuable... I wouldn't have been able to get to this point without the information and support provided in this thread. So... Thank you. Thank you so much for this community and for your help during the holidays (and so many other times). It's going to be a very Merry Christmas now that I'm really close to not having to worry about this pain again!!!!
lol, remove all negative reviews? that sounds alot like blackmail.
I'm going to try and force you to buy nasty hair gel, then when you don't want it, I'll still charge you for it.
when you bitch about it, I'll file a lawsuit and make it complicated so that you would rather erase all negative reviews.
then if i find negative reviews still in the cache' of the internet which are searchable, I'll sue you for contempt of court order
sounds like an awesome deal :thumbsdown:
I'm going to try and force you to buy nasty hair gel, then when you don't want it, I'll still charge you for it.
when you bitch about it, I'll file a lawsuit and make it complicated so that you would rather erase all negative reviews.
then if i find negative reviews still in the cache' of the internet which are searchable, I'll sue you for contempt of court order
sounds like an awesome deal :thumbsdown:
Right? The reviews are completely a completely honest account of my experience and there's no denying what happened. She knows it and I know it.
I want the bogus claim revoked from the collection agency so I can move on with my life without having my credit negatively affected by her extortion attempt.
At this point, I'm considering whether the convenience factor of having her remove it directly is worth losing my voice and ability to express my opinion/experience about what happened.
PottedMeat
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2002
- 12,363
- 475
- 126
so is she an actual doctor or 'doctor'?
did a lawyer write that or did she cook that up?
at this point i'd think about getting a lawyer to smack this shit down. ( i have no idea how much it would cost but maybe this thing is cheap, but certainly more than the ~$110 it's costing you now ) it'd be worth it to have the negative reviews still up and her out the money in herbal junk.
Is that where her "legal agreement" is from?
That's what I'm leaning towards - A verbal agreement. She revokes the claim, I confirm it with the collection agency, then I remove my reviews. I don't understand why a legal document is necessary. If she upholds her end of the deal, I'll uphold mine. And if she ever goes to collections again, I can respond again (I think that right would be revoked if I signed the agreement).
Where are the ATOT lawyers?
I may sign just to get the bitch out of the way, but that doc is bullshit.
Btw, her lawyer probably won't bite but you can amend that crap and tell her that's the document you're willing to sign. Use your common sense, and I agree sometimes the convenience factor does trump principle.
I may sign just to get the bitch out of the way, but that doc is bullshit.
Btw, her lawyer probably won't bite but you can amend that crap and tell her that's the document you're willing to sign. Use your common sense, and I agree sometimes the convenience factor does trump principle.
Yep. Which would be a shame, since it has a lot of valuable information that would potentially help others.
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