Worst. Groupon experience. EVER. (Final Update: ATOT wins!!!!!)

[OutHouse]

post the update in your OP so we dont have to go digging for it.

 

[MrsBugi]

post the update in your OP so we dont have to go digging for it.

Thanks for the tip, doing so now.

 

[micrometers]

it was pretty stupid of her to call collections on such a small sum on a first time customer of all things.

I suspect that the Groupon deal put her under a great deal of stress. I've heard of stories of Groupon wiping out a small business's profit for an entire year.

But of course for service businesses like acupuncture, she likely made money since the volume increased and the only real costs are her time.

 

[OutHouse]

i read it and you will sign over all your rights and put a gag order on yourself.

Do not sign shit period EVER without a lawyer reading it first

 

[OutHouse]

so is she an actual doctor or 'doctor'?

did a lawyer write that or did she cook that up?

at this point i'd think about getting a lawyer to smack this shit down. ( i have no idea how much it would cost but maybe this thing is cheap, but certainly more than the ~$110 it's costing you now ) it'd be worth it to have the negative reviews still up and her out the money in herbal junk.

acupuncturist in the west are docs like chiropractors. acupuncturist is a 4 year program with no undergrad requirement work at all. a HS dropout can become a acupuncturist if they pay to go through the program.

WHAT DO THE INITIALS "O.M.D." STAND FOR?
A. The initials O.M.D. stand for "Oriental Medical Doctor", this is an academic title (similar to Ph.D.). This title may only be used by those licensed acupuncturists who possess an earned doctorate degree, from a California accredited, approved and/or authorized educational institute as set forth in Section 94760 of the California Education Code. These initials must be used in conjunction with the representation that the individual is a licensed acupuncturist as set forth in Business & Professions Code, Section 4927 and 4937, the California Code of Regulations, Title 16, Section 1399.456, and Attorney General Opinion No. 87-103 .
http://www.acupuncture.ca.gov/consumers/consumer_faqs.shtml

no a lawyer did not draw that up. she did that with some online legal form service that she paid $19.99 for

if she has not completed a docorate degree and she is calling herself a Doctor she can get some serious jail time.

 

[MrsBugi]

it was pretty stupid of her to call collections on such a small sum on a first time customer of all things.

I suspect that the Groupon deal put her under a great deal of stress. I've heard of stories of Groupon wiping out a small business's profit for an entire year.

But of course for service businesses like acupuncture, she likely made money since the volume increased and the only real costs are her time.

Agreed. She definitely didn't handle things professionally by any means, especially concerning for someone who sticks needles into peoples' bodies for a living.

I've heard of Groupon helping some companies succeed by bringing in new business, and I've known of them hurting others. I always tip on the original, non-Groupon price of the service if that helps at all, and I actually tipped Heather despite her mediocre service because I know that the companies often take a hit in the hopes of getting new clientele.

It's a shame it got to this point but I'm honestly grateful for the experience because now I know how to handle a similar situation should it come up in the future (God forbid) and I'm not going to buy any more Groupons for an acupuncturist again!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

No way would I sign that.

 

[OutHouse]

Is that where her "legal agreement" is from?

That's what I'm leaning towards - A verbal agreement. She revokes the claim, I confirm it with the collection agency, then I remove my reviews. I don't understand why a legal document is necessary. If she upholds her end of the deal, I'll uphold mine. And if she ever goes to collections again, I can respond again (I think that right would be revoked if I signed the agreement).

honestly i would have NO contact from her until you hear back from all the agencies you wrote to. if you really want to talk to her then you better do it through legal council and legal council only. you hold the power not her. she is practically begging you to shutup with sending you that doc.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Don't sign shit without a lawyer

 

[Lifted]

Couple of suggestions (IANAL)

1) You should really stop communicating, or trying to communicate, directly with her via phone calls, answering machine, etc., unless you are recording those conversations. Even then it's best to do everything in writing since she's proven herself to be completely untrustworthy.

2) I see no reason for you to sign this. Her collections shenanigans leave her liable to all sorts of repercussions, and by signing this you are waving all rights to proceed with any actions against her. Suppose paperwork gets misplaced between her and the collections company, and your credit score takes a nice ding as a result. You should do as was suggested, amend and change the document so it is 100% in your best interest, return it to her, and let her sign it. She is the one with who is trying to dig out of this hole she dug herself, and she ultimately has all of the liability regarding your credit score and slander. Either that or throw it in the trash and let her come back with a better agreement. You really don't have much to worry about at this point, especially once no proof of this debt is presented in the next 30 days. Once that comes to light, she will have no power over you in getting you to remove those reviews, and that is why you received this agreement so quickly and out of the blue.

 

[OutHouse]

also i would remove all references to her name in this thread so its not searchable. especially in that doc you posted.

 

[Squisher]

That is quite a document she wants you to sign, I can understand your reluctance.

 

[guyver01]

Heather sent me the following, formal, kinda scary and intimidating legal document.

Three questions:

1. Do I sign it and agree to the terms within?

2. Do I refuse to sign it and agree verbally to the terms?

3. Do I refuse to sign it and tell her that I'll take down the reviews if she revokes the claim from the collection agency, but that I won't promise not to write an honest review of my experiences?

4. Any other suggestions?

Here is the agreement she sent me (IMO it protects all of her rights and none of mine):

AGREEMENT OF SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE

THIS AGREEMENT OF SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE (“Agreement”) is made, entered into, and effective as of December 19, 2011, the (“Effective Date”), between Ivy K (“MRSBUGI”) on the one side, and Heather Lounsbury, L.A.c. (“LOUNSBURY”) on the other.


RECITALS

A. This agreement arises out of a billing dispute relating to LOUNSBURY’S
August 9, 2011 acupuncture treatment rendered to MRSBUGI.

B. The parties hereto believe that it is in their best interests for the various claims referenced herein to be settled on the terms and conditions hereinafter set forth.

AGREEMENT

NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the mutual covenants and agreements contained herein, the parties hereto hereby agree as follows:

1. Obligations of MRSBUGI

(a) MRSBUGI shall hereby relinquish, release, disclaim, renounce and forever waive any and all rights to (1) any claims that LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI or LOUNSBURY’S professional relationship with MRSBUGI damaged MRSBUGI in any way, and (2) any real or personal property of LOUNSBURY.

(b) MRSBUGI shall withdraw and remove all negative internet reviews relating to the billing dispute and LOUNSBURY’S August 9, 2011 acupuncture treatment rendered to MRSBUGI, including but not limited to the December 12, 2011 review on Yelp and any comments on the Better Business Bureau’s forums.


2. Obligations of LOUNSBURY.

(a) LOUNSBURY shall withdraw the $110.00 invoice submitted to The Rash Curtis collection agency and agrees to cease all collection efforts.

(b) LOUNSBURY further agrees to waive any amounts owed for past services or missed appointment fees.

3. Release of Claims by MRSBUGI.

MRSBUGI, for and on behalf of herself, and her past, present and future executors, insurers, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, successors, assigns, agents, employees, representatives and attorneys, and their respective executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, successors, assigns, agents, attorneys and employees, (collectively the “MRSBUGI’S Affiliates”) do hereby fully and forever remise, release and discharge LOUNSBURY and each and all of her past, present and future executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, successors, beneficiaries, legatees, devisees, agents, insurers, attorneys, partners, corporations in which LOUNSBURY was or is an officer, director or shareholder, any partnership in which LOUNSBURY was a partner, and any officers, directors and shareholders of any of the foregoing, employees, successors, assigns, insurers and their respective executors, guardians, conservators, trustees, heirs, predecessors, successors, assigns, agents, employees, representatives, beneficiaries, legatees, partners, corporations, officers, directors, shareholders, partnerships, devisees and attorneys, (collectively all are named “LOUNSBURY’S Affiliates”), of and from any and all claims, demands, agreements, allowances, inheritances, contracts, rights, covenants, actions, suits, causes of action, dispositions, distributions, obligations, controversies, debts, costs, expenses, legal fees, accounts, damages, judgments, losses and liabilities, of whatever kind or nature, in law, equity or otherwise, whether known or unknown, which MRSBUGI or MRSBUGI'S Affiliates, may have or now has or which any of them hereafter can, shall or may in the future have, for or by reason of any matter, cause or thing whatsoever relating in any manner to the parties herein, including but not limited to, (1) LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI and her professional relationship with MRSBUGI, (2) any real or personal property of LOUNSBURY, and (3) any causes of action which could have been filed relating to LOUNSBURY’S treatment of MRSBUGI and her professional relationship with MRSBUGI. MRSBUGI further agrees that MRSBUGI shall never at any time seek to execute on any judgment in the Action or on any potential claim that pertains or relates in any way to any acts or omissions of LOUNSBURY. MRSBUGI further represents and warrants that there are no liens of any kind that are attached to or are subject to any payments made pursuant to this agreement.

4. No Prior Assignment.

Each of the parties hereto represents and warrants that he, she, or it has the full right, power and authority to enter into the releases set forth in Section 3 above, and that he, she, or it has not assigned, conveyed, encumbered, or in any manner transferred all or any portion of the claims covered by such releases. Each party acknowledges and agrees that this warranty and representation is an essential and material term of such releases, without which the consideration relating hereto would not have been delivered by any party to any other.

5. Legal Advice.

Each of the parties hereto has received independent legal advice from his, her, or its attorneys with respect to the advisability of making the settlement provided for herein and with respect to the advisability of executing this Agreement and the releases set forth above.

6. Waiver of Unknown Claims.

It is expressly understood that Section 1542 of the Civil Code of California provides as follows:

1542. GENERAL RELEASES; EXTENT

A GENERAL RELEASE DOES NOT EXTEND TO CLAIMS WHICH THE CREDITOR DOES NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT TO EXIST IN HIS OR HER FAVOR AT THE TIME OF EXECUTING THE RELEASE, WHICH, IF KNOWN BY HIM OR HER, MUST HAVE MATERIALLY AFFECTED HIS OR HER SETTLEMENT WITH THE DEBTOR.

The provisions of Section 1542 of the Civil Code of California and any similar provisions in other jurisdictions, if in any way applicable, are hereby waived by the parties to the Agreement, and each of them, and they acknowledge that this waiver is an essential and material term of the releases set forth above, without which the consideration relating hereto would not have been delivered by any party to any other.

7. Discovery of Additional Facts.

The parties hereto agree and acknowledge that they, or any of them, may hereafter discover facts different from or in addition to those they, or any of them, now know or believe to be true with respect to the matters released herein, and the parties agree that these releases shall be and will remain effective in all respects notwithstanding such different or additional facts. Except as otherwise expressly provided herein, it is the intention hereby fully, finally and forever to settle and release all such matters, and all claims relative thereto, which do now exist, may exist, or heretofore have existed between the parties hereto and the matters specified herein. In furtherance of such intention, except as otherwise expressly provided herein, the releases given herein shall be and will remain in effect as full and complete mutual releases of any such matters notwithstanding the discovery or existence of any such additional claims or facts relative thereto.

8. No Representations.

Except as expressly provided in this Agreement, no party or any officer, agent, employee, representative or attorney of or for any party, has made any statement or representation to any other party regarding any fact relied upon by the other party in entering into this Agreement, and no party has relied upon any statement, representation or promise of any other party, or of any other officer, agent, employee or attorney for the other party, in executing this Agreement or in making the settlement provided for herein, except as expressly stated herein. To the extent that any party relies upon any statement, representation or fact not set forth in this Agreement, it does so at its own risk.

9. Factual Investigation.

Each party has made such investigation of the facts pertaining to this settlement and the releases set forth herein and all matters pertaining hereto as it deems necessary. In entering into this Agreement, each party assumes the risk of any mistake. The releases set forth in this Agreement are intended to be final and binding between the parties hereto, regardless of any claims of misrepresentations, promises made without the intention of performing them, mistake of fact or law, or any other circumstances whatsoever.

10. Representations by MRSBUGI.

MRSBUGI hereby represents, warrants and guarantees the following matters to LOUNSBURY as a material inducement to the agreement of LOUNSBURY set forth herein:

(1.a) No consent, approval or authorization of a court or any other person or entity is required as a condition to the effectiveness of this Agreement.

(1.b) No bankruptcy or insolvency proceeding is pending against MRSBUGI or any entity to which MRSBUGI is a general partner, officer, or director.

11. Confidentiality

Each party to this Agreement represents, warrants and agrees that it will not knowingly cause to be communicated, divulged, published or disclosed any or all of the terms or conditions of this Agreement to any person, firm, corporation or entity, whether natural or fictitious, other than their attorneys or accountants.

If either party to this Agreement receives a request or demand for disclosure of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, the party will promptly notify the other party of the request or demand. The other party may then, at its own and sole expense, bring whatever action or seek whatever remedy it determines is appropriate to protect the confidentiality of this Agreement. Any notice, request for consent, consent, or related documentation relevant to this paragraph shall be provided to the party’s current counsel.

The confidentiality clause is mutually beneficial to both parties and no additional consideration is being paid for confidentiality purposes other than an allocation of $100.00.

12. Notices.

Any notice, request, demand, or other communication given pursuant to the terms of this Agreement shall be deemed given upon delivery, if hand delivered, or fortyeight (48) hours after deposit in the United States mail, postage prepaid, and sent certified or registered mail, return receipt requested, correctly addressed to the addresses of the parties indicated below or at such other address as such party shall in writing have advised the other party.

To Doctor: Heather Lounsbury
2901 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 233
Santa Monica, CA 90403

To Claimant: MRSBUGI

13. Attorneys’ Fees.

Except as otherwise provided herein, if a dispute should arise between the parties including, but not limited to arbitration, the prevailing party shall be reimbursed for all reasonable expenses incurred in resolving such dispute, including attorneys’ fees (the reasonableness of such fees shall be determined based on the number of hours spent, customary hourly billing rates, and the reasonableness of the number of hours spent) but exclusive of such amount of attorneys’ fees as shall be a premium for result or for risk of loss under a contingency fee arrangement.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have caused this Agreement to be duly executed as of the Effective Date.

“CLAIMANT”
___________________________________
MRSBUGI

“DOCTOR”
___________________________________
Heather Lounsbury, L.A.c.

just so ya can't delete everything... quoting for posterity.

 

[Lifted]

just so ya can't delete everything... quoting for posterity.

I assume she would ask for the entire thread to be deleted, but regardless, you're an asshole.

 

[gevorg]

Don't sign, the collection agency still has to prove debt, and removing all negative reviews from internet might be hard to do at this point. Maybe change the clause to update internet reviews, where possible, to reflect her handling of the situation.

If she continues to intimidate, see if you can get the story out to local newspaper/news/etc.

 

[OutHouse]

I assume she would ask for the entire thread to be deleted, but regardless, you're an asshole.

yea i agree guyver01 wtf are you trying to prove?

 

[guyver01]

yea i agree guyver01 wtf are you trying to prove?

the internet is FOREVER

don't worry... not everyone is fooled by HappyKitten/Dezign/Whatever name she's using this week.

 

[silverpig]

1. What she posted is a verbal agreement. You are probably talking about an oral agreement.

2. You are in the right. You can get the charge removed AND keep your reviews up. Don't just think about yourself, think about the other people who might get screwed in the future.

 

[MrsBugi]

honestly i would have NO contact from her until you hear back from all the agencies you wrote to. if you really want to talk to her then you better do it through legal council and legal council only. you hold the power not her. she is practically begging you to shutup with sending you that doc.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'd love to have this resolved before the holidays so I won't have any additional stress as a result of it. Unfortunately I don't have legal council (just armchair lawyers with my Dad and some awesome ones here in AT) and I just want to get things over with.

The two options I'm drawn to most:

1. Responding (in writing) and refusing to sign the document (explaining because I lose all rights and she retains all of hers), but agreeing to take down the reviews if she removes the false claim with the collection agency.

2. Doing nothing and not responding at all, or responding by saying I will wait for the results of the agencies to come in. I assume it'll eventually be thrown out after all is said and done but I could circumvent the 30-60 day waiting period by working with her amicably.

 

[jlee]

Seems that she realized that she's in a big pile of poop now and is backpedaling as fast as she can. I wouldn't sign a thing...

 

[abaez]

Don't even sign that. She has nothing on you. Has the collection agency responded with proof of the debt? If not she is fucked and she probably knows it.

 

[MrsBugi]

Couple of suggestions (IANAL)

1) You should really stop communicating, or trying to communicate, directly with her via phone calls, answering machine, etc., unless you are recording those conversations. Even then it's best to do everything in writing since she's proven herself to be completely untrustworthy.

2) I see no reason for you to sign this. Her collections shenanigans leave her liable to all sorts of repercussions, and by signing this you are waving all rights to proceed with any actions against her. Suppose paperwork gets misplaced between her and the collections company, and your credit score takes a nice ding as a result. You should do as was suggested, amend and change the document so it is 100% in your best interest, return it to her, and let her sign it. She is the one with who is trying to dig out of this hole she dug herself, and she ultimately has all of the liability regarding your credit score and slander. Either that or throw it in the trash and let her come back with a better agreement. You really don't have much to worry about at this point, especially once no proof of this debt is presented in the next 30 days. Once that comes to light, she will have no power over you in getting you to remove those reviews, and that is why you received this agreement so quickly and out of the blue.

Thanks, Lifted. I'll definitely stop trying to contact her via phone, and if anything I'll limit contact to e-mail only where there's a record of it. I really appreciate your rationalization of why I shouldn't sign the agreement, you articulated everything perfectly and nailed my hesitation for doing so.

Do you think it'd be okay to write her back explaining why I'm not going to sign (basically with your immaculate, elegant verbage if you don't mind) and requesting she remove the claim from the collection agency in exchange for my removing the reviews I've posted this far with no formal "agreement" in place, just trust? Or I can just suck it up and wait since the collection agency will find no proof of debt to send back to me, rendering the situation null.

 

[MrsBugi]

i read it and you will sign over all your rights and put a gag order on yourself.

Do not sign shit period EVER without a lawyer reading it first

Thank you for taking the time to read through the entire agreement, OutHouse. I really appreciate your time and input, hopefully karma sends some awesomeness your way. Point duly noted, this is the first time I've ever been in a situation like this and I'll be sure to consult a lawyer before signing anything in the future (hopefully nothing else will come up that would ever require one, knock on wood!).

At this point, I've decided that I definitely won't be signing it.

 

[MrsBugi]

also i would remove all references to her name in this thread so its not searchable. especially in that doc you posted.

Once again, feedback appreciated. I'll do so now but I don't think I can edit guyver's quote of it.

 

[MrsBugi]

the internet is FOREVER

don't worry... not everyone is fooled by HappyKitten/Dezign/Whatever name she's using this week.

I think we all know that for the most part, the internet is forever.

If it comes to it, I'll ask the Mods to please delete and hopefully they'll give it consideration.

I'm not sure where your bitterness is coming from, guyver. How am I trying to "fool" you or anyone else? Let go of things that happened 5-10 years ago and life will be lighter and better... Regardless, happy holidays to you and your loved ones.