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Work "voluntary" overtime - or go to jail! (Canada)

Alberta is more likely to vote in "pro-business" types.

Would really like to see the order itself. News reports contain a collection of non-educational facts. You can read the newspaper and devour whatever "media" you chose. You will not gain a specialized education.
 
It's not uncommon for workers to be fired for refusing to work over time, even here in the US of A, but jailed? 😵

If that were in the US, I'd suspect those "scaffold monkeys" (yes, it's a trade nickname for the scaffold crew) might be made up of immigrants, legal or not...folks not particularly well-versed in labor law...being Canuckistan...not sure.

I do suspect the "flyer" being circulated might just be company bullshit trying to force them to work. (notice the article mentioned that the scaffolders were left out of an agreement to pay an extra $150/day?)
 
Sadly not surprising given the direction of this country. And with the government doing everything possible to make life unaffordable it's not like you can just quit. There is more and more overreach into our lives these days by both the government and employers. They basically own us.
 
Sadly not surprising given the direction of this country. And with the government doing everything possible to make life unaffordable it's not like you can just quit. There is more and more overreach into our lives these days by both the government and employers. They basically own us.
You realize that is all in your head and unless there are soldiers in the street, freedom is all attitude, right? You can choose to go through life feeling oppressed or you can just live your life and stop feeding yourself self-defeating bullshit.
 
Sadly not surprising given the direction of this country. And with the government doing everything possible to make life unaffordable it's not like you can just quit. There is more and more overreach into our lives these days by both the government and employers. They basically own us.
I thought Alberta was your type of province...
 
I thought Alberta was your type of province...

They're probably the closest tbh, but still not perfect. No political side is perfect really. They're all out for your money at the end of the day. Even freedom wise it's not that much better. They jailed pastors there during covid. Imagine it being illegal to run a church. Not very free.
 
They're probably the closest tbh, but still not perfect. No political side is perfect really. They're all out for your money at the end of the day. Even freedom wise it's not that much better. They jailed pastors there during covid. Imagine it being illegal to run a church. Not very free.
You crownies probably should make a clean break and join the rebels. 😛

No President can do the Trudeau. 😛

Although I curious as to how differently the Canadians do things in terms of law. Obviously in general, it's similar because it's all English...but still....
 
They're probably the closest tbh, but still not perfect. No political side is perfect really. They're all out for your money at the end of the day. Even freedom wise it's not that much better. They jailed pastors there during covid. Imagine it being illegal to run a church. Not very free.
This is the kind of faux oppression I was mentioning above. Pastors weren't jailed for "running a church". That's just bullshit you feed yourself.
 
Back in 2018, i had 2 non consecutive days and a further 11 work days the following month approved for holidays and saw the person in charge introduce them in to the computer, after which she told me something like "be assured: you'll have those days". However, and STILL without any paper by them stating that i had in fact those days off, i tried getting it AGAIN a few days before the 1st 2 of those days and, and was told something like "you can't go those days".

Since the company had a history of doing this before, i got fed up and flatly refused to do ANY overtime saying "i can't go that day" whenever asked, and did so until late last year. Then i was called to a meeting "upstairs" along with other coworkers that were also, for whatever reason, not doing overtime. I explained WHY i adopted the stance i was taking and was prepared to continue doing it ... but then i was pointed to the current legislation where it states that "if the company is having financial difficulties", THEY CAN FORCE ME to work overtime, up to 200 hours per year or face disciplinary issues and possible termination.

Here in Portugal, overtime IN METALLURGY works as follows:

- 1 extra day is valued @ 200% of a normal day
- 1 extra day ON SUNDAY is valued @ 200% of a normal day PLUS an extra holiday day

Since i don't have access to their financials, i have to take their word for it, so i've been putting all my overtime in the hour bank and had, if my math is correct, 146.5 hours. I have however been using some of them throughout the year and i'm actually closer to the 200 hours than that. When i do reach the 200 hour mark, they may ask me to do more all they want but i'll be busy enjoying using the hours i've accumulated working overtime OFF WORK. For example, i have 9 holidays + 10 overtime days (that's a total of 79 hours from the hour bank) worth of vacation coming up ...
 
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This is the kind of faux oppression I was mentioning above. Pastors weren't jailed for "running a church". That's just bullshit you feed yourself.
Deprivation of life and property always has a prima facie legitimacy to debate. It is correct that they were not jailed for running a church. It is however, a worthy legal debate on whether jailing is a justifiable punishment for defiance of particular laws.
 
Alberta is more likely to vote in "pro-business" types.

Would really like to see the order itself. News reports contain a collection of non-educational facts. You can read the newspaper and devour whatever "media" you chose. You will not gain a specialized education.

Here you go:
GE_08829.pdf (gov.ab.ca)

TLDR: Workers circulated a letter telling everyone to refuse to work overtime in order to get some incentives from employer. Since they are already under a collective agreement, the board deemed this as an illegal strike action.

OP, how is this socialist? Seems more like facism to me.

edit: I neglected put my opinion.
I believe this is an OK decision assuming what is in the decision is 100% true. Workers agreed to work under the collective agreement. You can't just suddenly decide that agreement is not good enough. They can take up new overtime incentives when the agreement expires and negotiate a new one (or they can quit).
 
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They're probably the closest tbh, but still not perfect. No political side is perfect really. They're all out for your money at the end of the day. Even freedom wise it's not that much better. They jailed pastors there during covid. Imagine it being illegal to run a church. Not very free.

They broke the law that 99% of all other Churches willingly obeyed. Fuck them.
 
Socialism/fascism are irrelevant word opiates for non-lawyers to waste their time over. Either set of "generic principles to chase" can result in laws that justify "coerced" labor depending on the circumstances.

Both of the -isms are better described as "allowing state coercion and other forms of tyranny are justified if it in the aim of achieving said generic principles". Socialism is the chase of a economic cure through force of government in its essence, put in a moral window dressing to mask state misconduct in pursuing that end; this not the book definition but it is what happens in practice as government ownership is just one form of such intervention to achieve the aforementioned general aim.

The matter here is that a judging authority has deemed their strike illegal due to improper procedure. Illegal just means a law is violated and does not in itself mean that the state of affairs is fair, ethical, etc nor that the matter not worth debate in another forum or pushing the system to its limits by continuing the illegal strike and "triggering the system", which the English system allows at a cost but other systems can nip in the bud much more forcefully and quickly.
 
Here is a novel idea. Hire more people.

Just because you don't want to hire more people doesn't give you the right to force overtime on employees.

I don't give a shit if its 200% pay. What good is the money if you end up with long term health issues that can be common in physically demanding jobs.
 
Socialism/fascism are irrelevant word opiates for non-lawyers to waste their time over. Either set of "generic principles to chase" can result in laws that justify "coerced" labor depending on the circumstances.
Um, no. Fascism is forcing and/or coercion. Socialism is not.

Fascism is authoritarian control under an all-powerful ruler. A fascist ruler is basically a dictator that can tell people what they can or cannot do.

Socialism is state ownership of businesses with decentralized voting to determine outcomes (without centralized dictatorial capabilities or power), strong unions, and unlimited strike capabilities. Socialism is pretty much the opposite of political coercion.
 
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I'm trying to figure out why he thinks this is 'socialism'. This is what is wrong with this country. Clearly our education system failed us long before 2020.

Yes, I think it needs another post pointing this out, because....what in the actual f?
 
Um, no. Fascism is forcing and/or coercion. Socialism is not.

Fascism is authoritarian control under an all-powerful ruler. A fascist ruler is basically a dictator that can tell people what they can or cannot do.

Socialism is state ownership of businesses with decentralized voting to determine outcomes (without centralized dictatorial capabilities or power), strong unions, and unlimited strike capabilities. Socialism is pretty much the opposite of political coercion.
The origins of socialism never considered rights or any other matters of actual law in practice. Its intellectual foundation was curing the economic ills of the world by any means necessary. Westerners, however--especially those spoiled rotten with English common law--presume their governments to have self-checking mechanisms to not commit unconscionable acts; an extremely stupid, ignorant, and naive presumption. Pursuit of policy to cure economic ills doesn't mean policy or government entities like police or military cannot be also coercive. The socialist presumes himself and his government ideology to be innately conscionable through the emotional basis of curing economic ills, and not by the design and actions of the laws, organizations, etc themselves. For the laws to stand, the foundation must be protected, and "foundation protection" is justified by "for the economic benefits".


Fascism is based on the beliefs of:
1. Nationalism
2. A proper social order(often racially based)
3. some messianic ruler

can cure the perceived ills of society.

But again, none of these elements behind fascism concern the government itself being able to act or being systemically prevented from acting. Thus, fascism a belief system can also only be described as "ends justify the means". Just that the means are a hodgepodge groups of things rather than one.
The messianic ruler was a matter of result in Germany and Italy, in which said politician worked the system in order end systemic deposing of the leader. Little appreciation or attention is paid to how axioms present presented an exploit or that the American system is exceptionally more robust than other "democracies" at stopping an attempt to establish a dictatorship; not because of voting, but because of the permanent rules present.

It only stands naturally, that to achieve whatever vision some -ism follower wants, power must be obtained and then maintained in perpetuity. Without a systemic chokehold on government, maintenance of power can go as heavy-handed and nosy as government wants.

Decentralized voting is an external artifact not bothered with in socialist creeds; it happens to be a feature because many societies just happen to adopt some sort voting-based system to select rulers and the revolutionary-based method is not exactly reliable or acceptable. Nor is it even relevant in matters where populace consents to permanent mono-party rule. Nor is it the primary means of rights enforcements. Laws outlive the politicians or judges that help set down the rules. It is the courts and being able to file suit that really enforces rights , not some -ism.

Welfare programs are claimed by socialists, but it only expands the cost of the government, not its legal powers over people except for the increase in tax dollars.
 
You realize that is all in your head and unless there are soldiers in the street, freedom is all attitude, right? You can choose to go through life feeling oppressed or you can just live your life and stop feeding yourself self-defeating bullshit.


He's too busy looking for food production facility fires.
 
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