Work related issues.......

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK

My question is that is this legal. Do they have the right to do this? What are your opinions on this issue?

yes
yes
love it or leave it

Are you saying this because you know or because its how you feel?

Say I own a business and I hire you to work for me. We negotiate a couple things ie salary, vacation times, personal and sick time and sign a 3 year contract. Less then 1 year in I change my mind and decided to put stipulations on your vacation time and personal time. You think that is ok? And you think its legal as well? I am having a tough time believing it is....then why would anybody negotiate or sign contracts?

Did you sign a contract? What does the contract say?

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, all of us on ATOT are employment lawyers with many years of experience dealing with these issues

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to answer his question....you just need to know what you're talking about.

There are no laws in the United States stating that companies are required to give employees holidays off. Employers have every right to mandate when they will be open for business and when they expect their employees to be on staff.

OP- Remember, just because you have personal days to use it doesn't mean you are allowed to use them whenever you feel like...read your policy on this, I'm sure it says something along the lines of, "supervisor approval". As long as your employer gives you a little notice about the change in policy...there's not a whole lot you can do...other than find a new job.

Edit- Religious Accomodations may come into play here but, for the most part, this is one of the very few arenas where employers still have the power.

Yes, we did sign a 3 year contract. We are not off any holidays unless we pick a schedule that has them off in advance. We can choose to get paid for the holiday (if not worked) or we can choose to "save" it for another day.

As for personal days....again, there is NO stipulation on them. This is what is written in our contract book. "On January 1st of each year, each non probationary employee will also receive 6 personal leave days to use at their discretion during the calendar year for minor illness or to schedule as personal leave days."

P-days do not have to be approved by anyone. As a courtesy they should be taken no later then 1 hour before a scheduled shift.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, all of us on ATOT are employment lawyers with many years of experience dealing with these issues

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to answer his question....you just need to know what you're talking about.

There are no laws in the United States stating that companies are required to give employees holidays off. Employers have every right to mandate when they will be open for business and when they expect their employees to be on staff.

OP- Remember, just because you have personal days to use it doesn't mean you are allowed to use them whenever you feel like...read your policy on this, I'm sure it says something along the lines of, "supervisor approval". As long as your employer gives you a little notice about the change in policy...there's not a whole lot you can do...other than find a new job.

Edit- Religious Accomodations may come into play here but, for the most part, this is one of the very few arenas where employers still have the power.

Yes, we did sign a 3 year contract. We are not off any holidays unless we pick a schedule that has them off in advance. We can choose to get paid for the holiday (if not worked) or we can choose to "save" it for another day.

As for personal days....again, there is NO stipulation on them. This is what is written in our contract book. "On January 1st of each year, each non probationary employee will also receive 6 personal leave days to use at their discretion during the calendar year for minor illness or to schedule as personal leave days."

P-days do not have to be approved by anyone. As a courtesy they should be taken no later then 1 hour before a scheduled shift.

So you have no policy that states how personal days are used?

You MAY have something here if what you say is true...time to talk to a lawyer.

 

[lokiju]

Simple solution.

Get another job.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, all of us on ATOT are employment lawyers with many years of experience dealing with these issues

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to answer his question....you just need to know what you're talking about.

There are no laws in the United States stating that companies are required to give employees holidays off. Employers have every right to mandate when they will be open for business and when they expect their employees to be on staff.

OP- Remember, just because you have personal days to use it doesn't mean you are allowed to use them whenever you feel like...read your policy on this, I'm sure it says something along the lines of, "supervisor approval". As long as your employer gives you a little notice about the change in policy...there's not a whole lot you can do...other than find a new job.

Edit- Religious Accomodations may come into play here but, for the most part, this is one of the very few arenas where employers still have the power.

Yes, we did sign a 3 year contract. We are not off any holidays unless we pick a schedule that has them off in advance. We can choose to get paid for the holiday (if not worked) or we can choose to "save" it for another day.

As for personal days....again, there is NO stipulation on them. This is what is written in our contract book. "On January 1st of each year, each non probationary employee will also receive 6 personal leave days to use at their discretion during the calendar year for minor illness or to schedule as personal leave days."

P-days do not have to be approved by anyone. As a courtesy they should be taken no later then 1 hour before a scheduled shift.

So you have no policy that states how personal days are used?

You MAY have something here if what you say is true...time to talk to a lawyer.

there is no policy in place. but like i said people in the past have not taken p-days on holidays...but this year a bunch of people did. I'm not sure if u want to say some abused the privlege because there was no policy in place....now they want a policy. If they gave something back in return I'm sure we would agree to it but to force it on the workforce when the contract is already in place is something different.

i believe the union leaders are looking into it. I didnt get a chance to talk to talk more as i was busy today

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yes, all of us on ATOT are employment lawyers with many years of experience dealing with these issues

You don't need to be an employment lawyer to answer his question....you just need to know what you're talking about.

There are no laws in the United States stating that companies are required to give employees holidays off. Employers have every right to mandate when they will be open for business and when they expect their employees to be on staff.

OP- Remember, just because you have personal days to use it doesn't mean you are allowed to use them whenever you feel like...read your policy on this, I'm sure it says something along the lines of, "supervisor approval". As long as your employer gives you a little notice about the change in policy...there's not a whole lot you can do...other than find a new job.

Edit- Religious Accomodations may come into play here but, for the most part, this is one of the very few arenas where employers still have the power.

Yes, we did sign a 3 year contract. We are not off any holidays unless we pick a schedule that has them off in advance. We can choose to get paid for the holiday (if not worked) or we can choose to "save" it for another day.

As for personal days....again, there is NO stipulation on them. This is what is written in our contract book. "On January 1st of each year, each non probationary employee will also receive 6 personal leave days to use at their discretion during the calendar year for minor illness or to schedule as personal leave days."

P-days do not have to be approved by anyone. As a courtesy they should be taken no later then 1 hour before a scheduled shift.

So you have no policy that states how personal days are used?

You MAY have something here if what you say is true...time to talk to a lawyer.

there is no policy in place. but like i said people in the past have not taken p-days on holidays...but this year a bunch of people did. I'm not sure if u want to say some abused the privlege because there was no policy in place....now they want a policy. If they gave something back in return I'm sure we would agree to it but to force it on the workforce when the contract is already in place is something different.

i believe the union leaders are looking into it. I didnt get a chance to talk to talk more as i was busy today

That's right...you're union.

Bottom line...let the union handle it.

MY GUESS:

Employees still on current contract will be allowed to use P-days on holidays for the duration of their current contract.

All new contracts will have wording stating that P-days are not allowed to be used on holidays...which is 100% legal to do.

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK
Let me give you all a little background of my job before I go into the details. I can't say too much as we are a goverment contacted out company and I would risk my security clearance.

We are a 24/7 365 day operation - never closed not for holidays, etc. We are also a union shop and have a contact between us and our company. Each year we are given 6 personal days and 6 sick days to use. The sick days have to be used at a minimum of 2 at a time and need a doctor's note. The personal days can be used at our discretion. They are good to use in 4 or 8 hour incriments.

As a group we tend to say that p-days shouldnt be used on holidays so that the people that have to work holidays arent short staffed (hard to fill overtime on holidays). But we also realize that they are personal days and people have the right to use them at any time. The past year we had an influx of new hires and a lot people decided to use p-days on holidays and most of our shifts were short 50% or more. This is really a major safety risk if you knew what my job entailed.

So now managment has decided to designate 5 holidays every year that p-days cannot be used unless you are sick and can provide a doctor's note. A lot of people are upset because of this decision. Say your car breaks down or a child is sick on a holiday...there is nothing you can do as you have to be at work. We also pointed out that about 25% of the workforce either retired or quit last year and they failed to replace these people leaving the operating at minimum staffing. Any type of situation (ie snow, holidays, etc) where people would use a p-day would leave any shift short.

My question is that is this legal. Do they have the right to do this? What are your opinions on this issue?

I don't get the part bolded. Isn't your example excuse a valid reason for being able to get the day off and would entail using a sick day rather than a p-day? I think they are just trying to prevent everyone from taking only holidays off which would stretch the workforce thin. Something you admitted to and sympathize with. So how is what management doing a bad thing?

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: darkxshade

Originally posted by: alkohoLiK
Let me give you all a little background of my job before I go into the details. I can't say too much as we are a goverment contacted out company and I would risk my security clearance.

We are a 24/7 365 day operation - never closed not for holidays, etc. We are also a union shop and have a contact between us and our company. Each year we are given 6 personal days and 6 sick days to use. The sick days have to be used at a minimum of 2 at a time and need a doctor's note. The personal days can be used at our discretion. They are good to use in 4 or 8 hour incriments.

As a group we tend to say that p-days shouldnt be used on holidays so that the people that have to work holidays arent short staffed (hard to fill overtime on holidays). But we also realize that they are personal days and people have the right to use them at any time. The past year we had an influx of new hires and a lot people decided to use p-days on holidays and most of our shifts were short 50% or more. This is really a major safety risk if you knew what my job entailed.

So now managment has decided to designate 5 holidays every year that p-days cannot be used unless you are sick and can provide a doctor's note. A lot of people are upset because of this decision. Say your car breaks down or a child is sick on a holiday...there is nothing you can do as you have to be at work. We also pointed out that about 25% of the workforce either retired or quit last year and they failed to replace these people leaving the operating at minimum staffing. Any type of situation (ie snow, holidays, etc) where people would use a p-day would leave any shift short.

My question is that is this legal. Do they have the right to do this? What are your opinions on this issue?

I don't get the part bolded. Isn't your example excuse a valid reason for being able to get the day off and would entail using a sick day rather than a p-day? I think they are just trying to prevent everyone from taking only holidays off which would stretch the workforce thin. Something you admitted to and sympathize with. So how is what management doing a bad thing?

because we bargained and negoiated the contact in its current form without stipulations. if they want to impliment it they can either wait until the next contract and bargain for that or give something to us now - like i said before if they were willing to give another p-day in exchange for not taking a holiday off then im sure everyone would be willing to do it. but to simply enforce something that hasnt been bargained for is probably against the law....but im not an employment lawyer so i dont know the legality of the issue. i was hoping someone on here was and could shed some light.

edit: darkxshade...if your kid gets sick or ur car gets stuck in some snow on a christmas morning you cant use a sick day. you would need to get a note from a doctor....your kid is sick not u...so that wouldnt apply and the car breaking down well, that doesnt apply. generally you would take a p-day if that happened but if managment gets their way you would be required to be at work.

and Nutdotnet...we dont sign individual contracts. the union negotiates and we then vote on the contract as a whole. we just signed the contract last year and it expires in 2 years. we then go thru the whole process again of bargaining, etc. so if the company doesnt want us to use em on holidays then we can negotiate it....possibly getting something good in return.

 

[Jeff7]

Walmart is also open every day of the year, with the exception of Christmas. They really don't like people taking off on holidays because they're generally very busy. Apparently people can be bothered to waste a holiday wandering around a Walmart, so I'd think they would be able to work instead.
I've worked New Years, New Years Eve, Christmas Eve, Black Friday, Thanksgiving....just about any of the major holidays at some point in time.

Legal or not? As has been mentioned, that depends on your contract and the union. In plenty of states, it's "legal" for an employer to ask you to work for as long as you are able to do the job without falling asleep.
The only things keeping employers in check now are public relations and the law. Long gone are the good old days when an employer could have the police open fire on workers who were fed up with squalid working conditions. To me, that just shows how much employers, when left to their own devices, really care about those working under them.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Walmart is also open every day of the year, with the exception of Christmas. They really don't like people taking off on holidays because they're generally very busy. Apparently people can be bothered to waste a holiday wandering around a Walmart, so I'd think they would be able to work instead.
I've worked New Years, New Years Eve, Christmas Eve, Black Friday, Thanksgiving....just about any of the major holidays at some point in time.

Legal or not? As has been mentioned, that depends on your contract and the union. In plenty of states, it's "legal" for an employer to ask you to work for as long as you are able to do the job without falling asleep.
The only things keeping employers in check now are public relations and the law. Long gone are the good old days when an employer could have the police open fire on workers who were fed up with squalid working conditions. To me, that just shows how much employers, when left to their own devices, really care about those working under them.

yeah but walmart is not a union job. you dont sign a contract to work there. ive worked the same holidays as you plus christmas...it sucks but what can ya do?

im sure its going to come down to the union and management working something out but if someone has something good that i can pass along to my union reps that they werent aware of....well, then thats great.

 

[error162]

If you are unionized and its something that the company offered in the past, Then you can submit a greivance form that they are breaking past practice .

 

[Chadder007]

You need to check the Union's contract.

 

[IronWing]

Also, check the company's contract with the feds. It may specify performance levels including coverage, employee work/rest ratios, and even vacation days. For contracts involving absolutely-can't-fail operations the feds will spell out all sorts of requirements not found in normal business contracts.

 

[Geekbabe]

I'm in a union shop at a hospital and we can't use P days on major holidays.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: bctbct
Many people dont have sick leave, personal days, or paid vacation.

Quit whinning.

..:thumbsup: and are subject to disipline up to and including discharge if they show a pattern of sick in conjunction with weekends..holidays or vacations. And if you work in a "right to work" state they can toss you at any time for nearly any reason.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I'm in a union shop at a hospital and we can't use P days on major holidays.

Geek but do you have that in your contract that you are not allowed to use them on holidays? My wife's sister is a surgetech and she isnt allowed to take off on holidays either but she said that is because its in her contract.

Our current contract has no stipulations as to when we can or cannot take a personal day. I posted word for word what the contract stated about using personal days.

Our company has a contract with the government and the union has a contract with the company. I cant tell you what the government's contract with the company is because it is not published anywhere. However I do have a little book showing what the union and the company agreed on for this current contract.