Work/Life Decisions

[PricklyPete]

I'm just going to list the cliffs...

1) Current job is planning on moving me to Europe in the fall. Exciting.
2) I have had issues with my current company going on a year now that I have been trying to address with the owners. While I love my actual work, I ultimately do not love the work environment. The owners agree there is a problem and need to fix (this is not centered around me...but how our overall company behaves). Unfortunately as much as they talk about fixing it, I see little to no progress
3) I am a little hesitant to commit to moving overseas in this environment.
4) Started looking for a new job at the beginning of the summer. I have been very picky and already turned down a few offers.
5) I finally found a position with a company that I feel comfortable with. The work is potentially not as challenging in the long run, but the work environment appears to be much better. The pay is the same, should be significantly less stress, no travel at all, new things to learn, etc. It is also in a location that both my wife and I are eager to live.
6) Even though the position seems like a slam dunk, I am just having a hard time breaking away from my current company. Ultimately I do love what I do when I am not dealing with internal BS, there is a decent future if the company continues to do well, and the chance to live over in Europe for an extended time will be awesome. Unfortunately I do think it will take toll on me and my family both mentally and physically.
7) My wife and I are ready to start having kids. Slowing the amount of traveling/work/stress in my life would be very beneficial.
8) Having a hard time with the idea of "settling down" some and giving up the opportunity to move to Europe.

Any thoughts? Do you think I am always going to regret not heading to Europe? For reference, I am now 34 and my wife is 31.

edit: Updated point 5 to represent that the work is potentially less challenging...but that is a guess.

 

[soulcougher73]

Id take the new job in your shoes. Unless wife gets to come with you to Europe and any future kids. Then id stay with your current job.

 

[calvinbiss]

How long would the move to Europe be for?

Do you expect that the same environment is going to follow your current job to Europe?

The challenges presented to me by my job are why I like it. If I had a more boring/less challenging job, my overall level of contentness would go down. Is that worth it to you?

Also, how often dose one get a chance to live in Europe (that is not European). Plus, no income taxes!

I say go.

 

[PricklyPete]

Id take the new job in your shoes. Unless wife gets to come with you to Europe and any future kids. Then id stay with your current job.

Wife will come with me to Europe.

 

[Vdubchaos]

If you want to start a family, find a place where you can settle and raise them.

I will tell you right now, Suburbs and Europe don't mix well at all. And I would never EVER want to raise a family in a city environment/school systems.

Take the new job!!!

 

[PricklyPete]

How long would the move to Europe be for?

Do you expect that the same environment is going to follow your current job to Europe?

The challenges presented to me by my job are why I like it. If I had a more boring/less challenging job, my overall level of contentness would go down. Is that worth it to you?

Also, how often dose one get a chance to live in Europe (that is not European). Plus, no income taxes!

I say go.

Both jobs will provide challenges, but I am guessing my current will provide more. One benefit of the new job is that it will broaden my experience (which is why I said there is a lot more to learn). I am afraid in a few years I might find the new job less challenging...but that is a guess to be honest.

I actually expect the work environment to get worse in Europe, so that is part of my hesitance.

I most certainly will have income taxes..actually more than I have in the US.

 

[Pheran]

Any thoughts? Do you think I am always going to regret not heading to Europe? For reference, I am now 34 and my wife is 31.

The quick answer to this is that if you want to have kids, you need to start pretty darn soon, as it will become much riskier after she hits 35. If you aren't comfortable having a child while in Europe (which might be problematic for any number of reasons), then take whatever job is best for starting your family.

 

[iroast]

I most certainly will have income taxes..actually more than I have in the US.

I'm not saying that you should stay with current job, but...wouldn't you receive more social benefits in Europe? More vacation time, for example?

 

[manimal]

How old is your current company?

Culture change is the hardest thing to do for an established company. For a small lean startup you can change on a dime.


If I remember correctly you were moving to belgium right?

A close friend of mine moved his wife and small child there. They are now on their third child and they have considered staying there. If you have kids there they will have US and EU passports which has been great for my wife and I.

Regret is a hard one man. I have made many scrifices and can objectively know that I made the right ones given what I knew at the time. I do sometimes miss my old career and still feel a deep sense of loss from abandoning my dream job to take care of my sick wife. I would never make another choice and love and cherish my wife and family but regret can be real and it can poison relationships.

Whats your heart tell you? Whats your gut feeling?

If you ever want to PM me your email ill forward it to my buddy.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I'm not saying that you should stay with current job, but...wouldn't you receive more social benefits in Europe? More vacation time, for example?

Pros and cons to everything

It depends WHERE in Europe.

Sure benefits might be free, but he will pay LOT more taxes and services will be mediocre compare to US.

Are we talking UK? Germany? or Eastern EUrope?

Just to give you an example, when I was in Poland last year there is NO WAY IN HELL I could ever live there again and no way in hell I would let my wife have a kid in ANY of those hospitals (that I've seen/been in anyways).

My bro pays 50% in taxes on his income as well.....

 

[soulcougher73]

Wife will come with me to Europe.

In that case id go to Europe. Maybe youll love it and want to settle their instead of this hell hole

 

[PricklyPete]

I'm not saying that you should stay with current job, but...wouldn't you receive more social benefits in Europe? More vacation time, for example?

Yes, I will get state health care. I currently get 4 weeks of vacation and that will change to 5 when in Europe. The problem is that work has been so busy that I haven't even been able to take those 4 weeks each year. I will start with 3 at the new company and move to 4 after 2 years.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Yes, I will get state health care. I currently get 4 weeks of vacation and that will change to 5 when in Europe. The problem is that work has been so busy that I haven't even been able to take those 4 weeks each year. I will start with 3 at the new company and move to 4 after 2 years.

What about your/your wife's family.

I think you should sit down with her and kind of create a list of "must haves" and important things in your life.

There is SO much to consider when moving to another country.

PS. Your company will never change. As a PM I've been to # of companies that wanted to fix their "issues" yet would not take the steps to actually fix them. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[iRONic]

Yes, I will get state health care. I currently get 4 weeks of vacation and that will change to 5 when in Europe. The problem is that work has been so busy that I haven't even been able to take those 4 weeks each year. I will start with 3 at the new company and move to 4 after 2 years.

Living to work... Ugh.

That philosophy isn't conducive to being involved/enjoying children.

 

[repoman0]

Would your wife be working in Europe? Is there any reason you can't start your family in Europe? If your kids grow up knowing more than just English, that would be a huge positive in my opinion, not to mention they'd get exposed to more than just American culture during their young years. If they grow up with two languages, it's also much easier for them to learn more later.

Based on the information so far, I'd say go for it. 5 weeks vacation while living in Europe would be pretty incredible. But, we don't have any details on what exactly is wrong with the work environment at your current job.

 

[Krazy4Real]

I'd take the new job. It sounds like you are getting pretty fed up at your current one, and moving to Europe and the new experiences will be a temporary band-aid. If you're going to start a family, you will want less stress at work and to be able to spend more time at home.

 

[SandEagle]

what part of Europe? been to UK a few times and absolutely loved it. go for it.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Living to work... Ugh.

That philosophy isn't conducive to being involved/enjoying children.

I was going to bring this up, but figured he would learn that soon enough.

But I agree. Work is just a tool to get by in life.

Family is actual life. Don't mix the 2....EVER and keep them COMPLETELY separated.

My job gets 8-4, nothing more/nothing less.

But I've also seen WAY too many people taken advantage of in the name of fear and their entire lives evolved around work. Sad to see.

 

[PricklyPete]

What about your/your wife's family.

I think you should sit down with her and kind of create a list of "must haves" and important things in your life.

There is SO much to consider when moving to another country.

PS. Your company will never change. As a PM I've been to # of companies that wanted to fix their "issues" yet would not take the steps to actually fix them. Actions speak louder than words.

We have done the "pros/cons" list and it comes down to the new job is definitely more family/life positive while the current job as the potential to be more career positive. And don't let this thread fool you, my wife has been very involved in helping the two of us decide.

I definitely hear you on the companies not changing and that is a big part of why I am leaning toward the new job.

 

[PricklyPete]

Would your wife be working in Europe? Is there any reason you can't start your family in Europe? If your kids grow up knowing more than just English, that would be a huge positive in my opinion, not to mention they'd get exposed to more than just American culture during their young years. If they grow up with two languages, it's also much easier for them to learn more later.

Based on the information so far, I'd say go for it. 5 weeks vacation while living in Europe would be pretty incredible. But, we don't have any details on what exactly is wrong with the work environment at your current job.

I really don't want to air my company's dirty laundry on the internet...so I don't want to go into details. I am not the only one at my company that is unhappy. Several have left already...and I don't think I would be the last. Ultimately it is that they are more focused on money and the short term than quality of product and their employees well being.

My wife will not be working much or at all in Europe (she would do minimal contract work for her current company). The idea of raising kids in Europe is a huge plus from some aspects (culture, language, etc.) and a huge negative from other perspectives (seeing family, etc).

 

[Vdubchaos]

We have done the "pros/cons" list and it comes down to the new job is definitely more family/life positive while the current job as the potential to be more career positive. And don't let this thread fool you, my wife has been very involved in helping the two of us decide.

I definitely hear you on the companies not changing and that is a big part of why I am leaning toward the new job.

Sounds like "new job" it is

 

[Vdubchaos]

Ultimately it is that they are more focused on money and the short term than quality of product and their employees well being.

Good luck finding a company that isn't.

I've been to over 10 companies/3 careers and dealt with 100s of Fortune 500 companies (for whatever that's worth).

 

[PricklyPete]

what part of Europe? been to UK a few times and absolutely loved it. go for it.

Austria.

I have spent a LOT of time over in Europe (including 6 months in England), so am very familiar with the environment that we will be living in. The chance of living in Europe is a huge + from our standpoint...just not if the work conditions result in us not being able to enjoy it.

 

[PricklyPete]

I was going to bring this up, but figured he would learn that soon enough.

But I agree. Work is just a tool to get by in life.

Family is actual life. Don't mix the 2....EVER and keep them COMPLETELY separated.

My job gets 8-4, nothing more/nothing less.

But I've also seen WAY too many people taken advantage of in the name of fear and their entire lives evolved around work. Sad to see.

Yes, this is a big part of why I have been looking. I have realized that work has been taking up too much of my life.

 

[highland145]

Unfortunately I do think it will take toll on me and my family both mentally and physically.

One of the reasons I went to work for myself was the travel and my son. I was gone 2 weeks out of the month. He was 4. Screw that.

Also,

MOX, SRS.