Woman wins marathon or does she?

[oboeguy]

Cycling in the USA gets around this problem by having explicit categories with separate prizes. The most common system (from the USCF) ranks cyclists as Pro, Category 1, etc down to Category 5 (== no0b). Racers climb the category ladder by getting results (top 10 placings, for example). Often at pro-am events the there will be a Pro/1/2 pack that races in one group for a specific pot of prize money. Beyond that, grouping depends on how big the fields are expected to be, with each group having its own prize money. Any racers care to add (or correct)? (I'm just a fan who rides but doesn't race though I train with and know racers).

I wonder at which school she teaches?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: D1gger
An "Elite" runner is usually based on previous times. Since she had never run even close to her winning time, she probably wouldn't have been admitted to the elite running start. On the other hand, it wouldn't be fair to the elite runners to not know what time they had to beat to win since she started 20 minutes after they did. If she had been running with the elites, maybe they would have stayed with her and beat her at the line, who knows. All in all an f'd up event.

Her previous best was 3:07 which would have placed her second even if she hadn't been able to improve on it.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: UILanMan

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Would the "winner" have been able to run over ten minutes faster if the other lady was in front of her?

She probably would have been able to run the race faster if someone was in front of her. But we don't know how much faster. And that's the problem.

Why? They should be pushing themselves to the limit if they want to be called "the best" no matter if there is someone in front of them or not...

I guess I'm a newb to marathons, but I thought they all ran down the same road? Wouldn't the "elite" people who got the head start see themselves getting passed? Even the foremost elite runner who "could have run faster" had her pass them at some point, were they just blind ?

Math fail...

*shame on you*

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: edro
The elite runners would have stepped it up a notch if she had passed them.
I'm sure most of the elite runners have times under 3 hours.
The race is based on beating the other racers, not having the best time.
That's why there's a starting line.

I agree, it sucks for her though.

None did, the winner had a time of 3:06 and she was 11 min. faster.

Originally posted by: Article
And then they called out the first-place time (3:06), and I said, 'Heck, I'm faster than her first-place time, too.' "

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: datalink7
Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Where did you get that idea? 😕

She ran an entire race where she was catching up to people, and that is quite different from running a race with no one in front of you.

The Elite runners were never within eye sight. She was running alone with 20,000 women trying to catch her.

Only 7 elite runners finished the race in front of her. She passed the rest.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: UILanMan

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Would the "winner" have been able to run over ten minutes faster if the other lady was in front of her?

She probably would have been able to run the race faster if someone was in front of her. But we don't know how much faster. And that's the problem.

Why? They should be pushing themselves to the limit if they want to be called "the best" no matter if there is someone in front of them or not...

I guess I'm a newb to marathons, but I thought they all ran down the same road? Wouldn't the "elite" people who got the head start see themselves getting passed? Even the foremost elite runner who "could have run faster" had her pass them at some point, were they just blind ?

Math fail...

*shame on you*

I just pulled the first 50 runners' time and she passed quite a few of them. Now is it 25 people or 25 Male and 25 Female in the elite?

Assuming it's 25 females in the elite and no one else passed the elite, she would have passed 16 of the elite.

Google Docs

 

[Balr0g]

Originally posted by: JujuFish
The argument that the elites wouldn't know they have to race harder because she wasn't with them doesn't hold water. The exact same argument can be used in reverse. If they get a 20 minute head start, how is she supposed to know how well they raced? Absolutely idiotic.

Edit, by "she", I mean the school teacher.

Yeah what about this?

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: datalink7
Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Where did you get that idea? 😕

She ran an entire race where she was catching up to people, and that is quite different from running a race with no one in front of you.

The Elite runners were never within eye sight. She was running alone with 20,000 women trying to catch her.

Only 7 elite runners finished the race in front of her. She passed the rest.

data source please, I got a different result from pulling first 40 finishes.

 

[MikeyLSU]

saying that the "elite" runners held up is bullshit because there were people in front of the 1st place women, they were men.

I don't think she woudl have held up just because she was teh first women. If we are talking 1st overall, that may be different.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

I'm having trouble coming up with data 🙁

Need to improve neffing and googling skills...

Where did you get your data sdifox?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: UILanMan

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Would the "winner" have been able to run over ten minutes faster if the other lady was in front of her?

She probably would have been able to run the race faster if someone was in front of her. But we don't know how much faster. And that's the problem.

Why? They should be pushing themselves to the limit if they want to be called "the best" no matter if there is someone in front of them or not...

I guess I'm a newb to marathons, but I thought they all ran down the same road? Wouldn't the "elite" people who got the head start see themselves getting passed? Even the foremost elite runner who "could have run faster" had her pass them at some point, were they just blind ?

Math fail...

*shame on you*

I just pulled the first 50 runners' time and she passed quite a few of them. Now is it 25 people or 25 Male and 25 Female in the elite?

Assuming it's 25 females in the elite and no one else passed the elite, she would have passed 16 of the elite.

http://spreadsheets.google.com...FHmxqNYPM1ypEO71k6xfNA

The foremost elite runner would be the winner? Who wasn't passed. Hence the fail.

Don't forget that 20 minutes is the minimum advantage they had over her, her time started when she crossed the line - so do we have a start time for her?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: datalink7
Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Where did you get that idea? 😕

She ran an entire race where she was catching up to people, and that is quite different from running a race with no one in front of you.

The Elite runners were never within eye sight. She was running alone with 20,000 women trying to catch her.

Only 7 elite runners finished the race in front of her. She passed the rest.

data source please, I got a different result from pulling first 40 finishes.

http://results.eternaltiming.com/event/NWM2008

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
I'm having trouble coming up with data 🙁

Need to improve neffing and googling skills...

Where did you get your data sdifox?

http://results.eternaltiming.com/event/NWM2008

HomeBrewDude linked to it, but that link doesn't work for some reason but this should.

You do have to click on the results button.

 

[PricklyPete]

I would be severely pissed.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: datalink7
Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Where did you get that idea? 😕

She ran an entire race where she was catching up to people, and that is quite different from running a race with no one in front of you.

The Elite runners were never within eye sight. She was running alone with 20,000 women trying to catch her.

Only 7 elite runners finished the race in front of her. She passed the rest.

data source please, I got a different result from pulling first 40 finishes.

http://results.eternaltiming.com/event/NWM2008

now how the hell did we come up with different results? I am just counting the female...

http://spreadsheets.google.com...FHmxqNYPM1ypEO71k6xfNA

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: UILanMan

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dainthomas
Would the "winner" have been able to run over ten minutes faster if the other lady was in front of her?

She probably would have been able to run the race faster if someone was in front of her. But we don't know how much faster. And that's the problem.

Why? They should be pushing themselves to the limit if they want to be called "the best" no matter if there is someone in front of them or not...

I guess I'm a newb to marathons, but I thought they all ran down the same road? Wouldn't the "elite" people who got the head start see themselves getting passed? Even the foremost elite runner who "could have run faster" had her pass them at some point, were they just blind ?

Math fail...

*shame on you*

I just pulled the first 50 runners' time and she passed quite a few of them. Now is it 25 people or 25 Male and 25 Female in the elite?

Assuming it's 25 females in the elite and no one else passed the elite, she would have passed 16 of the elite.

http://spreadsheets.google.com...FHmxqNYPM1ypEO71k6xfNA

The foremost elite runner would be the winner? Who wasn't passed. Hence the fail.

Don't forget that 20 minutes is the minimum advantage they had over her, her time started when she crossed the line - so do we have a start time for her?

Ah, ok, it's the foremost part you are objecting to.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: datalink7
Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Where did you get that idea? 😕

She ran an entire race where she was catching up to people, and that is quite different from running a race with no one in front of you.

The Elite runners were never within eye sight. She was running alone with 20,000 women trying to catch her.

Only 7 elite runners finished the race in front of her. She passed the rest.

data source please, I got a different result from pulling first 40 finishes.

http://results.eternaltiming.com/event/NWM2008

now how the hell did we come up with different results? I am just counting the female...

http://spreadsheets.google.com...FHmxqNYPM1ypEO71k6xfNA

sdifox's results include the Elite Women. Mugs link shows Overall Women but excludes Elite Women. If you click on the drop down in the top left corner, where it shows female, you'll also see Elite Female.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Name........................Sex...Age.....From..................Position.......Time

PAUL SMITH...............M......31......CHICO, CA ...............1...........02:40:40
ARIEN O'CONNELL......F......24......NEW YORK, NY..........2...........02:55:11
MATT WEST................M......29......WICHITA, KS............3............02:58:39

Respect... she beat the second place man...

 

[mugs]

After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

I don't know anything about the frisco route (yes, I see the green line, but I don't know the geography at all). Is it flat or does it involve the hills? That might impact the time tremendously if they are going up or down a hill.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

I will tell you one thing for sure, if you are smart you would sponsor her for her next event. That's bound to get coverage if she does well...

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

There was no men's elite group in the marathon...

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

I don't know anything about the frisco route (yes, I see the green line, but I don't know the geography at all). Is it flat or does it involve the hills? That might impact the time tremendously if they are going up or down a hill.

The route is on the link you posted...

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

I don't know anything about the frisco route (yes, I see the green line, but I don't know the geography at all). Is it flat or does it involve the hills? That might impact the time tremendously if they are going up or down a hill.

The route is on the link you posted...

That is why I included the sentence in bold. the google maps doesn't show elevation topography. I only know San Francisco through films and tv shows... Which almost always show some frigging crazy hills.

oops, forgot the end bold tag.

 

[Chryso]

That is total BS.