Woman wins marathon or does she?

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mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

There was no men's elite group in the marathon...

I know :confused:

Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

I don't know anything about the frisco route (yes, I see the green line, but I don't know the geography at all). Is it flat or does it involve the hills? That might impact the time tremendously if they are going up or down a hill.

I googled some of top elite women's names, didn't come back with anything you'd expect if they were among the top women in the world. The third place elite woman came in first in a marathon in Rhode Island 2 years ago with a time 14 minutes slower, and of course the woman who is the topic of this thread ran the best time of her life. Also, all but one of the elite women are Americans. I'd guess the course wasn't particularly slow, they just didn't have real elite runners.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
Google maps

Google map so you can virtually walk the marathon if ya want.

Walking directions to Great Hwy/Lower Great Hwy
26.4 mi ? about 8 hours 46 mins

Lulz.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Chryso
That is total BS.

That's sad

That's the new America everyone wants

rose.gif

 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
Originally posted by: sdifox

oops, forgot the end bold tag.

opps.... I somehow completely skipped the bracketed text. My fault. Sorry Sdifox :(

My link has the proper google map (with terrain). Looks like they avoided most of the big hills. I don't have time to street view it all to see.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

There was no men's elite group in the marathon...

I know :confused:

Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: mugs
After seeing the times, I'm realizing that apparently the San Fransisco Nike Women's Marathon apparently doesn't attract real elite runners - the ones who would compete in New York or Boston or the Olympics or what have you. The only real distinction between the elites and the non-elites seems to be that the elites put the effort into sending in a resume with past times. I think this woman probably would have beaten the (not-so) elites if she were running with them.

I don't know anything about the frisco route (yes, I see the green line, but I don't know the geography at all). Is it flat or does it involve the hills? That might impact the time tremendously if they are going up or down a hill.

I googled some of top elite women's names, didn't come back with anything you'd expect if they were among the top women in the world. The third place elite woman came in first in a marathon in Rhode Island 2 years ago with a time 14 minutes slower, and of course the woman who is the topic of this thread ran the best time of her life. Also, all but one of the elite women are Americans. I'd guess the course wasn't particularly slow, they just didn't have real elite runners.

The Nike Marathon is billed as a Women's marathon. And due to bigger, better paying and more prestigious marathons (Chicago and New York) in the same time frame, you won't find any real elite runners running in the Nike marathon. They are all preparing for those marathons.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Google maps

Google map so you can virtually walk the marathon if ya want.

Walking directions to Great Hwy/Lower Great Hwy
26.4 mi ? about 8 hours 46 mins

Lulz.

Holy crap...yeah, that's pretty much 1/2 uphill if A is the start. after the route goes through Golden Gate park and back out, it's up-hill.

Ouch.

EDIT: oh, so it comes back down. well, after leaving the park, that's uphill, so I guess the finish and route back is downhill again. Everything on the north end and approaching the park is more or less flat.
 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: dainthomas
The classy thing to do would be for the woman who got the original trophy to give it to this lady. Why would you want a trophy you didn't really earn anyway?

The theory is that, because they had separate starts, they weren't in the same race," Estes said. "The woman who is winning the elite field doesn't have the opportunity to know she was racing someone else.

That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. It was the same course on the same day. Would the "winner" have been able to run over ten minutes faster if the other lady was in front of her?

actually, it does make sense. Finishing times are often determined by how the other runners around you perform. If she was out there at her winning pace, I bet the "elites" would have been right up with her, much less run faster.

Exactly.

KT

Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Do you run? It's completely different when you are surrounded by competition and if they are the elite runners, they are running against each others, as they are the competition, not some random person that is in another group.

Does it suck for her? Sure, but this is the way running competitions work.

KT

I run 3-8 miles 5 days a week. Yes I know that there can be psychological help if you have competition, but I also know that I can push myself with no one around. They got beat, plain and simple.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: dainthomas
The classy thing to do would be for the woman who got the original trophy to give it to this lady. Why would you want a trophy you didn't really earn anyway?

The theory is that, because they had separate starts, they weren't in the same race," Estes said. "The woman who is winning the elite field doesn't have the opportunity to know she was racing someone else.

That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. It was the same course on the same day. Would the "winner" have been able to run over ten minutes faster if the other lady was in front of her?

actually, it does make sense. Finishing times are often determined by how the other runners around you perform. If she was out there at her winning pace, I bet the "elites" would have been right up with her, much less run faster.

Exactly.

KT

Like was previously mentioned, she probably finished her time with nobody around her. If she could push herself without any "psychological help", then so should the "elite" runner. If they can't, their loss.

IMO.

Do you run? It's completely different when you are surrounded by competition and if they are the elite runners, they are running against each others, as they are the competition, not some random person that is in another group.

Does it suck for her? Sure, but this is the way running competitions work.

KT

I run 3-8 miles 5 days a week. Yes I know that there can be psychological help if you have competition, but I also know that I can push myself with no one around. They got beat, plain and simple.

....and how many marathons? ;)
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: datalink7
I run 3-8 miles 5 days a week. Yes I know that there can be psychological help if you have competition, but I also know that I can push myself with no one around. They got beat, plain and simple.

Have you ever run in a road race? One will run much faster with other's pushing them.
 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
Originally posted by: zinfamous

....and how many marathons? ;)

None. But that doesn't matter for the point at hand.

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Have you ever run in a road race? One will run much faster with other's pushing them.

Yes, I have run in a race. I'm not denying that it is easier to push oneself with others to race against. However, it isn't impossible to run at with maximum effort while running by yourself. You don't magically get an increased max speed just because you are running next to, running after, or running away from someone.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: zinfamous

....and how many marathons? ;)

None. But that doesn't matter for the point at hand.

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Have you ever run in a road race? One will run much faster with other's pushing them.

Yes, I have run in a race. I'm not denying that it is easier to push oneself with others to race against. However, it isn't impossible to run at with maximum effort while running by yourself. You don't magically get an increased max speed just because you are running next to, running after, or running away from someone.

Well, I just ran a 1/2 marathon and improved my pace by more than 30 seconds per mile over any of my training runs b/c I had the adrenaline to want to catch and pass people.

Ever train with a running partner? Doesn't sound like you're very competitive or you would know that athletes perform better with competition.

 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Have you ever run in a road race? One will run much faster with other's pushing them.

So she would have beaten the elite group even worse if she ran with them behind her too?

She must have been way out front of the regular group, so she did pretty good without anyone pushing her but herself.

You gotta wonder if the elite group knew that the regular group leader was a lot closer than 20 minutes behind...

She was approximately 9 minutes behind the elite leader at the finish, having gained 11 minutes on her, so how close was she to the last place elite runner?

Was she in fact pushing the elite group?

Looks like she was. Looks like she passed several of the elite women. About 12 of the 19 elites on the list must have been passed by Arien, since they were more than 9 minutes behind the elite leader.

Turns out most of the elites were in fact passed by Arien.

So, the excuse about being pushed doesn't look too good in this case.

She also beat all the men's times except for the winner...

 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,440
5,426
136
I got a pair of track shoes in the mail today.

I would never be competitive in a marathon, however.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Have you ever run in a road race? One will run much faster with other's pushing them.

So she would have beaten the elite group even worse if she ran with them behind her too?

She must have been way out front of the regular group, so she did pretty good without anyone pushing her but herself.

You gotta wonder if the elite group knew that the regular group leader was a lot closer than 20 minutes behind...

She was approximately 9 minutes behind the elite leader at the finish, having gained 11 minutes on her, so how close was she to the last place elite runner?

Was she in fact pushing the elite group?

Looks like she was. Looks like she passed several of the elite women. About 12 of the 19 elites on the list must have been passed by Arien, since they were more than 9 minutes behind the elite leader.

Turns out most of the elites were in fact passed by Arien.

So, the excuse about being pushed doesn't look too good in this case.

She also beat all the men's times except for the winner...

Based on all of their spread of times, you do know that none of these racers were that fast or elite right? And yes, if the all of the runners started at the same time, you would more than likely have seen better times.

With the Chicago Marathon the week prior and the NY coming up, no elite runners were running in this race.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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I don't care much for excuses when it comes to anything, the one who ran fastest clearly won regardless of the excuses.

If someone lifts last can i complain that if i only knew i would have exhausted myself with a lower but near weight if i knew he was going to raise the weight?

This is amateur bullshit from a company that wanted their representative to win and it's bullshit, they could just have had her on there, i'm sure many others held down their pace for her to win too because if they were really competing and that's the best they can do... it's pathetic.