With Intel processors being so expensive these days, is the 860k viable?

[alcoholbob]

Current broadwell processor prices are just bananas. I have a 5 year old Dell laptop I paid $838 for with a 120GB SSD, Blu Ray RW drive, 17" display, 2.4GHz Core2Duo. If I wanted a laptop with the exact same configuration today 5 years later, with everything else exactly the same but Broadwell CPU that's maybe 20% faster I'd be looking at spending about $1400-1500.

 

[Shehriazad]

The only other Intel CPU right now that seems to hold up in price vs performance on the Intel side is the G3258 as it costs the same as the 860K.

But then again...you're trading in multithreaded performance for singlethreaded performance. So while the Intel CPU will likely win in all the older games...the 860K seems at least a tiny bit more future proof. (Not that such a thing would exist in that low cost area)

I can get the

G3258 for 62€ (71$)
The 860K for 65€(74$)
and the cheapest i3 110€(125$) for the same platform.


And while I have to admit that currently the G3258 wins in more games....DX12 has quite a strong effect on AMDs CPUs that makes them get very close in performance compared to i3.(I base this statement off of the not-so-reliable Starswarm tests, so this is subject to change...maybe)

So if I needed a cheap CPU and would be sure I wouldn't be upgrading it anytime soon (like until 2016 at least)...then I'd go with 860K for sure.

If I have an upgrade path later down the line...then I'd pick the G3258.


I mean sure...everyone has preferences...but I just don't feel good about having only 2 threads/cores in 2015.
But if this was for like..let's say a "Skyrim machine"(aka 2010-13 games)...then I'd pick the 3258 for sure.




Btw...can we kinda..exclude overclocking as a general rule of thumb when comparing these 2 CPUs? I mean if you plan to OC...then you're not going to try that with stock heatsinks and 30$ boards...right? At least I hope you don't. I feel like people who buy hardware in that price region don't necessarily have the additional 50$-100$ to spend that can easily come with overclocking. (Aftermarket heatsink/cooler + a board that isn't some creepy 3+1 phase design) And overclocks on "stock hardware" are not all that impressive.

 

[DrMrLordX]

So... I wonder why that is? Is it a rather hard cutoff point, and not a curve?

Is it the IMC/Uncore? Memory bottleneck? Something chipset-related?

Theories abound, but nobody knows for sure. The fact that it plagues certain boards but not others seems to implicate the quality of the socket implementation and/or the power delivery. It's also been said that FM2+ has a shortage of pins dedicated to power, which may have something to do with it. Earlier theories implicated socket temperature.

yawa tried tackling the issue head on over at OCN, but his Extreme 6+ gave him nothing but headaches. Some users claimed that the problem could be overcome via Overdrive, but then some of those users had similar problems to the ones yawa had without necessarily knowing it.

The only two boards I know of for sure that don't have the problem are the Crossblade Ranger and the A88x-Pro.

What is also interesting is that a few Richland users have reported the same problems on boards like the Extreme 6+.

In all probability, the 860k in that hardcoreware review is performing the same as if it were at 4.4-4.5 ghz.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The fastest i3 (4370) is 3.8 Ghz. Here is G3258 at 3.8Ghz on a B85 motherboard, with a stock cooler:

The G3258 costs $60, and the i3-4370 costs $150. If anyone really thinks Hyperthreading and an extra 1MB of cache is worth $90, well, a fool is born every day.

You might if you are playing one of the new console ports that wont even start the game on a two thread cpu. I know some of them have hacks to make them work, but some i think still dont. Totally due to bad porting, but "it is what it is".

 

[ShintaiDK]

OMG! The price of Intel processors just keeps going up here in Canada!

Yeah, I know our dollar has taken a hit recently, but the price of Intel stuff seems to have increased at a rate higher than that. The i7 4790k is $419.99 compared to the ~$300 the 3770k was. Ugh.

So with the A8-7600 being much cheaper than any i3, it's more tempting than ever...
*sigh* Crazy times... no good used stuff on kijiji to make this problem moot.

Its 400, not 420.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-369-_-Product

And 400CAD is 320USD.

Same price as sold in US:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-369-_-Product

And the 4690K is actually cheaper in Canada Newegg than US Newegg.

Less drama, more homework.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You might if you are playing one of the new console ports that wont even start the game on a two thread cpu. I know some of them have hacks to make them work, but some i think still dont. Totally due to bad porting, but "it is what it is".

Only 1 game if any left isnt there?

Rest seems to have learned the lessons after a roundtrip in the media.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Current broadwell processor prices are just bananas. I have a 5 year old Dell laptop I paid $838 for with a 120GB SSD, Blu Ray RW drive, 17" display, 2.4GHz Core2Duo. If I wanted a laptop with the exact same configuration today 5 years later, with everything else exactly the same but Broadwell CPU that's maybe 20% faster I'd be looking at spending about $1400-1500.

So much for ShintaiDK's argument that "Intel competes with itself", so "prices won't increase" as AMD becomes even less competitive. Of course they will. Intel's not stupid.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So much for ShintaiDK's argument that "Intel competes with itself", so "prices won't increase" as AMD becomes even less competitive. Of course they will. Intel's not stupid.

Look on CPU prices. Intel doesnt control the OEM chain. Also its apples and oranges and you know it.

Prices have been stable for ages now, only inflation adjusted.

Or whats the argument? That a 220-280$ mobile Core 2 is now a 1000$ Broadwell?

 

[Blue_Max]

Less drama, more homework.

Was being a jerk really called for? :hmm:
It still doesn't change the fact that this generation of processors is significantly more expensive than 1-2 generations ago, when an i7-K was easily found for ~$300.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Was being a jerk really called for? :hmm:
It still doesn't change the fact that this generation of processors is significantly more expensive than 1-2 generations ago, when an i7-K was easily found for ~$300.

Why? Because I pointed out you are wrong and making baseless claims?

Lets look on MSRP prices, release date and inflation adjusted prices:
i7 875K 353$ Q1 2010 383$
2600K 317$ Q1 2011 334$
2700K 332$ Q4 2011 349$
3770K 342$ Q2 2012 353$
4770K 350$ Q2 2013 356$
4790K 350$ Q2 2014 350$ (320$ on Newegg, 280$ Microcenter.)

 

[Blue_Max]

Why? Because I pointed out you are wrong and making baseless claims?

...because we always pay MSRP. Seems you're taking this awfully personally... I'm SO sorry I was off by $20 from today's absolute best price.

 

[Atreidin]

So much for ShintaiDK's argument that "Intel competes with itself", so "prices won't increase" as AMD becomes even less competitive. Of course they will. Intel's not stupid.

That's what happens when you develop an economic theory based on one variable and then assume all market participants are perfectly rational (and by rational, I mean "think and act exactly like the person who stated the theory")

 

[Erenhardt]

No one brings terrible frame times of pentium? Very strange to see people give any weight to average fps numbers these days.

 

[ElFenix]

Current broadwell processor prices are just bananas. I have a 5 year old Dell laptop I paid $838 for with a 120GB SSD, Blu Ray RW drive, 17" display, 2.4GHz Core2Duo. If I wanted a laptop with the exact same configuration today 5 years later, with everything else exactly the same but Broadwell CPU that's maybe 20% faster I'd be looking at spending about $1400-1500.

So 5 years ago you got a laptop with a previous generation processor and you're comparing the price to a brand spanking new gen processor? How much would that laptop have been with an arrandale?

Was being a jerk really called for? :hmm:
It still doesn't change the fact that this generation of processors is significantly more expensive than 1-2 generations ago, when an i7-K was easily found for ~$300.

Intel's pricing has barely budged. You're simply wrong.

 

[cbn]

No one brings terrible frame times of pentium? Very strange to see people give any weight to average fps numbers these days.

Pentium OC G3258 actually won 4 out of 7 games (in terms of frame time variance) against OC Athlon x4 750K in the Tom's test:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36517046&postcount=17

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36517050&postcount=18

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36517071&postcount=19 (<---Here is where I tallied results)

,...but one of the newer games Thief there was a large discrepancy in frame time variance favoring OC Athlon x4 750K.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36873247&postcount=30

Unfortunately Thief was very new at the time (it was the newest game in the test I believe). My conclusion (after comparing Thief to the oldest game to scale quad core in the test, Metro Last Light) was that is was probably a driver issue.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36875563&postcount=49

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Why? Because I pointed out you are wrong and making baseless claims?

Lets look on MSRP prices, release date and inflation adjusted prices:
i7 875K 353$ Q1 2010 383$
2600K 317$ Q1 2011 334$
2700K 332$ Q4 2011 349$
3770K 342$ Q2 2012 353$
4770K 350$ Q2 2013 356$
4790K 350$ Q2 2014 350$ (320$ on Newegg, 280$ Microcenter.)

You've got to be kidding me. Adjusting for inflation from 2010? Wow..... That's a pretty sad attempt to prove failed logic. Buying power between now and 5 years ago has barely changed.

Every other technology in existence has dropped in price over that time. My 50 inch HDTV cost $1000, 5 years ago. Today I can buy the updated version of the same TV for $400. As Intel keeps shrinking the node, their profit per chip explodes as they gradually jack up the MSRP.... then pocketing all that money (since they don't really have any competition).

The others on this forum are right.... Intel has been jacking up the prices of the i7 because they can. It has been a modest increase, but it is there. Just a few short years ago, you could pick up a locked Ivy or Sandy i7 off Newegg for the mid $200 range.... Can't touch any i7 for under $300 now.

All you have to do is look at the Intel Annual Report. The huge profits are coming from i7's and Xeon sales. Intel isn't stupid. They are taking advantage of AMD's lack of competitive offerings.

 

[Arachnotronic]

You've got to be kidding me. Adjusting for inflation from 2010? What a sad attempt of proving flawed logic.

Every other technology in existence has dropped in price over time. My 50 inch HDTV cost $1000, 4 years ago. Today I can buy the updated version for $400. As Intel keeps shrinking the node, their profit per chip explodes as they jack up the MSRP.... then pocketing that money.

Unsurprising given that nobody actually makes money selling HDTVs.

The others on this forum are right.... Intel has been jacking up the prices of the i7... It's not exactly rocket science, they are increasing profits for their stockholders. It is pure lunacy to argue against that -- because it is a fact. Just look at the latest Intel Annual Report, seriously......

You don't have to "jack up prices" to increase profits for your stockholders.

 

[ElFenix]

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Intel-i7...essor-Cache/product/B004FA8NOQ?context=browse

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Intel-Core-i7-3770-Quad-Core-Processor/product/B007SZ0EHE?context=browse

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Intel-i7...0646I74790K/product/B00KPRWAX8?context=browse

that's not much movement. the way you're arguing you'd think they'd have gone up $100.

maybe i'm spoiled by microcenter. price has been pretty much the same there since sandybridge.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You've got to be kidding me. Adjusting for inflation from 2010? Wow..... That's a pretty sad attempt to prove failed logic. Buying power between now and 5 years ago has barely changed.

Every other technology in existence has dropped in price over that time. My 50 inch HDTV cost $1000, 5 years ago. Today I can buy the updated version of the same TV for $400. As Intel keeps shrinking the node, their profit per chip explodes as they gradually jack up the MSRP.... then pocketing all that money (since they don't really have any competition).

The others on this forum are right.... Intel has been jacking up the prices of the i7 because they can. It has been a modest increase, but it is there. Just a few short years ago, you could pick up a locked Ivy or Sandy i7 off Newegg for the mid $200 range.... Can't touch any i7 for under $300 now.

All you have to do is look at the Intel Annual Report. The huge profits are coming from i7's and Xeon sales. Intel isn't stupid. They are taking advantage of AMD's lack of competitive offerings.

But the latest TV still cost you what? 1000$? 1200$? 1500$?. The latest flagship smartphone is what?

You couldnt pick up a latest i7 for mid 200$ range at newegg.

Nomatter if you like it or not. Buying power increases.Inflation adjust prices on products. This is how the economy work for all products.

If you didnt get part in the GDP growth, then thats someone elses fault.

 

[dahorns]

Current broadwell processor prices are just bananas. I have a 5 year old Dell laptop I paid $838 for with a 120GB SSD, Blu Ray RW drive, 17" display, 2.4GHz Core2Duo. If I wanted a laptop with the exact same configuration today 5 years later, with everything else exactly the same but Broadwell CPU that's maybe 20% faster I'd be looking at spending about $1400-1500.

I'm sorry, are you actually arguing that your 5 year old laptop would be at all comparable to a Broadwell ultrabook? It will be slower, have a lower res screen, have a fraction of the battery life, be twice (three times?) as thick, and have a fraction of the memory. Other than those things, I guess they are the same laptop.

 

[dahorns]

Every other technology in existence has dropped in price over that time. My 50 inch HDTV cost $1000, 5 years ago. Today I can buy the updated version of the same TV for $400. As Intel keeps shrinking the node, their profit per chip explodes as they gradually jack up the MSRP.... then pocketing all that money (since they don't really have any competition).

You aren't comparing apples to apples. A 50 inch HDTV from 5 years ago is going to be pretty similar to a 50 inch HDTV today. On the other hand, there is a hell of a difference between a first generation I7-u series and a Broadwell one.

Today, you can buy an Atom based notebook that is as (more?) powerful than a high end Desktop from 2000. And, it'll cost you 1/10th of the price even without accounting for inflation.

 

[tential]

You've got to be kidding me. Adjusting for inflation from 2010? Wow..... That's a pretty sad attempt to prove failed logic. Buying power between now and 5 years ago has barely changed.

Every other technology in existence has dropped in price over that time. My 50 inch HDTV cost $1000, 5 years ago. Today I can buy the updated version of the same TV for $400. As Intel keeps shrinking the node, their profit per chip explodes as they gradually jack up the MSRP.... then pocketing all that money (since they don't really have any competition).

The others on this forum are right.... Intel has been jacking up the prices of the i7 because they can. It has been a modest increase, but it is there. Just a few short years ago, you could pick up a locked Ivy or Sandy i7 off Newegg for the mid $200 range.... Can't touch any i7 for under $300 now.

All you have to do is look at the Intel Annual Report. The huge profits are coming from i7's and Xeon sales. Intel isn't stupid. They are taking advantage of AMD's lack of competitive offerings.

I got my I7-4770k for under $300 from MicroCenter.
I don't see what the complaints are.
If you live in an area where processor pricing is screwed, well that sucks. But in the greatest country to have ever existed (That's America for those of you who haven't been keeping score at home), pricing on Intel processors is quite freaking amazing. It mind boggles me every day that there are people in America who would go for something less than an i5.

 

[PC Master Race]

The price of Intel CPUs does not make an Athlon CPU any more or less viable ... it is what it is which is a budget low end CPU.

 

[Headfoot]

The G3258 costs $60, and the i3-4370 costs $150. If anyone really thinks Hyperthreading and an extra 1MB of cache is worth $90, well, a fool is born every day.

Are you capable of reading the benchmarks posted in this very thread?

 

[Blue_Max]

that's not much movement. the way you're arguing you'd think they'd have gone up $100.

maybe i'm spoiled by microcenter. price has been pretty much the same there since sandybridge.

Maybe it's just the Canadian dollar, but for me it has. In the 1155 era it was easy to get a basic mobo and i5 processor for $250 brand-spanking-new. Now it's that much for the processor alone. The i7 is in the same boat...

...it's mostly the dollar right now, but I noticed the increase even while our dollar was at parity. I just wish we got more of the screamin' deals you yankees get.