With $15/hr min in CA, #NoMoreTipping movement has solid footing?

[JSt0rm]

It's boring because the trolls keep coming up with same nonsensical retorts when they're actually asked to provide some logic behind their positions.

"You cheap bastard!" 🙂

Maybe i dont need logic to give the single mother of 2 a 23% tip.

 

[openwheel]

It's super simple dude - other countries don't have a tipping culture, we don't need one either. Other industries don't have tipping cultures either.


y'all aint the special snowflakes you think you are.

That's weird, I remember seeing tipping in Europe. I am there more often than I'd like.

Oh you meant restaurants, well, here is one data I'd like to see, which restaurant industry is more alive? The USA, or Europe?

 

[Ns1]

That's weird, I remember seeing tipping in Europe. I am there more often than I'd like.

Oh you meant restaurants, well, here is one data I'd like to see, which restaurant industry is more alive? The USA, or Europe?

I'll just leave this here

https://www.scribd.com/doc/291800858/Michelin-Guide-Tokyo-2016-Full-List

:whiste:

 

[LTC8K6]

I think the people within this thread are straight forward on what we propose. Eliminate tipping, increase staff compensation, and we will pay for increased menu prices to fund it.

And we will accept business and job losses that will go along with it.

 

[zinfamous]

Maybe i dont need logic to give the single mother of 2 a 23% tip.

Or the restaurant owner, C Montgomery Burns, can stop being a cheap wise and beautiful woman and actually pay his employees, including the single mother of 2?

Crazy, I know, to adopt the successful models of the remaining 90% of the developed world.

 

[openwheel]

Michelin guide in Tokyo. WTF, wow that's great data.....

 

[Ns1]

Michelin guide in Tokyo. WTF, wow that's great data.....

 

[openwheel]

Or the restaurant owner, C Montgomery Burns, can stop being a cheap wise and beautiful woman and actually pay his employees, including the single mother of 2?

Crazy, I know, to adopt the successful models of the remaining 90% of the developed world.

and the US model is not successful?

 

[Genx87]

And we will accept business and job losses that will go along with it.

Why would there be business and job losses? Menu price increases will replace tips. The cost of the meal for an avg patron shouldnt change. Business owners will pass the cost of wages to the customer via menu prices.

 

[openwheel]

Who tips in Italy or Germany?

 

[Ns1]

Who tips in Italy or Germany?

Cheap assess.

 

[JSt0rm]

You know thats not causation though. There are many reasons why japan has more starred restaurants then the us. We are generally rural and places like los angeles dont have the refined palette needed to support a 3 star place. Too much yelp in our lives.

 

[zinfamous]

and the US model is not successful?

obviously that's not the argument-- the point being that it would actually have a neutral effect on success.

run along now, there is a watering hole that needs filling.

 

[JSt0rm]

obviously that's not the argument-- the point being that it would actually have a neutral effect on success.

run along now, there is a watering hole that needs filling.

Actually I showed a research paper from the same source that has per person averages higher with restaurants that have tips. i.e. they are selling you more stuff or being attentive to when the wine glass is empty 😉

 

[LTC8K6]

Why would there be business and job losses? Menu price increases will replace tips. The cost of the meal for an avg patron shouldnt change. Business owners will pass the cost of wages to the customer via menu prices.

Because of the $15/hr minimum wage. It will be too high for many small establishments. In many mom-n-pop places, the meal price is low, and a normal tip is one or two dollars. $10 for a home cooked meal, and a $2 tip.

Also, look at buffet places like Golden Corral. Tips there are very small, at best. They have waiters that are tipped employees.

In restaurants that are paying more than $15/hr for wait staff, some will certainly choose to make ends meet by hiring replacement workers at the new base of $15/hr., and getting rid of the higher priced labor. The thinking being that at $15/hr, they will get decent replacement employees, whereas at $8/hr they wouldn't.

 

[openwheel]

Actually I showed a research paper from the same source that has per person averages higher with restaurants that have tips. i.e. they are selling you more stuff or being attentive to when the wine glass is empty 😉

 

[Genx87]

Because of the $15/hr minimum wage. It will be too high for many small establishments. In many mom-n-pop places, the meal price is low, and a normal tip is one or two dollars. $10 for a home cooked meal, and a $2 tip.

Also, look at buffet places like Golden Corral. Tips there are very small, at best. They have waiters that are tipped employees.

In restaurants that are paying more than $15/hr for wait staff, some will certainly choose to make ends meet by hiring replacement workers at the new base of $15/hr., and getting rid of the higher priced labor. The thinking being that at $15/hr, they will get decent replacement employees, whereas at $8/hr they wouldn't.

This is a different topic though. The min wage being at 15 may be a problem. But that is seperate from the topic of eliminating tips imo. But the result may be the same when it comes to increased menu prices and redcued\no tips. At least in the short term.

 

[LTC8K6]

This is a different topic though. The min wage being at 15 may be a problem. But that is beyond the topic of eliminating tips imo. But the result may be the same when it comes to increased menu prices and redcued\no tips. At least in the short term.

Well, that's the thread title.

The reason to stop tipping is the $15 min wage.

Without a high min wage, I will still be tipping. 🙂

 

[Ns1]

That's weird, I remember seeing tipping in Europe. I am there more often than I'd like.

Oh you meant restaurants, well, here is one data I'd like to see, which restaurant industry is more alive? The USA, or Europe?

Still waiting for a response about how tipping produces superior results.

:whiste:

 

[JSt0rm]

Still waiting for a response about how tipping produces superior results.

:whiste:

I responded to that.

 

[fskimospy]

I responded to that.

Well first of all that's one outlier study as compared to the many, many other studies that show tipping is ineffective. That's the first thing to note.

The second thing is that higher table checks isn't even necessarily a good thing. My girlfriend used to be a server many years ago and whenever someone asked her for a recommendation she always steered them towards whatever was expensive, as she got more in tips. It's the same reason why you should avoid places that rely on commissioned sales if possible. When a salesperson has a financial interest in you spending as much money as possible you tend to get people focused on getting you to spend money rather than what you actually want. Even if we accept the outlier conclusion at face value it's a dubious 'benefit'.

 

[JSt0rm]

Well first of all that's one outlier study as compared to the many, many other studies that show tipping is ineffective. That's the first thing to note.

The second thing is that higher table checks isn't even necessarily a good thing. My girlfriend used to be a server many years ago and whenever someone asked her for a recommendation she always steered them towards whatever was expensive, as she got more in tips. It's the same reason why you should avoid places that rely on commissioned sales if possible. When a salesperson has a financial interest in you spending as much money as possible you tend to get people focused on getting you to spend money rather than what you actually want. Even if we accept the outlier conclusion at face value it's a dubious 'benefit'.

Really? Your gf wasnt good if she only steered people to high price items. Service begins and ends at giving the guest what they want. Great service professionals listen to what the gust wants and then makes suggestions based on that. For instance if you ask me to recommend a steak I may ask you how you like your steak cooked. This gives me more information to offer you a better selection.

Glad you accept that tipping incentivizes people to give more service though.

 

[fskimospy]

Really? Your gf wasnt good if she only steered people to high price items. Service begins and ends at giving the guest what they want. Great service professionals listen to what the gust wants and then makes suggestions based on that. For instance if you ask me to recommend a steak I may ask you how you like your steak cooked. This gives me more information to offer you a better selection.

That's exactly my point, she wasn't giving people good service by recommending expensive things. She was most likely increasing her per table sales though. Tip based payment gives servers an incentive to steer customers away from what they would actually enjoy the most and instead towards more expensive items. This could easily be used to further show how tipping is bad.

Glad you accept that tipping incentivizes people to give more service though.

I don't know where you got that idea. Regardless, more service often isn't better service. Are you willing to accept the conclusions of a broad array of research that tipping and service quality are not related or at best quite weakly related?

 

[JSt0rm]

lmao. You can increase your averages and give people what they want. Thats called being good at what you do.

And dude, I dont care about your research just like you didnt care about the research I pulled. I know what goes on in the industry. Go ahead and stop tipping people but you had better have the balls to tell them before they provide you service that you arent tipping them.

 

[fskimospy]

lmao. You can increase your averages and give people what they want. Thats called being good at what you do.

And you can increase your averages by pushing people towards things they don't want. Hence why an increased average per table is not necessarily indicative of a positive experience for customers.

And dude, I dont care about your research just like you didnt care about the research I pulled. I know what goes on in the industry. Go ahead and stop tipping people but you had better have the balls to tell them before they provide you service that you arent tipping them.

I care about your research, but we are both well aware it is an outlier. It even says so itself. The research that I linked represents the broad conclusions of a large number of studies. Yours doesn't. Why would they be equal? This is the same sort of science denial that climate change deniers use. Sure there are some studies that say climate change is insignificant or not happening, but it would be nuts to treat them the same as the conclusions of all the others, no?

If research going forward suddenly started showing that tips were in fact related to better service I would change my mind without a problem because that's what accepting science and research means. It's not only good when it tells you what you want to hear.