With $15/hr min in CA, #NoMoreTipping movement has solid footing?

[fskimospy]

We are linking to tipresearch.com now? I guess cheap bastards know a little site called Google? You guys think winning an argument is by Googling. No wonder you guys actually believe tipping has no effect on service quality. Most likely just a couple dudes with low paying jobs that can't afford a decent meal without pitching pennies for 18% tip.

Try openwheelhasbeautifuldick.com and let's end this lopsided discussion already, you cheap bastards are just embarrassing yourselves.

I'm pretty sure that you're the person embarrassing themselves. We brought facts, you brought emotional ranting and childish insults. It wasn't a fair fight, haha.

By the way you can't make me mad by insulting me so there's no point in trying. I just hope you learned something here.

 

[JSt0rm]

Read the part about per person average.

 

[fskimospy]

Read the part about per person average.

What's your point? The question isn't if you can find a single paper that agrees with you, your own paper acknowledges that my position is backed by the large majority of the research. There really isn't anything more to be said about it.

The research says tips don't lead to better service. If you don't like that I don't know what to tell you.

 

[JSt0rm]

Whatever dude. Go change the world one low edu tipped employee at a time. Feels good.

 

[sportage]

You realize waiters and waitresses out in Las Vegas are unionized, and have been earning a decent wage plus their tips for a long long time.
People adjust.
A tip is a tip. Better than piss in your food.
People will still reward good service with a tip in CA regardless of the minimum wage.
And anyway, what is the outrage over that?
Just because some middle class worker earns enough to pay the bills is not going to bring down the entire economy.
Nor lead the country into a taxpayer funded billion dollar bailout.
Perspective. Keep things in perspective. It's good for the mind.

 

[Zaap]

The positive effect is that servers make a shitload of money compared to everyone else in the restaurant industry. Wait, that's only positive for servers...

OH NOES it's so unfair someone else makes more money than anyone else!!!! Equality of outcome!! Equality of outcome!!!

Why the fuck would a dishwasher expect to get paid the same as tipped employee, who's being directly given the tip by the customer, because they interact with the customer? In what universe would that make sense?

To want to lower the tipped employee down to the level of the dishwasher- which is exactly what all the anti-tip morons are pushing for- is fucking retarded. Meanwhile, in NO equation does a dishwasher make less money simply because the tipped employee gets a tip. In the case of tip-sharing- the dishwasher, busboys, cooks etc. benefit from the tips. Otherwise- there's nothing about it that detracts from their own salaries.

But HOW DARE someone make more money!!! We can't have that!!


(Then next thread, same people: WAHHH! Where did all the high paying jobs go?! WAAAH McJobs!! WAHH Walmart! WAHH Outsourcing!)

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

OH NOES it's so unfair someone else makes more money than anyone else!!!! Equality of outcome!! Equality of outcome!!!

Why the fuck would a dishwasher expect to get paid the same as tipped employee, who's being directly given the tip by the customer, because they interact with the customer? In what universe would that make sense?

To want to lower the tipped employee down to the level of the dishwasher- which is exactly what all the anti-tip morons are pushing for- is fucking retarded. Meanwhile, in NO equation does a dishwasher make less money simply because the tipped employee gets a tip. In the case of tip-sharing- the dishwasher, busboys, cooks etc. benefit from the tips. Otherwise- there's nothing about it that detracts from their own salaries.

But HOW DARE someone make more money!!! We can't have that!!


(Then next thread, same people: WAHHH! Where did all the high paying jobs go?! WAAAH McJobs!! WAHH Walmart! WAHH Outsourcing!)

I have to agree here -

Most notably the likely differences between someone in the back vs. a server is partly communication related. One is likely to have experience dealing directly with customers, how to maintain a smile (regardless of how big of a douchebag the customer is), and have decent English speaking skills as well.

That is in addition to other skills, such as balancing shit on a serving tray... Fuck man, if I was a server I would have spilled shit everywhere 😀

 

[zinfamous]

for all you cheap bastards afraid of being called cheap bastards, here is the ultimate "study":

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/danny-meyer/

lol, that's exactly what I posted! ...or did I post an older, different one from Freakonomics. :hmm:

Anyway, thanks for reinforcing how correct everyone but you are. 😀

Oh and:
"I'm the real cheap bastard, but if I just call everyone else cheap bastards it will be true!"

derp.

 

[zinfamous]

It's pretty weird that these geniuses haven't thought through the obvious logical implications of their argument. If tipping people truly results in better performance that means we should expand it to large numbers of other, more important occupations.

If you're worried that if tipping is eliminated good waiters won't want to work or the good ones won't be rewarded, shouldn't you REALLY want to start tipping your oncologist??

low information thinkers.

Their overwhelming passions are blind to real data. The more passionate you are about an idea, the more true it is. Thus, the mind has no chance to challenge your stupid pre-conceived assumptions. Valid data then becomes noise or, worse yet: fraudulent. Of course, any type of data that rejects the absolute truth of passionate thought can only ever be fraudulent. And there are plenty of entities out there ready and waiting to capitalize on this type of low-information thinker. And these entities are extremely profitable.

This is a disease that can affect all humans very, very easily. It is certainly more prevalent in certain classes, though.

It's clear, though, that explaining this behavior to those afflicted by this disease is not only counterproductive, it enforces the roots of the disease and causes the victim to buckle down even more. As every assault on passionate truth is simply met with yet another wall of passionate rejection, with their allied corporate minders ready and waiting to fill their arsenal of passionate truth with truth-like talking points that reinforce their utter truthiness.

 

[zinfamous]

OH NOES it's so unfair someone else makes more money than anyone else!!!! Equality of outcome!! Equality of outcome!!!

Why the fuck would a dishwasher expect to get paid the same as tipped employee, who's being directly given the tip by the customer, because they interact with the customer? In what universe would that make sense?

To want to lower the tipped employee down to the level of the dishwasher- which is exactly what all the anti-tip morons are pushing for- is fucking retarded. Meanwhile, in NO equation does a dishwasher make less money simply because the tipped employee gets a tip. In the case of tip-sharing- the dishwasher, busboys, cooks etc. benefit from the tips. Otherwise- there's nothing about it that detracts from their own salaries.

But HOW DARE someone make more money!!! We can't have that!!


(Then next thread, same people: WAHHH! Where did all the high paying jobs go?! WAAAH McJobs!! WAHH Walmart! WAHH Outsourcing!)

Or you could actually wonder why the cooks are making far less then servers, due to tipping. Not everything is a slippery slope or equally and justly applied across all sectors. I suppose that attempting to place that argument where no one has made it, and where it doesn't belong reinforces some belief in truth that you hold. I dunno.

But this kind of challenging thought is rejected by your passionate truth. I'll back off and leave it time to ruminate. Perhaps to no use, but we'll see.

 

[Genx87]

For every "study" there is another "study" to counter. Let's not go there with more "studies" because someone else will link the same podcast again. 😀

The current system works because there are tons of turn-overs in the service industry. Career waitors are the minorities of minorities. Tiffany at Cheesecake Factory is putting herself through college waiting tables making $25-$40, she is not trying to "get by". She is saving for a trip backpacking the Alps at the same time. I applaud it and I would gladly tip extra couple bucks because I've been there and done that.

Some of you cheap bastards who ate ramen nooble playing counter strike until 2am through college days probably don't have decent job or still drowning in debt, so you take it out on the wait staff because you really couldn't afford that $40 steak in the first place. You guys want to create a sea of career wait staffs making $30/hr with full benefits. Are you guying trying to be one of these "career waitors"?

Am I right? 😎

I dont care why Tiffany is working at Cheesecake Factory. I want her employer to pay her what she is worth and not rely on his customers to close the gap.

There is nothing cheap about expecting a worker to be compensated fairly by their employer.

 

[Genx87]

How is the restaurant owner an "asshole" when the server applied for a job to be paid minimum wage plus tips?

I am going to ask Tiffany at Cheesecake Factory if she is thankful for her job with flexible schedule, or does she think her boss is an "asshole" to force her into that awful job.

Gee I wonder? Because the owner isnt paying the server a normal wage and instead expects his customers to fill in for his duty. The asshole in the exchange between the server and Jessie Jackson is the owner of the restaurant. Not Jessie Jackson. It isnt Jessie Jacksons job to pay the restaurant owners employees wage.

 

[Genx87]

You are nuts for tipping your server, especially the ugly ones.
You should demand the asshole restaurant owners to pay your server more so you don't have a tip. 😎

Now you are getting it! Having the employer paying the employee. What a novel concept every industry on the planet accepts as normal.

 

[Genx87]

Umm if they have people working for them at a wage then they are in fact paying a market rate.

Lmao if you think some guy who cuts vegetables for a living or washes dishes is gonna get a cut of that money. It will go to the chef, the sous chef and maybe the line cooks. MAYBE. in fact 90% wont get it. You dont need a high school education to be a line cook.

You understand the only reason why that wage is below what a market would pay is because of tipping and govt exclusions to the min wage in many states? No server is going to work for below min wage without tips. So take away tips and now they will be paid a normal wage for performing a service. Or the owner will have a restaurant that isnt staffed. Just like every other industry.

 

[Genx87]

LOL leave it to the KING of illogical spin to run with the absolute DUMBEST example.

Yeah,being a doctor is a service industry job. All those kids working their way through college doctoring between classes.

Single moms putting in a few doctor shifts before picking up the kids.

LOL! relax, if ever there was an absolute poster child for "its always up to someone else!!! Force someone else to do it!!!" Of course it would be you!

Eh a doctor is a service job. You understand what a service job is right?

 

[Genx87]

You are tipping because that's the model of the restaurant industry. The menu price is relatively lower because restaurant owners don't have to pay the wait staff $30/hour with benefit. The wait staff rely on tips for a decent pay while providing a comfortable, speedy and friendly service. You as the customer has the option to tip $0.01 as an insult, or $100 as a token of gratitude for extra attentive service.

The model works well here. Capitalism is in our blood. If you are too cheap to be a consumer in our system, then by all means stay with Panda Express, don't step foot into Panda Inn.

It wasnt the model 90 years ago.

 

[Genx87]

Exactly.

Picture a large table in a good restaurant. 15 people or so.

I'm gonna bust my ass waiting on them for an hour for a tip of 80, 90, $100 or more depending on the bill...

...or for $15 fucking bucks.

It's not even laughable.


Anti-tip idiots have just simply never had such a job to know how fucked the 2nd situation would be compared to the first.

"B-but!! It's fair to the shlub who would never have done a good enough job to pull $100 off a big table! Or similar busting your ass between 4 tables. He's happy with the $15! Everyone should be!"

Tell your boss to pay better. Seriously what is so complicated about eliminating tips and replacing it with a better wage? What other industry runs where an employee wont work with certain people or amounts of people and they keep their job?

 

[Genx87]

As I said those guys who own restaurants love the idea of raising prices 20% and telling you not to tip. They are making more money. Time will tell if this is the correct way to do things.

If this were the case why havent owners done this decades ago? Something tells me owners like the tip model because it allows them to have very low labor costs.

 

[Bitek]

I could see net % go down, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Wages are so low, I feel obligated to leave a tip otherwise it's like taking food off of their table.

I'd rather reward good service, where now tips act more punitive if they are low.

As a customer, I would rather not feel obligated to subsidize below-market wages.

 

[openwheel]

lol, that's exactly what I posted! ...or did I post an older, different one from Freakonomics. :hmm:

Anyway, thanks for reinforcing how correct everyone but you are. 😀

Oh and:
"I'm the real cheap bastard, but if I just call everyone else cheap bastards it will be true!"

derp.

Proof that the anti-tippers don't read, nor understand sarcasm. :thumbsup:

 

[openwheel]

If this were the case why havent owners done this decades ago? Something tells me owners like the tip model because it allows them to have very low labor costs.

No kidding, since you admit the owners like the tip model. Let's think this through:

Owners like the tip model.
Servers like the tip model.
Customers like the tip model.

Only the cheap bastards don't like to tip. 😱

 

[openwheel]

Tell your boss to pay better. Seriously what is so complicated about eliminating tips and replacing it with a better wage? What other industry runs where an employee wont work with certain people or amounts of people and they keep their job?

There are plenty of jobs that are incentive based.

 

[Genx87]

No kidding, since you admit the owners like the tip model. Let's think this through:

Owners like the tip model.
Servers like the tip model.
Customers like the tip model.

Only the cheap bastards don't like to tip. 😱

Yeah except customers dont like the tip model.

 

[Genx87]

There are plenty of jobs that are incentive based.

Incentive based and tip based are two different things.

 

[openwheel]

It wasnt the model 90 years ago.

How did it work out 90 years ago? LOL You want to go back to the middle age too?