Wisconsin court upholds voter ID law

[Texashiker]

Not arbitrarily. The state must demonstrate a compelling reason for such a restriction/burden. In the case of voting rights it's known as the Anderson/Burdick balancing test.

Reasons are subjective to the opinion at the time.

There was no "compelling reason" to slave ownership. It just happened to be accepted at the time.

 

[Bitek]

It is interesting the contortions you need to go through in order to concoct your voter fraud scenarios.

It's even more interesting that you think these outlandish scenarios represent a greater threat to the integrity of the system than the mass disenfranchisement of legitimate voters.

Oh wait, no it isn't. Those voters are the wrong type of voters.

Its amazing to read the ridiculous arguments made by conservatives for the photo ID laws, but it is the surest sign they don't have a sound position based on fact.

Why can't supporters come up with this simple cost/benefit breakdown:

Total avg error in elections: 0.5%
Error attributed to impersonation fraud: 0.25%
Error attributed to voting equipment:0.15%
All other error: 0.1%

Cost to implement photo ID; $45M
Cost to improve voting equipment: $500M
Estimated disenfranchisement due to lack of ID; 0.1%

Ergo, we can solve the largest source of election error for a modest cost that has a net benefit in election integrity. Boom, case closed, let's do this.


Instead, what do we have from the GOP?:

Total avg error in elections: [We don't know, didn't bother to find out]
Error attributed to impersonation fraud: 0.0%* [*Data? Lame! Just imagine that, like, ..{insert conspiracy}.. See?! Oh yeah, and guns!]
Error attributed to obsolete voting equipment:0.##% [urk, let's not talk about this.. TAX INCREASES! RUN!]
All other error: 0.?% [IDK? Mexicans, ISIS? Muslim Mexican drug mules? Why are we still talking about this? Who cares?]

Cost to implement photo ID; [huh?]
Cost to improve voting equipment: [Didn't we say tax increases? WTF?!!?]
Estimated disenfranchisement due to lack of ID; [who gives a shit, it's mostly blacks and students..Amirite? ]

 

[Texashiker]

Its amazing to read the ridiculous arguments made by conservatives for the photo ID laws, but it is the surest sign they don't have a sound position based on fact.

What facts? That rights can be suppressed and regulated?

Various states passed a law saying you need to show government issued photo id to vote. Deal with it.

Just as I have to show id to buy a gun, buy whiskey, and even pick up my medicine, so should others follow the same laws I am forced to follow.

Just because certain groups are too lazy to get an id does not mean they should be exempt. I had to show several forms of id just to go to college. Are libtards going to piss and moan about having to show id to go to college? What about buying a gun? Buy whiskey? Of course not.

Libtards live by a double standard. Yes you have to jump through hoops to buy a gun, but not to vote. That is a double standard on the exercising of our rights.

 

[Jhhnn]

What facts? That rights can be suppressed and regulated?

Various states passed a law saying you need to show government issued photo id to vote. Deal with it.

Just as I have to show id to buy a gun, buy whiskey, and even pick up my medicine, so should others follow the same laws I am forced to follow.

Just because certain groups are too lazy to get an id does not mean they should be exempt. I had to show several forms of id just to go to college. Are libtards going to piss and moan about having to show id to go to college? What about buying a gun? Buy whiskey? Of course not.

Libtards live by a double standard. Yes you have to jump through hoops to buy a gun, but not to vote. That is a double standard on the exercising of our rights.

Heh. None of those people have your signature on file from when you registered to vote, do they?

It's remarkable you you return to the "too lazy to get ID" meme when when you've been provided examples that aren't quite that simple, not by a long ways.

It pretty much shows us how conservatives use one lie to support another.

 

[Texashiker]

Heh. None of those people have your signature on file from when you registered to vote, do they?

It's remarkable you you return to the "too lazy to get ID" meme when when you've been provided examples that aren't quite that simple, not by a long ways.

It pretty much shows us how conservatives use one lie to support another.

Does requiring a SS number suppress you from working?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Does requiring a SS number suppress you from working?

You really don't understand how completely different that is do you? The number never changes. Never expires. You don't have to have the card to get a job. Just know the number. And the SSN actually serves a demonstrable purpose.

You'd have a far better point if we were discussing voter registration. Which we aren't.

 

[Texashiker]

You really don't understand how completely different that is do you?

There is no difference, expect you crybaby liberals need something to complain and whine about.

Someone offered you a job you would gladly handover whatever id they asked for.

But for some reason you excuse people who are not wiling to make the same effort to vote?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

There is no difference, expect you crybaby liberals need something to complain and whine about.

There are significant differences. Huge glaring ones which you choose to ignore since it defeats your entire argument. I've already spelled out a few of them.

SSN does not expire. IDs to vote do.
Don't have to present your SS card to get a job, you have to present the IDs to vote, which must be current.
You HAVE to have a SSN to function in society (read be gainfully employed). You don't need a current government issued photo ID to do the same.

To deny those difference is to deny you want to discuss this issue honestly.

 

[Texashiker]

There are significant differences.

Bull crap.

The difference is you do what is required of you.

Others sit around and whine and complain how oppressed they are.

 

[fskimospy]

Bull crap.

The difference is you do what is required of you.

Others sit around and whine and complain how oppressed they are.

You would be the expert on sitting around whining about how oppressed you are.

Lol.

 

[Victorian Gray]

There is no difference, expect you crybaby liberals need something to complain and whine about.

Someone offered you a job you would gladly handover whatever id they asked for.

But for some reason you excuse people who are not wiling to make the same effort to vote?

And yet every thread you start is you complaining and whining. Funny how that seems to work.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Bull crap.

The difference is you do what is required of you.

Others sit around and whine and complain how oppressed they are.

That's a mirror that you are looking at, not a window that you're looking through.

 

[her209]

Is gun ownership a fundamental right?

Is working a fundamental right?

Both require some form of id.

If gun ownership is a fundamental right, can the gun shop refuse to sell you a gun so long as you've met the state laws in being allowed to possess and have the money to pay for it? If they do, are they infringing on your rights?

Same question goes for a job. Are you entitled to a job if you're a legal citizen and meet the job requirements? Is the employer required to give you the job?

 

[Jhhnn]

Does requiring a SS number suppress you from working?

Doesn't matter, because it's false equivalency. Having a SS number makes me eligible for Govt benefits.

Show me the real fraud in "voter fraud" & we can talk, OK?

Until you can do that, there's no way to justify fucking over honest citizens whose ID may not be current when voting. It doesn't matter if they're relatively few in number, because there's no reason for it.

No Reason for it!

What part of that do you fail to comprehend?

 

[Texashiker]

You would be the expert on sitting around whining about how oppressed you are.

Lol.

Yes, I am oppressed. Just about everything I do in life requires some kind of id.

How do I join this special group who waltz through life with no id?

Doesn't matter, because it's false equivalency. Having a SS number makes me eligible for Govt benefits.

Show me the real fraud in "voter fraud" & we can talk, OK?

How about getting an id an enjoying the benefit of voting.

If gun ownership is a fundamental right, can the gun shop refuse to sell you a gun so long as you've met the state laws in being allowed to possess and have the money to pay for it? If they do, are they infringing on your rights?

The right to self defense is a human right that predates any known government.

 

[PlanetJosh]

I think I lean pretty much to the left as an independent but with all the news about Mexican illegal migrants I figured illegal immigrants would be the excuse and possibly a valid one for requiring photo IDs. The rationale being that lots of non citizen Mexicans would vote and it would be hard to tell whether or not they were valid voters at the polling places. Sorry I haven't read all the posts yet but can this be an understandable reason for conservatives to support photo ID laws? I'm just trying to see both sides of this.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I think I lean pretty much to the left as an independent but with all the news about Mexican illegal migrants I figured illegal immigrants would be the excuse and possibly a valid one for requiring photo IDs. The rationale being that lots of non citizen Mexicans would vote and it would be hard to tell whether or not they were valid voters at the polling places. Sorry I haven't read all the posts yet but can this be an understandable reason for conservatives to support photo ID laws? I'm just trying to see both sides of this.

Considering there have been millions of immigrants illegally in the US for countless election cycles and no sign of it being an issue before it would be hard to believe it would suddenly become one now. There have been occassions where people registered illegally but those are caught.

 

[PlanetJosh]

^ True but sometimes grass roots movements including among non citizens can form in a few months time. So the conservative could say it could crop up in an election in 2015. But if it doesn't happen in the next year or two then your point would be demonstrated I guess.

 

[Brainonska511]

^ True but sometimes grass roots movements including among non citizens can form in a few months time. So the conservative could say it could crop up in an election in 2015. But if it doesn't happen in the next year or two then your point would be demonstrated I guess.

So illegal immigrants, who are trying to stay below the radar, are going to undertake a high risk activity that could shine a large spotlight on their immigration status? That's a highly dubious scenario.

 

[werepossum]

If I have the right to buy a firearm and re-sell it, I should have a right to sell my vote too then.

How would that be different? Politicians promise to take money from other people and spend it on you (if not outright give it to you) in exchange for your vote.

Is gun ownership a fundamental right?

Is working a fundamental right?

Both require some form of id.

Thus the horrible inconvenience of the Democrat base.

You really don't understand how completely different that is do you? The number never changes. Never expires. You don't have to have the card to get a job. Just know the number. And the SSN actually serves a demonstrable purpose.

You'd have a far better point if we were discussing voter registration. Which we aren't.

There is a HUGE amount of fraud concerning Social Security numbers as well. That perhaps isn't your best choice of example.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

H

There is a HUGE amount of fraud concerning Social Security numbers as well. That perhaps isn't your best choice of example.

In the context of this thread and how it was being used, sure it is. In fact more so since there is a demonstrable need.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I think I lean pretty much to the left as an independent but with all the news about Mexican illegal migrants I figured illegal immigrants would be the excuse and possibly a valid one for requiring photo IDs. The rationale being that lots of non citizen Mexicans would vote and it would be hard to tell whether or not they were valid voters at the polling places. Sorry I haven't read all the posts yet but can this be an understandable reason for conservatives to support photo ID laws? I'm just trying to see both sides of this.

Yes, that's a pretty major problem in Wisconsin.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yes, that's a pretty major problem in Wisconsin.

Yep. It isn't even a big problem in Texas, at least with respect to voting. As the recent Federal judge's opinion in the SB14 case pointed out in several places (photo IDs would be ineffective, especially if someone had a fake ID), illegal immigrants don't go out of their way to vote, and some forms of permissible photo ID could be issued to noncitizens, making the ID rather illusory in terms of election security.

Even with respect to policing in-person voting, Representative Anchia testified that DPS officers had shown a collection of photo IDs to legislators and they could not tell which ones were fake,(147) leading him to conclude that poll workers would be no better at evaluating what IDs were authentic, a matter not addressed by the terms of SB 14.

....

But Representative Hernandez-Luna testified convincingly that illegal immigrants are not likely to try to vote. “They are living in the shadows. They don’t want any contact with the government for fear of being deported because that—I mean, my family was afraid to even go grocery shopping much less attempt to illegally vote.”(153)
...
Representative Todd Smith admitted that he had no facts to support his concerns about non-citizen voting, but was reacting to allegations.155 Furthermore, non-citizens (legal permanent residents and visa holders) can legally obtain a valid Texas driver’s license and a concealed handgun license,156 making the use of those IDs to prevent noncitizen voting rather illusory.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Yes, that's a pretty major problem in Wisconsin.

Now this should be a huge concern to anyone who wants to preserve the integrity of voting.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/...cle_062df082-5fea-5363-b498-c0c51aa5fa30.html

 

[Texashiker]

So illegal immigrants, who are trying to stay below the radar, are going to undertake a high risk activity that could shine a large spotlight on their immigration status? That's a highly dubious scenario.

I personally do not think the problem is illegals.

My personal opinion, the root of the problem is a certain demographic who wish to stay under the governments radar. More directly, the welfare / behind on child support / wanted for various warrants / hiding from something group.

What is the main reason for an able bodied adult not to have a government issued id? So the government does not know your address or personal details.

Without an address certain demographics can claim they are homeless. Since they are homeless they are entitled to government benefits.

To make sure the benefits keep rolling in they keep voting democrat.