Wireless routers?

[FOBSIDE]

I'm going to be setting up a wireless network for my parents and I don't know much about the hardware. I know to look at 802.11b access points, but brand, model, and build I don't know anything about. Is there anything that you guys recommend?

 

[rw120555]

I like Netgear. If I was buying from scratch, I would buy a Netgear router (which one doesn't matter too much) and a Netgear ME102 Wap. Or, I might buy a Netgear MR314 (Router plus Wap combined). For my desktops, I would buy USB client cards rather than PCI-based alternatives. As I understand it, USB cards tend to work better because of better antenna placement (that is also why I prefer a separate WAP & Router rahter than combo; it costs more but you can move the WAP around more easily to an optimal location.)

But, many other brands are fine too, and if you care to spend more you can get better stuff. Go to practicallynetworked.com if you'd like to see their reviews of equipment.

Also see What do I need for wireless networking.

 

[Fatt]

I second the netgear mr314 choice.

I use on myself.


One thing....

If your folks live in a rural or semi-rural setting where It's quite a distance to the road and/or nearest neighbor then use the WEP encryption.


If they live in an urban area where the street and the neighbors are pretty close then make sure you turn DHCP off and set up static routes for the machines that are allowed to have access.

 

[rw120555]

If your folks live in a rural or semi-rural setting where It's quite a distance to the road and/or nearest neighbor then use the WEP encryption.

Why? I would think just the opposite, security wouldn't be as much an issue in such a setting so leave WEP off and increase speed.

Then again, maybe the signal travels further in rural settings? Is that what you are thinking? Just curious.

 

[86plymouthcolt]

Forget wireless, go with phoneline networking in either Ethernet or USB flavors. It's not as sexy as wireless, but it works great.

Netgear XE602 Adapter

 

[rw120555]

Forget wireless, go with phoneline networking in either Ethernet or USB flavors. It's not as sexy as wireless, but it works great.

So why did you link to a powerline adapter? Anyway, I like HPNA too -- it is cheaper and I find it more reliable than wireless. But if laptops are involved wireless has great appeal. You can also mix and match methods, it doesn't only have to be hpna or wireless. Fobside, write back if you want more details.

 

[FOBSIDE]

i am interested in phoneline networking and wireless. i want to see all my options right now.

how fast is phoneline networking? ive heard about it. how easy is it to set up and maintain?

for wireless, how hard is it to set it up so the machines use static routes to keep other people from using it?

thanks for all the replies.

 

[rw120555]

This thread went over some of the wireless versus hpna issues and how you could mix together networks. For the official merchant line and more info on hpna, see http://www.homepna.org

HPNA 2.0 officially goes at 10 mbps but in practice seems to go maybe half that; but, if you mostly just want internet sharing, that is more than fast enough. Wireless goes at around the same speed, but newer wireless stuff is getting faster.

If super cheap is the goal, HPNA is the way to go. Once you start tossing in niceties like routers, the hpna price advantage starts to diminish, but I think it still has an edge.

Wireless is super-hot, so you may see more technological advances and price improvements coming on that end.

I have both hpna and wireless as part of my network. I find the hpna part more stable and reliable (but the roaming laptop is more fun).

Physical characteristics of your environment may affect your choice. If you don't have conveniently located phone jacks or have crummy phone wiring, hpna may not be viable. Conversely, wireless may have trouble reaching all corners of your house.

If you have a bunch of laptops and want mobility, wireless is the way to go. If all machines are desktops, it is a much closer choice.

As far as ease of setup and maintenance goes, neither is that hard, although if you're paranoid about security the wireless may keep you busier.

Wireless has significant security concerns, but you can protect yourself; see this thread for details.

If I were forced to choose one or the other for my house I personally would choose hpna; but as noted in some of the threads linked to above, you aren't necessarily limited to one or the other. I suspect I'm badly outnumbered here at AN when it comes to liking HPNA, so keep that in mind too.

This should give you enough to get you started! Write back if you want more specifics.

 

[rw120555]

Also, forgot to mention, a lot of powerline (aka homeplug) devices have come out lately. You plug these in to electrical outlets. Maybe these are as good or better as homepna, I don't know. The arguments for them would seem to be similar. You probably have even more electrical outlets than you do phone jacks. HPNA is more established and I think cheaper though. As far as I know, a network could mix powerline devices with others such as wireless.

 

[Fatt]

Originally posted by: rw120555

If your folks live in a rural or semi-rural setting where It's quite a distance to the road and/or nearest neighbor then use the WEP encryption.

Why? I would think just the opposite, security wouldn't be as much an issue in such a setting so leave WEP off and increase speed.

Then again, maybe the signal travels further in rural settings? Is that what you are thinking? Just curious.

No, what I'm thinking is that WEP is really marginal as a security measure but probably sufficient in a rural area.
In a more densely populated area I think it's a good idea to take a stronger security measure, specificaly against wardrivers, who are people that will try to log onto your network when they aren't supposed to. Once they get into your network they are already past your security measures.

So, yeah... if you're rural then you could likely get away with no security.
I just like to err on the side of caution.

 

[FOBSIDE]

ive decided on the Netgear MR314 802.11b Wireless Router for my access point. what about cards? does anyone recommend certain cards? i am looking for a desktop card right now but i might be looking into a laptop card as well when i go home. any recommendations? how much should this stuff cost?

 

[Fatt]

Orinoco Gold.

I think they cost about $89.

 

[FOBSIDE]

Originally posted by: Fatt
Orinoco Gold.

I think they cost about $89.

that seems kind of expensive especially when i get the router new for that much on ebay.

 

[rw120555]

Everybody says really good things about Orinoco though. I'm not sure what came with my laptop, but there are many times I wish I had a better card; might save you from having to buy a 2nd WAP or something. But, Netgear is probably ok too. For price comparisons, I always start with www.mysimon.com. www.pricewatch.com can be good too.

Incidentally, Netgear has a successor to the Mr314, called the fm114p. Haven't heard much about it, but it does have a few new bells and whistles, including a print server. Read about it here.

 

[Fatt]

Originally posted by: FOBSIDE

Originally posted by: Fatt
Orinoco Gold.

I think they cost about $89.

that seems kind of expensive especially when i get the router new for that much on ebay.

Well, if you think about it, both the wireless nic and the router have essentially the same components in them, only the card is far more minaturized.

 

[Salvador]

I've been looking at a wireless connection for some time now. My hardware of choice has been the SMC7004AWBR and Orinoco USB Gold for about 6 months now. Is this still a good setup? Anything better come to mind? How does it compare to the Netgear MR314?

Right now, I have the RT314 Netgear router, but thought that it would be a good idea just to go with a router with built in WAP. Should I just add a WAP to my existing router?

I haven't heard of the HPNA option and I'm glad that I read about it here tonight on this thread. 🙂 I do like the idea of roaming the house with a laptop, but that's not my primary reason for wanting to go wireless. I don't even have a laptop at the moment anyway. I have a remote room in the basement that would be a royal PITA to wire CAT5 to, so that's why I wanted to go wireless. I do have a phone line though and HPNA might be the best option for me for sure. I will have to definitely read more into it.

What would a good HPNA option cost me?

Sorry for all the questions..

TIA,

Sal

 

[Salvador]

Ok.. Sorry for posting so soon. How does this Netgear XE602 adapter configure into my network using my Netgear RT314 router?

This seems like a great solution to my problem. I'm so glad I decided to check the forums out this evening because I was all set to go ahead and buy my wireless setup.

Sal

 

[rw120555]

Right now, I have the RT314 Netgear router, but thought that it would be a good idea just to go with a router with built in WAP. Should I just add a WAP to my existing router?

I would add the WAP. More flexible placement, a few more bells and whistles if you want them. My WAP used to be in a crummy location by my router, but then I figured out how to move it since I also had HPNA.

I haven't heard of the HPNA option and I'm glad that I read about it here tonight on this thread. I do like the idea of roaming the house with a laptop, but that's not my primary reason for wanting to go wireless. I don't even have a laptop at the moment anyway. I have a remote room in the basement that would be a royal PITA to wire CAT5 to, so that's why I wanted to go wireless. I do have a phone line though and HPNA might be the best option for me for sure. I will have to definitely read more into it.

A key issue may be whether the remote location also makes it difficult to get a good wireless connection. I have problems with that in my house. Hard to tell until you try. Wireless is very desirable if you have laptops but for desktops I think HPNA is quite competitive.

What would a good HPNA option cost me?

A cheap solution could cost $50 (buy direct from Netgear), or less if you buy from Ebay. Just buy 2 hpna cards (make sure they are 2.0). Biggest downside is that it requires an always on pc to act as an internet server. A better solution is to buy an HPNA/Ethernet bridge, like the Netgear PE102 or the Linksys HPB200, + an HPNA card. Costs maybe $150, but that is probably still a little cheaper than wireless.

Like I mentioned before, see this thread for how you can combine different methods if it is advantageous to you. In my case, I have a little bit of everything. If I were starting from scratch, maybe I would have gone more wireless and less hpna, but I just don't think wireless would be able to work as well throughout my house as hpna does. Your situation may be different (unfortunately, until you try the stuff it is hard to tell! Just make sure you can return stuff, especially if it is fairly expensive wireless stuff that winds up not working.)

 

[rw120555]

The Xe602 is powerline. The idea is very similar to homepna, it is just that you use electrical outlets rather than phone jacks. You need 2 of them. One is plugged into your router and an electrical outlet. The other is plugged into an electrical outlet and a pc. Powerline is pretty new but it has been getting good reviews; it is a bit more expensive than hpna.

Read about the Xe602
here.

 

[Salvador]

I found the Netgear XE602 at Buy.com for $76.80 with free shipping. This is better than the Circuit City deal for $99.99 - $20 CC Rebate + tax.

How would I configure this device into my network using a Netgear RT314? Do I use my regular NIC's or do I need a special HPNA card to run with the XE602?

Thanks,

Sal

 

[rw120555]

This seems like a great solution to my problem. I'm so glad I decided to check the forums out this evening because I was all set to go ahead and buy my wireless setup

Incidentally, I am not sure that hpna or powerline is better for you; I'm mostly saying they may be good alternatives, especially if wireless reception is a problem. But if the wireless works great for your basement, you may be especially glad you went with it if you ever get a laptop. But if your main goal is to hook that basement machine up cheap and you don't mind the inconvenience of an always on server, go HPNA. And, you can always add wireless later if you do get a laptop.

 

[Salvador]

The Xe602 is powerline. The idea is very similar to homepna, it is just that you use electrical outlets rather than phone jacks. You need 2 of them. One is plugged into your router and an electrical outlet. The other is plugged into an electrical outlet and a pc. Powerline is pretty new but it has been getting good reviews; it is a bit more expensive than hpna.

Oh.. No wonder why I was getting confused. HPNA and powerline are different. We've been talking about phone lines and I kept reading about wall outlets with the XE602.

Hmmm.. I need two XE602's to connect one remote computer to the network then. Makes sense. I couldn't figure out how it would connect to the network otherwise. They aren't very clear in the documentation that you need a minimum of 2 devices to use powerline. Oh well.. I can live with $150-$160 if it's going to work well.

So.. If I wanted to add onto a powerline setup, I'd just add another XE602 per computer then, wouldn't I?

Last question. Would it be possible to connect multiple pc's at the remote location using 1 XE602 using something like a switch?

Many thanks!

Sal

 

[Salvador]

A better solution is to buy an HPNA/Ethernet bridge, like the Netgear PE102 or the Linksys HPB200, + an HPNA card. Costs maybe $150, but that is probably still a little cheaper than wireless.

Don't you think a powerline setup would be better than this for basically the same money? I can get 2 XE602's from Buy.com for $76.80 each shipped. Then I wouldn't need that extra piece of hardware like the PE102.

What if I added more than one computer in the remote basement room? Can you see one solution being better than another?

Sal

 

[rw120555]

Don't you think a powerline setup would be better than this for basically the same money? I can get 2 XE602's from Buy.com for $76.80 each shipped. Then I wouldn't need that extra piece of hardware like the PE102.

As I look at it, it appears the XE602 is the powerline equivalent of the PE102, i.e. if Netgear were being consistent it would call the Xe602 a powerline/ethernet bridge. Bridges are quite nice, because they do not require an always on pc server. So yes, assuming it works, this would be a very attractive setup.

The other thing that is nice about a bridge -- as you suggest, if you get multiple machines, you don't need an xe602 for each one of them. Instead, you get a switch, and connect the xe602 and the pcs to the same switch. And, if you ever want wireless, you could hook a WAP up to that switch too if you wanted.

Given that the Xe602 is cheaper than a PE102, I think buying 2 of them is a very attractive idea. I just can't vouch for them since I have never used them myself. And is either hpna or homeplug better than wireless in this case? I can't say, but it does appear either would be a little cheaper, and I suspect they'd be more reliable than wireless would.

 

[Salvador]

The other thing that is nice about a bridge -- as you suggest, if you get multiple machines, you don't need an xe602 for each one of them. Instead, you get a switch, and connect the xe602 and the pcs to the same switch. And, if you ever want wireless, you could hook a WAP up to that switch too if you wanted.

Excellent! That's exactly what I had in mind. I wanted to eventually get a switch for downstairs and run multiple pc's off of it. The room upstairs where I have my cable modem and router is a work office and I barely have room for my work pc in that room. The downstairs room would be for all of my "play" pc's and possibly a server or two. 😉

The other advantage that I see for the powerline technology is that I use my existing NIC's, which I have plenty of lying around. I don't have one HPNA card, so that would be an additional purchase. If I didn't run a switch, swapping pc's would be as easy as plugging my XE602 into another NIC on another machine.

Yet another advantage I see is being able to run a pc in a room that doesn't have a phone line. My house is 20 years old now and it doesn't have a phone jack in every room. I'd love to build a multimedia machine with tv out sometime and have it running in my living room, which incidentally doesn't have a phone jack handy, but does have a power outlet.

Given that the Xe602 is cheaper than a PE102, I think buying 2 of them is a very attractive idea. I just can't vouch for them since I have never used them myself. And is either hpna or homeplug better than wireless in this case? I can't say, but it does appear either would be a little cheaper, and I suspect they'd be more reliable than wireless would.

That's the question, isn't it? Which works better? The HPNA technology or the powerline technology? Does anyone have any comparisons? Advantages? Disadvantages of either? I do think that both would definitely be more reliable than wireless. That is why I'm really swinging this way for my desktop.

Thanks so much for the information this evening!!

Sal