Windows RT on last legs?

[OBLAMA2009]

Amazon and Walmart had them for $229 last week. I believe Costco has them for $229 right now as well. Without Office I'm sure but I was tempted to buy one just because.

isnt it just that all win tabs come with office preloaded? theyre not bundling the desktop software for you pc in addition are they?

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Microsoft should have built in a x86 to ARM instruction set converter. Built it right in to the core of the OS. Even if you took a 50% hit for every mhz in the conversion, most people would still want the ability to run legacy x86 apps over not being able to run them at all.

This is one area where I think there's a pretty clear difference between the way Microsoft and Apple handle things.

If (when?) Apple releases a ARM-based MacBook Air, I would bet money that there will be support for legacy OS X apps.

What boggles the mind is that the idea isn't really new. There's already work being done on XDA to do this. Imagine if the RT had come with the ability do native x86 apps out of the box. It couldn't run games, sure, but it would be able to run some basic apps people want that aren't available. Something like iTunes. Or the x86 version of Office. It would go a long way towards satisfying people and could have then been slowly phased out as more and more apps move to the Modern interface.

alternatively, they could just drop arm and focus on what people really want, which is low powered intel

 

[Graze]

Its superior to both Android and iOS as an OS, it just lacks apps

Sure it is!

 

[Super56K]

I'm still perplexed as to why they didn't just use the phone OS / ecosystem for ARM based tablets. Could've solved the no app complaints and simultaneously bolstered both phone and tablet developer momentum.

 

[jaedaliu]

RT is not going away because Modern UI is not going away. Microsoft is simply gambling on RT piggybacking on X86s huge install base to boost app count

There are clear advantages of RT: A stick to keep Intel in check, no legacy bloat, no X86 malware, easy to use for non-techies.

Its superior to both Android and iOS as an OS, it just lacks apps

I waited in line outside Microcenter to get a Surface on Black Friday. If the "advantage" is to keep intel in check, maybe it's time to return it.

The lack of apps is a huge turn-off. I'll use it for a few more days then decide if I want to return it. I got it for web browsing and Microsoft Office, but I guess I was expecting too much. The speed just isn't there, and the lack of google apps hurts more than I thought it would.

 

[Commodus]

I'm still perplexed as to why they didn't just use the phone OS / ecosystem for ARM based tablets. Could've solved the no app complaints and simultaneously bolstered both phone and tablet developer momentum.

Because this is Microsoft, and it believes that divine perfection is a Windows PC running Office. It was more important to get cross-compatibility with desktop apps than to focus on getting the best apps.

Someone ought to remind Microsoft that many people buy iPads and Android tablets precisely to get away from Windows PCs, which they associate with work and complexity. There are certainly some nice Windows tablets, but you should buy one because you like the total package, not because of one productivity suite.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I got it for web browsing and Microsoft Office

I played with my sister's one over the holiday and I have to say it does these two things well.

 

[Qwertilot]

The real idea was presumably meant to be pushing people to develop for the modern tablet style UI. Just like with including that interface so prominently in windows 8.

Really MS need/needed a lot of modern UI applications for windows tablets to make real sense. Conversly, once you presume a decent coverage of modern UI applications there's no great reason not to have a dedicated version for touch - lighter weight/dedicated etc.

The way they've gone about things does certainly seem very odd. Scaling up windows phone for tablets and keeping win8 with a purer desktop focus seems so obvious/rational that its a bit baffling they didn't. Do a special hook up for convertibles if you must. Must be some reasoning behind it of course.

Or maybe it was just something like not being able/willing to do a touch version of office.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

I waited in line outside Microcenter to get a Surface on Black Friday. If the "advantage" is to keep intel in check, maybe it's time to return it.

The lack of apps is a huge turn-off. I'll use it for a few more days then decide if I want to return it. I got it for web browsing and Microsoft Office, but I guess I was expecting too much. The speed just isn't there, and the lack of google apps hurts more than I thought it would.

Did you get the RT or Surface 2? There is a fairly massive difference in speed between the two.

Like i said, the apps are missing, but snap view multitasking, a "desktop" browser and full USB port makes it fairly unique among ARM tablets

http://*********/9VYf5MWyTn8

this guys videos illustrates some of the cool things you use a Surface for. Again, the apps are missing and if you want a tablet strictly for the apps then the iPad is clearly superior

 

[s44]

alternatively, they could just drop arm and focus on what people really want, which is low powered intel

This is why Bay Trail is outselling iPad, right?

The only people who particularly want low-powered Intel are geeks with either niche/legacy use cases or a rose-tinted vision of how legacy apps might work with touch.

 

[crashtestdummy]

This is why Bay Trail is outselling iPad, right?

The only people who particularly want low-powered Intel are geeks with either niche/legacy use cases or a rose-tinted vision of how legacy apps might work with touch.

It's more than legacy apps.

The most frustrating aspect of the Windows RT/Windows Phone space is that you're locked into getting apps from Microsoft. Granted, this is the case for iOS as well, but it goes against the best feature of x86 Windows (it's openness to third party hardware and software), and makes it difficult to compete with Android.

There are a lot of good reasons for why Microsoft does this (stability, UI consistency), but it also has the effect of forcing competing apps off their platform (Firefox, for example).

 

[Commodus]

It's more than legacy apps.

The most frustrating aspect of the Windows RT/Windows Phone space is that you're locked into getting apps from Microsoft. Granted, this is the case for iOS as well, but it goes against the best feature of x86 Windows (it's openness to third party hardware and software), and makes it difficult to compete with Android.

There are a lot of good reasons for why Microsoft does this (stability, UI consistency), but it also has the effect of forcing competing apps off their platform (Firefox, for example).

The key: if you do a proprietary app store, you have to do an absolutely superb job of it. Court developers, expose well-done apps and make the install process simple. The shop has to justify why third-party alternatives wouldn't be necessary; simply copying Apple isn't enough.

Apple and Google know how to do an app store well. BlackBerry doesn't. Microsoft is increasingly doing a better job for Windows Phone; on the desktop, though, it's still leaning too heavily on the assumption that developers will "naturally" want to write apps for Windows PCs.

 

[dagamer34]

Why do people believe running x86 apps on the desktop is the future of Windows? If you really believe that, I would call that pulling a Blackberry (believing that having a physical keyboard is so good nothing else matters).

Windows RT sucks right now. Pure and simple. But the belief that running desktop x86 apps makes Bay Trail tablets a competitor to the iPad is ludicrous because, and here's the key point, they will never be optimized for touch. And apps not optimized for touch have no business being on a tablet unless you thoroughly enjoy repeatedly tapping on targets designed for a mouse and keyboard. :hmm: In the long run, it is far better for Microsoft to work on getting more apps into the Windows Store than to say x86 desktop apps are enough, sit back, and do nothing.

If Microsoft actually waited for the point where it made sense to ditch the desktop for something new, they would already be doomed (and I mean seriously doomed as in loosing money, not this fake figment-of-people's-imagination crap when Microsoft is making record profits right now).

 

[desura]

I don't get the hate for RT. RT has several advantages of windows phone, and feels significantly more advanced and useful. Plus, it works on ARM processors.

Here's to hoping that they merge RT and windows phone.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

This is why Bay Trail is outselling iPad, right?

The only people who particularly want low-powered Intel are geeks with either niche/legacy use cases or a rose-tinted vision of how legacy apps might work with touch.

i didnt say bay trail was the answer. i think benchmarks show that bay trail is garbage. however if you had tablets with the power of current surface pros or even $300 pentium notebooks, and sold them for the price of cheap axe notebooks they would be very popular