Windows RT on last legs?

[Joe1987]

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green

Microsoft looks ready to kill off Windows RT, its version of Windows devised for chips based on ARM's architecture, judging by remarks by senior executive Julie Larson-Green.

Larson-Green, who is executive vice-president of Devices and Studios at Microsoft, said that the aim of Windows RT was "our first go at creating that more closed, turnkey experience [that Apple has on the iPad]…" but that Microsoft now has three mobile operating systems: "We have the Windows Phone OS. We have Windows RT and we have full Windows. We're not going to have three."

I've felt RT was too confusing for consumers, and it spreads Microsoft's focus too much to keep all three OS's viable. To me, Windows and Windows Phone makes much more sense and won't confuse consumers as much.

 

[Crono]

They have been hinting at merging RT and Windows Phone. RT will live on in WP.

MS will be down to two operating syatems next year. This is good news.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I hope they can unify their app stores, so an app I buy will run on phone, tablet, or PC.

 

[vi edit]

Baytrail equipped tablets running full win8 for less(MSRP) than RT based devices are the death knell for it.

 

[lopri]

Wow, this is a surprise. Not necessarily RT's demise, but the timing of it. Surface 2 came out only a couple months ago. Lumia 2520 just started pre-orders and commercials. (I think the Lumia looks pretty sleek)

I guess they thought it's better to give up on a platform now than to grow unsatisfied user base, who will eventually turn on them when they nix the RT. That leaves those who already invested in the system, however few they may be.

Before it's out, I thought RT was a similar thing to Windows Phone, just as iOS and Android have been for phones and tablets. I thought they hadn't had enough time to finish metro-fied Office and that was the only reason RT had "classic" mode. When I learned that there was almost the full Win32 userland beneath the RT's surface (no pun intended), I was shocked.

 

[poofyhairguy]

RT existed to get Intel to take mobile seriously. It worked. So RT can now go away.

That is why I never recommended a RT tablet. It was as dead as BB10 or Meego from day one.

 

[podspi]

Let's face it, with Bay Trail the writing is on the wall for ARM-based Windows tablets.

It isn't even a question of which one is better, they're close enough that the added x86-compatibility of Bay Trail makes the ARM version a non-starter.

 

[lopri]

But it wasn't just for the matter of hardware. Microsoft needed a clean break with legacy stuff to compete with iOS and Android in mobile. Unfortunately they were 1) not competitive enough, or 2) misguided.

 

[xSauronx]

Baytrail equipped tablets running full win8 for less(MSRP) than RT based devices are the death knell for it.

really, if i thought i could get rid of my asus transformer infinity for a decent chunk id probably get the dell venue 8 or 11. ive got windows 8 at home and am good with it and i keep finding issues with android devices that i dont run into with a pc os. not sure id want a win 8 phone, but im on us cellular and i dont think they have one anyways. i can live with my android phone, but the tablet always has some little thing that bugs me...and that infinity was supposed to be a very nice tablet (and mostly is)

 

[poofyhairguy]

But it wasn't just for the matter of hardware. Microsoft needed a clean break with legacy stuff to compete with iOS and Android in mobile. Unfortunately they were 1) not competitive enough, or 2) misguided.

Why do you think they needed a clean break, other than issues related to hardware like poor battery life and heat?

 

[s44]

Why do you think they needed a clean break, other than issues related to hardware like poor battery life and heat?

Desktop and programs that work awkwardly (at best) with touch.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Desktop and programs that work awkwardly (at best) with touch.

Well yeah, but isn't the point to hide that stuff behind Metro? "In theory" desktop apps should only come into play when a keyboard dock is used, right?

I mean, at the end of the day, there is not a technical reason that two ecosystems can't exist on the same OS. I know many x86 tablet users do use a lot of desktop apps, but isn't that really a problem of gaps in the current tablet app market?

 

[SnuggleTheBear]

I just bought a Surface RT from the sell off that was going on, because of this talking going around a few days ago and because the merger with Nokia. (I almost bought a Surface 2 a week or so ago.)

I'm not sure whether I want them to stop selling Windows RT or for them to merge Windows RT with Windows Phone. I personally don't need the x86 compatibility, and I doubt the average user probably does but it is a nice feature.
I like the idea of using the Windows Phone platform and moving that over to ARM tablets, but there are obviously missing features that would have to be added. I doubt they can just switch Windows Phone to Windows RT, because of the system requirements on the low end phones.

 

[notposting]

Let's face it, with Bay Trail the writing is on the wall for ARM-based Windows tablets.

It isn't even a question of which one is better, they're close enough that the added x86-compatibility of Bay Trail makes the ARM version a non-starter.

Dunno about that...but the current approach is not working, for me anyway (and judging from sales numbers, not working for a lot of people).

I think they will take the experience and drivers and work they've done with RT, and hopefully use that to fill out the backend of WP. VPN support for example, maybe even a more useful phone OS, allowing things like USB support (and with Windows drivers, perhaps for printers!?). A nice compromise between the Apple and Google models of a mobile OS, but with some benefits of the deep legacy MS world.

I would love a 7" portrait style Nokia tablet, running WP8 as is right now, let alone with whatever 8.1 brings. I do like the idea of the hybrids, especially since they can fill many roles for some people. For me though, when it's a regular computer, I prefer the desktop UI... (get off my lawn, Metro!).

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Baytrail equipped tablets running full win8 for less(MSRP) than RT based devices are the death knell for it.

yep

 

[DaveSimmons]

Yes, the Venue 8 Pro is $299 with Office (student version) from Dell as a cyber Monday deal.

I'd probably buy one, except it has no HDMI out.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

I think MS will wait it out. And eventually, when app parity is near, people will see it as a viable option for their mothers and grandmothers. Than maybe other manufacturers will get back on board.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

RT is not going away because Modern UI is not going away. Microsoft is simply gambling on RT piggybacking on X86s huge install base to boost app count

There are clear advantages of RT: A stick to keep Intel in check, no legacy bloat, no X86 malware, easy to use for non-techies.

Its superior to both Android and iOS as an OS, it just lacks apps

 

[theeedude]

I see MS merging RT tablet features and Windows Phone down the road to mirror Apple's OSX and iOS strategy. I think a touchscreen-desktop hybrid Windows 8/RT is a dud, especially for their bread and butter business desktop users who want nothing to do with Metro. MS has to give them an upgrade path from Windows 7, or their earnings will suffer.
MS will need to go back to a desktop centered Windows for PCs, and a touchscreen centered Windows for mobile devices like tablets and phones.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Yes, the Venue 8 Pro is $299 with Office (student version) from Dell as a cyber Monday deal.

I'd probably buy one, except it has no HDMI out.

is that even a sale price?

 

[Tsavo]

is that even a sale price?

Nah. I've seen it as low as $249.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

I see MS merging RT tablet features and Windows Phone down the road to mirror Apple's OSX and iOS strategy. I think a touchscreen-desktop hybrid Windows 8/RT is a dud, especially for their bread and butter business desktop users who want nothing to do with Metro. MS has to give them an upgrade path from Windows 7, or their earnings will suffer.
MS will need to go back to a desktop centered Windows for PCs, and a touchscreen centered Windows for mobile devices like tablets and phones.

you dont need metro on the desktop, esp when most pc's dont even have touch screens. instead of touch, ms should have gone for voice control. it would be awesome to be able to sit back in a chair and say "tab two", look at a link, "doubleclick", read, "back"

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

RT is not going anywhere, it's the future of windows. The win32 API will die a slow and miserable death a la DOS. What will likely happen is RT will merge with WP and there will be a unified tablet and phone OS.

This is a good strategy IMHO except for one thing. Desktop users. I'm still not seeing the path forward for them as all current metro apps are really only suited for touch environments.

 

[Phobic9]

is that even a sale price?

Amazon and Walmart had them for $229 last week. I believe Costco has them for $229 right now as well. Without Office I'm sure but I was tempted to buy one just because.

 

[bearxor]

Microsoft should have built in a x86 to ARM instruction set converter. Built it right in to the core of the OS. Even if you took a 50% hit for every mhz in the conversion, most people would still want the ability to run legacy x86 apps over not being able to run them at all.

This is one area where I think there's a pretty clear difference between the way Microsoft and Apple handle things.

If (when?) Apple releases a ARM-based MacBook Air, I would bet money that there will be support for legacy OS X apps.

What boggles the mind is that the idea isn't really new. There's already work being done on XDA to do this. Imagine if the RT had come with the ability do native x86 apps out of the box. It couldn't run games, sure, but it would be able to run some basic apps people want that aren't available. Something like iTunes. Or the x86 version of Office. It would go a long way towards satisfying people and could have then been slowly phased out as more and more apps move to the Modern interface.