Windows Is a Turd

[imagoon]

Linux is just a kernel. The generic system is more properly called a GNU system, but it was co-opted. The kernel is as replaceable as any other portion. Each distro is a distinct O/S, and is packaged according to the maintainer's needs and vision.

You don't. The same driver will work as long as the core system is the same.


It's not desirable to make everything the same. Systems are different because people have different needs. The world doesn't need another Windows.


What do you replace Metro(or insert unfavored environment here) with? The answer is you don't. You hack around the outside, or hope someone makes a half assed replacement for you. Amusing you finish off your argument with the strength of diversity and choice :^D

There was a point when the drivers needed to be tailored to the one or the other. From a real world view it is desirable. It is not desirable to have 46 different splits of code bases.

"What do you replace Metro(or insert unfavored environment here) with? The answer is you don't. You hack around the outside, or hope someone makes a half assed replacement for you. Amusing you finish off your argument with the strength of diversity and choice :^D"

Your example works perfectly for the current Linux gui environments as well. Assuming you are actually a programer, If the Libre developers decide they don't like your change they won't include it. What do you then? How about grandma? Maybe she doesn't like the KDE toolbar? Feel free to hold her hand and explain how to code and compile it in. Or maybe she will just download a "half assed replacement" package.

Libre certainly isn't superior, it is just the same package with a different color bow. If anything the recent Heartbleed exploit should show that is has the exact same faults as closed software. Except there is no money so there is minimal motivation to do code checking.

I do find it amusing that Redhat makes more money off the free software than most software houses in the world though. They also maintain a stable environment and do regressive testing so it isn't really a surprise. They add everything that is missing and make the package whole.

 

[ninaholic37]

Doesn't XP complain about activation running it in a vm? I haven't done that in years, and can't remember how it reacts.

I never had any issues installing/activating XP inside a VM (VMWare).

 

[escrow4]

Here is a fun fact, the place I work runs Win 7 in the back and at least one on the floor, this is the bread and butter SAP program/email on Ivy Bridge "S" i5's. Great right? The registers run on a Celeron from 2006 with XP SP3. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And Linux, eh, I run it on my server as its free but its still a failure on the desktop. Things either don't work, or work poorly and its all over the place. With 8, you have an 8 driver, and guess what, it works with full functionality.

 

[Morbus]

I have no clue, sorry. If I'm honest, I can't say I ever ran a legally activated Windows XP.

 

[ninaholic37]

Here's an interesting quote:

Windows users who try to use their existing skills and habits generally also find themselves having many issues (in Linux). In fact, Windows "Power Users" frequently have more problems with Linux than people with little or no computer experience, for this very reason. Typically, the most vehement "Linux is not ready for the desktop yet" arguments come from ingrained Windows users who reason that if they couldn't make the switch, a less-experienced user has no chance. But this is the exact opposite of the truth.

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I guess that quote could apply to both sides: Windows or Linux "Power Users" are both so set-in-their-ways that it makes the other OS's issues seem more confusing/frustrating to them than to an average user.

 

[theevilsharpie]

There was a point when the drivers needed to be tailored to the one or the other.

I've used desktop Linux since the late '90s, and I've never had to switch to a different driver to use a different desktop environment. I'm calling bullshit unless you can provide a source for this.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Saying exactly what's wrong would be great, but I'd be happy with a clue pointing in the right direction. Here's what I get launching gimp from a terminal...

The errors are from an old theme, with deprecated attributes. It doesn't affect operation, but if it were really an issue, it points to a way to fix it.

GIMP is providing console output because it's programmed to do so. Windows applications can do the same thing, although most applications don't bother because they are rarely started from the command line.

Although you could blame the GUI-oriented culture of Windows for the lack of troubleshooting information, your troubleshooting problems weren't Windows' fault directly.

 

[Matt1970]

In my WinXP experience it eventually destabilizes itself to the point where the user just gives up and formats, but maybe that was just me. :whiste:

My Win7 install though, purring like a kitten since 2009.

Same here.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I have no clue, sorry. If I'm honest, I can't say I ever ran a legally activated Windows XP.

The XP era was rife with piracy. The way that I got my OSes, was that a relative bought them, and I got the hand-me-downs when they upgraded. (Althought, I do own two retail-boxed copies of XP as well.)

Anyways, I moved out on my own again, and then when Windows 7 came out, I ordered as many of the pre-order copies as I could, then when the family packs came out, I ordered quite a few of those as well.

So I became fully-legit with Windows 7.

Now I'm getting interested in Linux, but I still run Windows 7 on my HTPC because of MagicJack. Otherwise, it would be Linux.

 

[imagoon]

I've used desktop Linux since the late '90s, and I've never had to switch to a different driver to use a different desktop environment. I'm calling bullshit unless you can provide a source for this.

Were you running KDE during the GTK 2 to 3 transition? There was a period there where you needed to install a different video driver (esp for nvidia) if you wanted anything close to a stable KDE shell. I'll see if I can find a direct source but I see it mentioned in articles about GTK 3 instability etc.

 

[lxskllr]

Were you running KDE during the GTK 2 to 3 transition? There was a period there where you needed to install a different video driver (esp for nvidia) if you wanted anything close to a stable KDE shell. I'll see if I can find a direct source but I see it mentioned in articles about GTK 3 instability etc.

KDE uses Qt. There's no GTK in there...

 

[Elixer]

Hmm.. this is like cherry picking things.
There have been many times in linux where the error message was so obscure, you couldn't make heads or tails of it, unless you really know your stuff.

Could windows be better ? You bet.
Same can be said for linux though.

 

[imagoon]

KDE uses Qt. There's no GTK in there...

Shrug I probably have my APIs names mismatched then. I mean they seem to think they need 46 of them with everyone forking everyone else. All I know is KDE4 stability sucked nuts until I swapped out one of the video drivers per a random forum post. One of the many reasons they are only 1.5% of the desktops.

It is getting close to attempt 2014 of installing on a computer and seeing if they have managed to get it to work yet.

2013 was met with wireless issues, ACPI issues that led to filesystem eating itself and inability to sleep or hibernate on a laptop built in 2010.

Same laptop ran Windows fine so I am pretty sure the hardware is good.

 

[imagoon]

Hmm.. this is like cherry picking things.
There have been many times in linux where the error message was so obscure, you couldn't make heads or tails of it, unless you really know your stuff.

Could windows be better ? You bet.
Same can be said for linux though.

Pretty much. I am likely being taken off as Linux hater but in reality I keep trying to use it. The problem is that I eventually give up on getting it running after a couple of days to 2 weeks.

My last attempt required me to mess around with the wireless adapter on the laptop every time it booted. The specific error message I was getting was pretty generic because it was coming from some thing higher up the chain than the driver I guess. I switched out the driver with manufacture drivers and had different issues etc etc. All I wanted it to do for the test was act as an audio streaming device for my garage also. When wireless worked it generally did that ok until the sound cut out and wouldn't come back until I restarted X. No idea on that one.

 

[VirtualLarry]

My friend running Mint has issues with his screen turning black, and having to log in again, and when that happens, it cuts off his Skype conversations.

I think that it is the DE going into monitor sleep mode / locking itself due to inactivity, but it happens to him out of the blue when he is in the middle of doing things, and he has disabled sleep timeouts.

I wonder if it was the video driver crashing and re-starting, but I don't know.

He is using an AMD desktop APU system.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Windows XP is 13 years old. Try running a 13 year old version of linux and see how user friendly it is for the average person.

And no, command line logs aren't user friendly for the average person.

 

[Mushkins]

I know i'm going to regret hopping into this thread, but that example "tell all" Linux error looks just as obscure as 90% of the windows error logs I sift through on a daily basis. Can I sit there and dissect what it's trying to tell me? Yeah, if I really look into it, but it's definitely not as simple as the log just saying "There's a missing file at XYZ, please update to the latest version of ABC."

An improperly passed argument is not the shining example of a clear error message, anyone without programming experience isn't going to have a clue what that means or where to look to fix it.

 

[B-Riz]

This. I hated XP when it was new, and I still hate it today. I don't think it's built to be fixed. It's built to be wiped and reinstalled.

How true.

It got to the point with some people that I just had them buy a 2nd hard drive to backup the old install (and personal files) as it was easier just to format the main drive and re-install XP. (until I could persuade them that Windows 7 was worth the money)

Anyone too cheap had the HDD partitioned so the OS could be wiped and re-installed as needed...

 

[Zargon]

so let me get this straight

What pissed me off is the absolute lack of information. No console output, no nothin'. There may have been something in the logs, but Windows logs usually suck, and I didn't feel like looking through tons of nonsense for a possible useful gem

you are mad you had no information, but you mention you didn't look for it, where it puts that info?

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook

 

[Red Squirrel]

I sometimes get frustrated at some of the quirks in Linux, but when I'm using Windows it does not take long to remind me just how much more annoying windows is. When there's an error in Windows, it's basically saying this:

"An error occurred because of reasons. Contact your system administrator"

BUT I AM the system administrator!

Or the best is when it says to check the log. I AM checking the log! Linux errors arn't always very meaningful but at least you have something you can google. If you really want to get right into the source, you always can, too. Though I've never actually got that far myself, but it's nice to know the option is there.

 

[Morbus]

Yeah, that one thing about the administrator drives me nuts too. But not as much as the whole "app" instead of "program" thing on Windows 8. THAT is the work of Satan, no doubt about it.