Windows Is a Turd

[lxskllr]

I got roped into fixing a coworker's XP SP2 computer last week. Booted fine, no taskbar or desktop icons, and no error messages. I ran a couple malware scans, found a few things, but they didn't look relevant to the problem, and didn't fix it. Stopping Explorer and restarting it did nothing.

What pissed me off is the absolute lack of information. No console output, no nothin'. There may have been something in the logs, but Windows logs usually suck, and I didn't feel like looking through tons of nonsense for a possible useful gem. I fixed it by installing SP3. It should have been done anyway, but the guy didn't want it, and if there's a future issue, there's no more SPs to fix it.

tl;dr
Why the hell doesn't Windows tell you when something doesn't work?!

 

[gorcorps]

If it was smart enough to tell you exactly what's wrong, then it could fixed itself.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

Your first mistake was trying to fix a computer with Windows XP. Let it die already.

 

[lxskllr]

If it was smart enough to tell you exactly what's wrong, then it could fixed itself.

Saying exactly what's wrong would be great, but I'd be happy with a clue pointing in the right direction. Here's what I get launching gimp from a terminal...

The errors are from an old theme, with deprecated attributes. It doesn't affect operation, but if it were really an issue, it points to a way to fix it.

 

[William Gaatjes]

If i remember correctly, no taskbar and no icons means there is no explorer.exe process running.
When on a rare occasion my explorer would hang while using WXP, i would just kill all explorers.exe processes. When i killed the last one, the taskbar and the desktop would disappear. Then i would just execute from the task manager a new explorer.exe and my taskbar and desktop icons would reappear. And have a functioning windows again.

 

[Jaskalas]

In my WinXP experience it eventually destabilizes itself to the point where the user just gives up and formats, but maybe that was just me. :whiste:

My Win7 install though, purring like a kitten since 2009.

 

[mmntech]

Your first mistake was trying to fix a computer with Windows XP. Let it die already.

This. I hated XP when it was new, and I still hate it today. I don't think it's built to be fixed. It's built to be wiped and reinstalled.

 

[Number1]

Saying exactly what's wrong would be great, but I'd be happy with a clue pointing in the right direction. Here's what I get launching gimp from a terminal...

The errors are from an old theme, with deprecated attributes. It doesn't affect operation, but if it were really an issue, it points to a way to fix it.

Something only a dork like you would appreciate and as you said, had you "coworker" kept his system up to date, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO ISSUES.

 

[blankslate]

Your first mistake was trying to fix a computer with Windows XP. Let it die already.

This. I hated XP when it was new, and I still hate it today. I don't think it's built to be fixed. It's built to be wiped and reinstalled.

Also, people tend to treat computers like calculators, TVs and such and assume they don't need any kind of maintenance.
If the computer owner is the type to neglect maintenance on their vehicle then their windows install is probably going to be fubared eventually.

Windows 7 is pretty decent. Since the 8.1 update 1 is out for Windows I may just try 8 now.

 

[blankslate]

If i remember correctly, no taskbar and no icons means there is no explorer.exe process running.
When on a rare occasion my explorer would hang while using WXP, i would just kill all explorers.exe processes. When i killed the last one, the taskbar and the desktop would disappear. Then i would just execute from the task manager a new explorer.exe and my taskbar and desktop icons would reappear. And have a functioning windows again.

True enough but from the lxskllr's description do you think that the person who's computer that he got conned in to trying to fix would remember that even it was explained in 6th grader language and written out step by step on a sheet of paper?

I'm betting on no.

It's a moot point anyway. XP is dead as far as security updates though and only the foolish would use it online.

...

 

[Morbus]

The real question here is: why the hell are you still using XP?

Friend of mine asks me to fix their XP machine, first thing I do is install Windows 7 or Linux Mint. No questions asked, not complains answered.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Also, people tend to treat computers like calculators, TVs and such and assume they don't need any kind of maintenance.
If the computer owner is the type to neglect maintenance on their vehicle then their windows install is probably going to be fubared eventually.

Windows 7 is pretty decent. Since the 8.1 update 1 is out for Windows I may just try 8 now.

And that's why all the Mainstreamers are taking to mobile devices like ducks take to water. No fuss -- no bother -- no mess. Just less obvious security risks that seem more in the news these days than the security risks of XP because MS terminated further support.

I used XP Pro for a "server-OS" in my house for a few years. I think I even deployed an add-in program to make it a DHCP server until we got off dial-up internet and jumped on the broadband band-wagon. It never crashed! I never lost my data! But maintenance? Yes.

The remaining IT gurus of the desktop era may eventually become like model-train enthusiasts -- playing with their software, OS's and hardware while everybody else is punched in to the StarTrek tele-porter -- getting beamed up.

Who can say? It's the future -- whatever it is. That's why they call it "the Fuuuu-ture . . . "

 

[lxskllr]

The real question here is: why the hell are you still using XP?

Friend of mine asks me to fix their XP machine, first thing I do is install Windows 7 or Linux Mint. No questions asked, not complains answered.

Generally I'd agree. If it were a routine machine, I'd give them their choice of GNU/Linux, and it would be the last time I had to deal with it. In this particular case, he needs to run an ancient version of AutoCAD, and the installation discs got stolen. When this computer dies, so does AutoCAD, and that's an expensive problem. A project I've wanted to work on, is getting it to run in Wine, or perhaps in an XP vm, but I've been too busy to try. It probably won't even work, but I'm hoping the installation/DRM is primitive enough to work around since it's so old.

 

[Mem]

Your first mistake was trying to fix a computer with Windows XP. Let it die already.

QFT!....Linux would of been much better then trying to fix unsupported and outdated OS.

 

[norseamd]

microsoft can do great things like apple but generally they are a big business company who never actually care about what they can do or should do

hopefully linux takes off

 

[blankslate]

In this particular case, he needs to run an ancient version of AutoCAD, and the installation discs got stolen.

That is a problem. Hopefully you got a six pack of decent beer or a meal for your troubles.




.....

 

[JackMDS]

Before Second World War the predominant advance medications were based on Sulfur (.

It saved a lot of life.

Then came the modern Antibiotic type of Medication (Penicillin, Cipro types as an example) and its took the place of most usage of Sulfur based Medication.

During the last 50 years modern Antibiotic type saved many more life then Sulfur based medication.

Here and there Sulfa is still used for special purposes but almost No one would argue that it is in general Better than modern Antibiotic.


Unfortunately taking one little white pill or another does not make a difference to main stream Humans.


Changing the OS needs some learning and changing few simple habits in the use of the computer.


I guess that learning some simple new tasks, and changing few habits is equal to Armageddon according to many in this neck in the woods.

 

[quikah]

hopefully linux takes off

It has had 15 years to take off, it's not happening.

 

[imagoon]

While XP should die, Windows does give logs, you just need to know where to look. They also tend to all be in the logfiles folder in the system directory. Unlike linux that give you an error, then leads to you looking it up on a forum where you hope that someone there figured out the issue through one of 73 ways suggested to fix it. Let alone that no distro wants to put things like logs, configurations or even the start scripts in the same location or even the same format at times. The fact that you use a theme error as and example is mildly amusing as some thing that simple really shouldn't cause applications to not start.

In addition I have never had Linux install correctly once on anything I own. Getting drivers off of the repo is fine but when it gets to the point that I need to compile crap or use one of 3 wifi wrappers that all fail in different ways and then have sound issues the stem from 3 differing sound systems that all vary from distro to distro... The day of the Linux desktop is still far off. Until a company solidifies the system, like Google did to Android and then tries to offer a true desktop it will keep on being like it has for the last 15 years and the "Linux desktop is coming soon."

I manage both and I simply waste more time managing the Linux systems. There isn't a good system that works correctly like Group Policy to manage them. They basically are pita in the enterprise. I also find that most of the "linux avocates" just seem to never bother to learn the other sides and then complain long and hard about any other OS. As much as I want to see Linux succeed to give MS so competition, it simply won't take over until the people designing it take the time to look at what they are actually competing with and develop some sort of cohesive vision.

 

[lxskllr]

The fact that you use a theme error as and example is mildly amusing as some thing that simple really shouldn't cause applications to not start.

It didn't prevent anything from starting. It was used merely as an example of the useful messages you get. It's just some deprecated GTK calls, and everything works as expected. If it didn't work as expected, I would be told why, and the problem can be fixed.

In addition I have never had Linux install correctly once on anything I own.

Don't know what to tell you. It works for millions of other people.

Getting drivers off of the repo is fine but when it gets to the point that I need to compile crap or use one of 3 wifi wrappers that all fail in different ways and then have sound issues the stem from 3 differing sound systems that all vary from distro to distro...

I have exactly zero self compiled programs on my current system. I've done it in the past, and I appreciate the ability to do so due to libre code. Beats the hell out of whining to a dev to support your system. Distro to distro differences don't matter. That's like complaining Windows binaries don't run on OSX. A distro is a self contained, and distinct O/S. It's nice when they're similar to each other, but it shouldn't be expected. You run RedHat binaries on RedHat machines, and Debian binaries on Debian machines. If you want to share between them, you might have some work to do, but in the end, it will work.

The day of the Linux desktop is still far off. Until a company solidifies the system, like Google did to Android and then tries to offer a true desktop it will keep on being like it has for the last 15 years and the "Linux desktop is coming soon."

"Year Of The Linux[sic] Desktop" is a running joke. It doesn't matter. It's important, and remains important regardless of market share.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I fixed it by installing SP3. It should have been done anyway, but the guy didn't want it, and if there's a future issue, there's no more SPs to fix it.

That -might- be the issue. A lot of "newer" software requires SP3 to work properly. Had some problems like those you describe myself. They went away with SP3 installed.

Why the hell doesn't Windows tell you when something doesn't work?!

Ah, that'd be one of life's little mysteries...

 

[imagoon]

It didn't prevent anything from starting. It was used merely as an example of the useful messages you get. It's just some deprecated GTK calls, and everything works as expected. If it didn't work as expected, I would be told why, and the problem can be fixed.


Don't know what to tell you. It works for millions of other people.


I have exactly zero self compiled programs on my current system. I've done it in the past, and I appreciate the ability to do so due to libre code. Beats the hell out of whining to a dev to support your system. Distro to distro differences don't matter. That's like complaining Windows binaries don't run on OSX. A distro is a self contained, and distinct O/S. It's nice when they're similar to each other, but it shouldn't be expected. You run RedHat binaries on RedHat machines, and Debian binaries on Debian machines. If you want to share between them, you might have some work to do, but in the end, it will work.


"Year Of The Linux[sic] Desktop" is a running joke. It doesn't matter. It's important, and remains important regardless of market share.

I define a proper install as anything that installs and then gets its drivers from the repo. If wireless doesn't work and then the drivers that are downloaded fail to work, and then the drivers off the manufactures site fail to work, it is a failed install. I should have to go in and start hand tweaking setting, loading kernel modules via insmod building wrappers for windows drivers etc.

Other than 10+ year old hardware, we don't need to whine at a dev to build drivers. They support it because Windows XP from ten years ago will generally still run the same drivers and windows XP today. Even at the death of XP is has better hardware support than most distros do.

Also a distro is a distro. It is not a distinct OS. Linux is Linux as long as it runs Linus' kernel. It is all the cruft and crap the "libre" movement slaps on top that is different. Is there any good reason why in cases past you needed a different video driver for Gnome vs KDE? If the libre movement can't agree on low level stuff like the file systems and the GTK API then they are never going to get any serious movement. Windows drivers won't run on OSX, that is obvious because it is an entirely different operating system. Your example of Redhat vs Debian is entirely a joke. Any serious dev house is going to bother writing drivers for Debian, Redhat, Mint, and etc. It is a waste of their time and money.

As for the Linux, you continue to enjoy your important 1.5% of the desktop market. It should tell the Libre developers something when Windows Vista beats them by nearly double. I mean seriously... who came up with Unity? What a horrible implementation of a desktop. First thing I feel I need to do is replace that junk with KDE.

 

[lxskllr]

Also a distro is a distro. It is not a distinct OS. Linux is Linux as long as it runs Linus' kernel.

Linux is just a kernel. The generic system is more properly called a GNU system, but it was co-opted. The kernel is as replaceable as any other portion. Each distro is a distinct O/S, and is packaged according to the maintainer's needs and vision.

Is there any good reason why in cases past you needed a different video driver for Gnome vs KDE?

You don't. The same driver will work as long as the core system is the same.

If the libre movement can't agree on low level stuff like the file systems and the GTK API then they are never going to get any serious movement.

It's not desirable to make everything the same. Systems are different because people have different needs. The world doesn't need another Windows.

I mean seriously... who came up with Unity? What a horrible implementation of a desktop. First thing I feel I need to do is replace that junk with KDE.

What do you replace Metro(or insert unfavored environment here) with? The answer is you don't. You hack around the outside, or hope someone makes a half assed replacement for you. Amusing you finish off your argument with the strength of diversity and choice :^D

 

[Morbus]

And that's why all the Mainstreamers are taking to mobile devices like ducks take to water. No fuss -- no bother -- no mess. Just less obvious security risks that seem more in the news these days than the security risks of XP because MS terminated further support.

Good flipping riddance, bloody mainstreamers. They were never welcome to the desktop scene to begin with.

Generally I'd agree. If it were a routine machine, I'd give them their choice of GNU/Linux, and it would be the last time I had to deal with it. In this particular case, he needs to run an ancient version of AutoCAD, and the installation discs got stolen. When this computer dies, so does AutoCAD, and that's an expensive problem. A project I've wanted to work on, is getting it to run in Wine, or perhaps in an XP vm, but I've been too busy to try. It probably won't even work, but I'm hoping the installation/DRM is primitive enough to work around since it's so old.

Well, if he doesn't have a WORKING full image of the hard drive as a back up, then it's his fault. That image could even be used in a virtual machine, very easy, gets around the whole security issue, it's cleaner and safer.

That's my advice to you, honestly.

 

[lxskllr]

Well, if he doesn't have a WORKING full image of the hard drive as a back up, then it's his fault. That image could even be used in a virtual machine, very easy, gets around the whole security issue, it's cleaner and safer.

That's my advice to you, honestly.

I imaged the broken install, but didn't get a chance to image it after installing SP3. I wanted to get the machine to him for the weekend. Doesn't XP complain about activation running it in a vm? I haven't done that in years, and can't remember how it reacts.