Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around

[pmv]

For a Mac guy liberated form Windows several years ago, I recently bought an windows 8 touch screen based machine to play around with and see what all the hubbub was about.
I find windows 8 interesting. I would suggest windows people of old versions just take the time to learn the new os as is. My touch screen win 8 machine has an option to default back to a more windows 7 look, if desired. I hated that option. A real cop out in my opinion.
Just think outside the box and learn something new, something different.
The ability to learn the new in itself will pay off long term, since change is something not easily taken to.
Win 8 is indeed different and challenging, for me that was the draw. The desire.
Whether this new look is all fluff or has some real meat to it only Microsoft knows for sure.
But as life and technology changes, so will gadgets and operating systems to run those gadgets.
Once you go Mac you'll never go back. But I am finding windows 8 a refreshing challenge.
Surprising considering this came from Microsoft.
A lot more information and the addition of live update is for me a plus.
Seems so much more productive in itself.
I can see where MS was coming from with developing windows 8.
I would think loyal windows customers would be happy to see this evolution come about.
Take the time to take it in.

Why is your post formatted as a prose poem, by the way?

And why are defenders of Windows 8 so patronising?

 

[pmv]

Not true. I find that for general everyday use Win8 is far more efficient and superior than the old versions. Granted I am not the uber 1337 hacker that needs total access to my PC right away at all times, but I like how clean and efficient the design and interface are.

How is it 'efficient' and 'superior'? You might personally like it, particularly asthetically (that being a matter of personal taste) and you might be the sort of user that would actually use the live tiles, say, and that's fair enough, but 'far more efficient'? really? 'far more superior'(sic)? That's both over-the-top and strangely non-specific.

For the most part Win8 is no different to win7, bar a slightly more clunky start menu.

 

[tommo123]

^ agreed. you didn't mention how it's better, just the look. it's turning into an apple deal where style is more important than substance.

 

[Anteaus]

I'm not anti-Windows 8. I see Windows 8 as taking chances and built on sound design with a ballsy shift in desktop design. That said, from a business standpoint Microsoft screwed up. Windows 8 isn't the problem. The problem is that Microsoft was finally regaining trust via Windows 7 that they lost during the Vista days, and instead of taking a step back and taking a deep breath they pushed out Windows 8 way to soon after Win7.

I don't see this as a software failure. I see this as a management failure. At various points during Win8 development they had evidence that the customer base wasn't ready for Win8. For many, Win7 is the greatest MS OS to date. Had they waited another year or two and continued to refine the design, Win8 would likely have had a much greater chance to get out of the large shadow caused by Win7.

It's ironic that MS is stumbling with Win8 due to the tremendous success of Win7, produced by virtually the same group of people. I think in the long run Windows 8 will be successful, but MS should expect a slog for the first year or two.

 

[tommo123]

Windows 8 was released now to push tablets/phones

 

[cboath]

I can understand not liking it.
I can understand liking it.
I can't understand hating it.

What's more is that it seems those in the hate camp are baffled that anyone could like it or be ambivalent about it. They seem obsessed in getting everyone else to hate it.

Those who defend it most likely don't think it's the greatest thing ever, but they can see the pro's AND con's and feel the pro's win out. Or possibly they simply see the writing on the wall and that this is the way they're going and they'd better get used to it.

Everyone is entitled to their respective opinion, but they're not entitled to force it on others.

 

[vcarpio2]

For a Mac guy liberated form Windows several years ago, I recently bought an windows 8 touch screen based machine to play around with and see what all the hubbub was about.
I find windows 8 interesting. I would suggest windows people of old versions just take the time to learn the new os as is. My touch screen win 8 machine has an option to default back to a more windows 7 look, if desired. I hated that option. A real cop out in my opinion.
Just think outside the box and learn something new, something different.
The ability to learn the new in itself will pay off long term, since change is something not easily taken to.
Win 8 is indeed different and challenging, for me that was the draw. The desire.
Whether this new look is all fluff or has some real meat to it only Microsoft knows for sure.
But as life and technology changes, so will gadgets and operating systems to run those gadgets.
Once you go Mac you'll never go back. But I am finding windows 8 a refreshing challenge.
Surprising considering this came from Microsoft.
A lot more information and the addition of live update is for me a plus.
Seems so much more productive in itself.
I can see where MS was coming from with developing windows 8.
I would think loyal windows customers would be happy to see this evolution come about.
Take the time to take it in.

Um, I hope you're not implying us Windows users don't get out much. I created a Hackintosh laptop once because I was seriously considering getting a Mac. (I do graphics.) After using it for some time, I thought Windows was still a lot more robust.

For thinking outside the box and learning something new and different, I have and love my Android tablet for that. It has Retina-quality ppi that I use as an ultrabook.

On my desktop, I'd prefer the old-fashioned Start menu. I'm not by any means loyal to any brand, just on what works for me.

EDIT: Hmm, I wonder if this would work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CAuvlmPbJE. It shows how to enable the Start menu -- and banish Metro altogether -- via a registry hack, assuming the registry entry is there in the final build.

 

[Mem]

I can understand not liking it.
I can understand liking it.
I can't understand hating it.

What's more is that it seems those in the hate camp are baffled that anyone could like it or be ambivalent about it. They seem obsessed in getting everyone else to hate it.

Those who defend it most likely don't think it's the greatest thing ever, but they can see the pro's AND con's and feel the pro's win out. Or possibly they simply see the writing on the wall and that this is the way they're going and they'd better get used to it.

Everyone is entitled to their respective opinion, but they're not entitled to force it on others.

I was a DOS 6.22 fan and hated Windows back then but adapted and learned to live with every new Windows release,even got use to some Linux distro's as well so if I can adapt to the changes etc...then anybody can,some people don't like change or can't be bothered to customize or relearn a different OS,end of the day if you are willing to adapt and except changes for better or worst then you will find it a lot easier in the long run,remember no OS is perfect.

As you stated end of the day nobody is forcing it down people's throat,if this is the way Microsoft wants to go then so be it,we all have a choice on which OS to use or buy etc..

Personally Win8 is a piece of cake to use(I consider myself a desktop and gamer user).

HATE FUD comes around virtually with every new Windows OS,seen some even with Linux distro's as well(not as much however),don't know why since we all have a choice OS wise,they would be better off giving honest feedback to the company in question if they could be bothered to use it for more then 5 mins.

 

[vcarpio2]

I can understand not liking it.
I can understand liking it.
I can't understand hating it.

What's more is that it seems those in the hate camp are baffled that anyone could like it or be ambivalent about it. They seem obsessed in getting everyone else to hate it.

Those who defend it most likely don't think it's the greatest thing ever, but they can see the pro's AND con's and feel the pro's win out. Or possibly they simply see the writing on the wall and that this is the way they're going and they'd better get used to it.

Everyone is entitled to their respective opinion, but they're not entitled to force it on others.

Hmm, not sure why "hate" is being used a lot here because I don't think that's it. This thread's title I think naturally attracts those who are frustrated by the new UI. I'm not saying Windows' -- if you call us "haters" then I can call you -- "lovers" have no business here, just that maybe it's not about hate. I, for one, would not want to tablet-ize my desktop environment. I'd use a leading OS brand for that and on a device I can carry around.

 

[pmv]

I can understand not liking it.
I can understand liking it.
I can't understand hating it.

What's more is that it seems those in the hate camp are baffled that anyone could like it or be ambivalent about it. They seem obsessed in getting everyone else to hate it.

Those who defend it most likely don't think it's the greatest thing ever, but they can see the pro's AND con's and feel the pro's win out. Or possibly they simply see the writing on the wall and that this is the way they're going and they'd better get used to it.

Everyone is entitled to their respective opinion, but they're not entitled to force it on others.

You must be reading some other forum, because your version of this is precisely the reverse of what I see in this thread.

I don't see much hate, I see a certain amount of irritation and slight disappointment that the next iteration of windows seems to be putting most of its effort into going off in a direction that doesn't do anything for many users.

As someone who isn't impressed with it I'm not "obsessed with getting everyone else to hate it". I'm just increasingly irritated (and a little puzzled) at dishonest comments like yours from some of Win8's fans.

At least a few of those who defend it certainly _do_ seem to think its 'the greatest thing ever" - just look at the last such post in this thread ("far superior"?).

And quite a few of them seem prone to passive-aggressive attacks on anyone with a different view to themselves, e.g. hilariously patronising guff about 'people don't like change' or advice about 'learning new things' or your own 'my side are the good guys, those other guys are all obsessed and irrational'

Just as with Apple, so with MS - the company does what it does, its management takes difficult decisions in a world of high-stakes competition, and accepts the consequences in the marketplace, and those who work for it employ their considerable talents as best they can...

...but God save us from the emotionally invested fans!

 

[pmv]

I was a DOS 6.22 fan and hated Windows back then but adapted and learned to live with every new Windows release,even got use to some Linux distro's as well so if I can adapt to the changes etc...then anybody can,some people don't like change or can't be bothered to customize or relearn a different OS,end of the day if you are willing to adapt and except changes for better or worst then you will find it a lot easier in the long run,remember no OS is perfect.

As you stated end of the day nobody is forcing it down people's throat,if this is the way Microsoft wants to go then so be it,we all have a choice on which OS to use or buy etc..

Personally Win8 is a piece of cake to use(I consider myself a desktop and gamer user).

HATE FUD comes around virtually with every new Windows OS,seen some even with Linux distro's as well(not as much however),don't know why since we all have a choice OS wise,they would be better off giving honest feedback to the company in question if they could be bothered to use it for more then 5 mins.

Personally I took to win95 straight away, having been a mac and atari user before that (I couldn't stand win3.1, mind - that was pretty crap compared to those GUIs, but then again, back then PCs anyway were too weedy for any serious use compared to minis or mainframes).

Win8 clearly is pretty simple to use, nobody is saying its too tough for their tiny brains to understand - its just that its slightly less good than its predecessor in certain ways for many users. Its a disappointment after all this time that much of the work appears to have been put into something that's of no benefit to me, that's all.

Your silly reference to "HATE FUD" really adds nothing to the discussion, and again, like several pro-win8 posts, you are being very patronising here. Why not just accept that some people have different views/requriements/priorities to yourself and spare us the lectures about 'adapting to change'?

 

[Mem]

Personally I took to win95 straight away, having been a mac and atari user before that (I couldn't stand win3.1, mind - that was pretty crap compared to those GUIs, but then again, back then PCs anyway were too weedy for any serious use compared to minis or mainframes).

Win8 clearly is pretty simple to use, nobody is saying its too tough for their tiny brains to understand - its just that its slightly less good than its predecessor in certain ways for many users. Its a disappointment after all this time that much of the work appears to have been put into something that's of no benefit to me, that's all.

Your silly reference to "HATE FUD" really adds nothing to the discussion, and again, like several pro-win8 posts, you are being very patronising here. Why not just accept that some people have different views/requriements/priorities to yourself and spare us the lectures about 'adapting to change'?

Hate FUD does come around IMHO on every new OS from some users,as to change I can except people don't like an OS ,I did state I did not like Win3.1 or WinME,however I was willing to adapt and try those operating systems before making judgement one way or the other,my comment was for those that can't be bothered to actually try and use it properly for more then 5 mins,if they used it for say a week or more and don't like it then thats fine we all have different opinions,as I stated no OS is perfect.


As to "simple" well thats subjective on who you ask.

I will say Microsoft has changed Win8 in obvious ways(ie hybrid OS) so we (owners)have to adapt to those changes regardless of if you like it or not,anybody that as used it knows what I mean.

 

[Maximilian]

Why not just accept that some people have different views/requriements/priorities to yourself and spare us the lectures about 'adapting to change'?

This! Im considering changing to linux which is a far bigger change than any new version of windows will be. The whole "scared of change" thing from the pro windows 8 crowd is moronic, actually i would doubt very much that anyone on a technology website is afraid of change when technology is all about change.

 

[WelshBloke]

This! Im considering changing to linux which is a far bigger change than any new version of windows will be...

Just switched my laptop over from win7 to Linux.

Its pretty good although I don't use the laptop for much more than internet and email.

 

[vcarpio2]

This! Im considering changing to linux which is a far bigger change than any new version of windows will be. The whole "scared of change" thing from the pro windows 8 crowd is moronic, actually i would doubt very much that anyone on a technology website is afraid of change when technology is all about change.

Maximilian (is that your real name?), can you cite posts that prompted you to use "afraid" and "moronic"?

EDIT: Oops I think I misunderstood. You're calling moronic not people but the phrase "scared of change". Apologies.

 

[Cerb]

Microsoft OSes are alot like Star Trek movies in the sense that every other one sucks.

Windows 98/98se
Windows ME
Windows XP
Windows Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8


Didnt include W2K because it was originally intended for business/enterprise.

Nor 3, 95(+a, +b), NT 3.1, 3.5, or 4, because they all poke holes in that silly hypothesis.

The truth is that when they release a crappy one, they scramble to fix most of the problems for the next one, and generally do a fair job at it. Also, all of ST I-IV were all good movies, so even that doesn't work out .

ME was released along with 2k, because they had a silly notion they needed to have home, workstation, and server OS releases coincide, so released a half-assed 98 update with a couple new driver APIs, and hid MS-DOS. Vista was a good technical move forward, but poorly managed, in terms of development, labeling, feature sets (Win8 does some of that), and OEM support.

Hopefully for Windows 9, they'll properly implement font rendering, among other regression fixes (getting rid of ClearType, because you're too lazy to implement it right angle turns? Come on!).

 

[Zaap]

The whole "scared of change" thing from the pro windows 8 crowd is moronic, actually i would doubt very much that anyone on a technology website is afraid of change when technology is all about change.

Exactly.

I remember this during both the dev and the consumer previews, how the pro-W8 crowd were dismissing all criticism as "afraid of change" and an observant reviewer pointed out to the effect: "You're telling people who like change SO MUCH that they're trying out beta versions of an OS... that they're afraid of change. Totally bankrupt charge." Nail on the head.

So all along I've thought there was an ulterior emotion-driven motive behind much of the pro W8's smarminess in dismissing the obvious flaws and then over-compensating with inane arguments. To me, tech dies a horrid death when it becomes more driven by brand-loyalties and emotion than honest criticism and facts. Just declaring something "superior" without backing it up with proven examples doesn't cut it; it just comes off as fanboish. Many of us are tired of that with tech products.

 

[dagamer34]

I'm not anti-Windows 8. I see Windows 8 as taking chances and built on sound design with a ballsy shift in desktop design. That said, from a business standpoint Microsoft screwed up. Windows 8 isn't the problem. The problem is that Microsoft was finally regaining trust via Windows 7 that they lost during the Vista days, and instead of taking a step back and taking a deep breath they pushed out Windows 8 way to soon after Win7.

I don't see this as a software failure. I see this as a management failure. At various points during Win8 development they had evidence that the customer base wasn't ready for Win8. For many, Win7 is the greatest MS OS to date. Had they waited another year or two and continued to refine the design, Win8 would likely have had a much greater chance to get out of the large shadow caused by Win7.

It's ironic that MS is stumbling with Win8 due to the tremendous success of Win7, produced by virtually the same group of people. I think in the long run Windows 8 will be successful, but MS should expect a slog for the first year or two.

What signs of stumbles are out there? Microsoft itself has said that Windows 8 is outselling what Windows 7 was doing 3 years ago. Were you expecting Windows 7 levels of praise, because the only reason that happened was because everyone thought Windows Vista was so bad. You only get that kind of reception once.

I think the biggest trap that Microsoft definitely avoided is making Windows 8 into a Windows 7++. Sure, lots of people would have been "happy", but when you consider that there are STILL companies that have yet to adopt Windows 7 (banks, hospitals, large corporations, you name it), it's obvious that regardless of whatever Windows 8 was going to be, it was never going to get a widescale rollout in the next couple of years. That's why I think Microsoft was right to practically ignore the demands of enterprise (which are basically make everything faster and change nothing) and go after the consumer space where Apple is kicking their butts in mindshare. and marketshare in some segments.

The other very important goal Windows 8 needed to make was setting up for yearly updates to Windows itself. Much like how iPhone OS 1.0 and Android 1.0 were only basic foundations for what those operating systems are today, Windows 8 is essentially starting over in what we think of as an operating system. It needs to be refined. It has obviously missing features. It needs more apps. But it's the foundational release that is shocking it was developed in 3 years, because making drastic changes to what is probably the world's most complicated codebase and somehow making it faster, leaner, and more ready for the future is a feat I don't think any OS has done before. When you look at the transition from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X, most people would say it took 2 years before people would stop loading both operating systems side by side, and look how far that OS has come.

 

[SparkyJJO]

If microsoft thinks I'm going to buy an OS upgrade every year they can go hang themselves.

 

[Anteaus]

What signs of stumbles are out there? Microsoft itself has said that Windows 8 is outselling what Windows 7 was doing 3 years ago.

Are we talking OEM vender numbers or end user upgrades or both? Does that number include both the desktop version and RT? I would imagine the total Windows 8 number to be much higher than Windows 7, given the additional license stream. I wouldn't expect MS to say anything that would pessimistic, even considering they admitted they did not meet their own sales projections.

Anyways, don't misunderstand me. I'm pro Windows 8. My point was that much of what is percieved as bad in Windows 8 have less to do with the OS itself and more to do with confused marketing and the stubborness of the user base. If you remove Metro from Win8, Win8 becomes an incrementalist OS. It's an improved Win7. Other than the interface, there is no downside to upgrading unless your in a professional environment with specialized software that doesn't work, which happens with every major Windows release.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2017...tpacing-windows-7-but-whos-really-buying.html

 

[theevilsharpie]

If microsoft thinks I'm going to buy an OS upgrade every year they can go hang themselves.

Compared to Android, where you're at the complete mercy of your phone vendor/carrier to deliver upgrades that often don't come for anything other than flagship devices, paying for a software upgrade independently might not be such a bad deal. If I could get the latest version of Jellybean on my device, I'd pay for it, but that's not an option.

 

[ViRGE]

Compared to Android, where you're at the complete mercy of your phone vendor/carrier to deliver upgrades that often don't come for anything other than flagship devices, paying for a software upgrade independently might not be such a bad deal. If I could get the latest version of Jellybean on my device, I'd pay for it, but that's not an option.

And thus the hilarious difference between the PC and phone markets.

Phone: Change faster. Faster! Why hasn't this changed yet? Go faster!

PC: We just spent $100mil upgrading our systems. If MS changes anything in the next 10 years I'll personally go give Ballmer a swirly

 

[Majic 7]

Went to BB the other day to get a WiFi router. While I was there I decided to get a cheap browser laptop. Black Friday had almost wiped them clean. All they had left were 3 Toshiba C series Windows 8 laptops. 289 so I got one, no stock kept me from giving myself an upgrade. Wonder if this happened everywhere, because I was kind of surprised that they were out of stock. PC business might not be totally dead.

 

[sequoia464]

If MS changes anything in the next 10 years I'll personally go give Ballmer a swirly

Need some help, or would I have to get in line for some of that?

 

[Zaap]

And thus the hilarious difference between the PC and phone markets.

Phone: Change faster. Faster! Why hasn't this changed yet? Go faster!

PC: We just spent $100mil upgrading our systems. If MS changes anything in the next 10 years I'll personally go give Ballmer a swirly

Change just for the sake of change does not equate to IMPROVE.

Most people don't do actual work with their phones, and the starting point is like using a computer from many years ago, so people are more open to the hardware/user-experience changing rapidly. (At least with Android. iOS has barely budged in years. That seems to be what iOS users prefer, which is fine.)

Meanwhile, if you're going to 'change' a tool I use to earn a living with -and especially if you're going to force the change and remove other options- the change had better actually be an IMPROVEMENT.

I haven't seen where Metro is an improvement over anything on a desktop- it's much more a hinderance. Even many Win8 fans talk about how to avoid it, as if that in and of itself was a positive feature of it. (It's easy to get around!) Great sales pitch.

Other aspects of Win8 are improvements- I like the ribbons on menus and improved speed. Those things actually count toward what I use a computer for.