Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around

[imusorka]

you can still get Windows 8 Pro Upgrade for $40 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows/buy)

What about the full rather than upgrade version? I plan to install it on a new system with no previous version running.

 

[blurredvision]

Think of it this way, and this is how I see the start menu versus start screen debate.

Imagine you are a kid looking for a toy to play with. You walk into a room and see in the corner of the room a big box labeled TOYS INSIDE. You walk over to that box, open it, and notice various shelves all labeled with all manner of toys to find and play with. You can easily see the labels and shelves and find the toy you want to pull out to play with. That's the start menu.

Now imagine a slightly different scenario. You are a kid looking for a toy and walk into a toy room. Only to see every imaginable type of toy strewn all across the room. Big, or small it doesn't matter. Every thing is positioned haphazardly all over the place. It's a mess. Try finding your favorite toy in that. That's what the windows 8 start screen is like.

I'm not really feeling this. A toy room will have toys strewn everywhere, random every time a kid gets done playing. The W8 start screen is putting launch tiles in the same place every time, not randomizing it every time you view it. If you install a new program, it goes to the very end, waiting for you to re-place it or leave it.

I have no problems finding stuff on my start screen if needed because it's been organized and it is where it is. Honestly, the W8 start screen is JUST AS FUNCTIONAL as the now-classic Windows start menu.

 

[vcarpio2]

I think the numbers are true -- we're in the Internet age where if at any time you're wrong you'll hear it. But I'm thinking it's not the full picture. It's not lying but it's not telling everything. I'll wait for more news before saying I'm right or wrong.

I also think MS should return the money of those who upgraded. If they're forcing a paradigm shift on existing users so MS can catch up with the Joneses in the tablet world, then Windows 8 upgrade should be free. Come Windows 9, 10, or 11 -- to paraphrase The Lincoln Lawyer -- they can stick it to the repeat customer. Harshly worded maybe but not necessarily corrupt business.

Or keep the Start button.

 

[tommo123]

I have no problems finding stuff on my start screen if needed because it's been organized and it is where it is. Honestly, the W8 start screen is JUST AS FUNCTIONAL as the now-classic Windows start menu.

for the sake of argument, let's take that as true. why would you change and learn a new method for "the same functionality"? that states there are no benefits. it's change for the sake of change (to strong arm more apps for metro/win RT). it's not for us and that's why i use a start menu replacement.

i'm not poo pooing win8 entirely. there are improvements (slight, like vista to win7) but it wasn't necessary to repeatedly force users to use metro.

anyway, i am curious what MS is going to do about the business side of things. Weren't there rumours about MS adding a start menu in SP1?

 

[blurredvision]

for the sake of argument, let's take that as true. why would you change and learn a new method for "the same functionality"? that states there are no benefits. it's change for the sake of change (to strong arm more apps for metro/win RT). it's not for us and that's why i use a start menu replacement.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I just strongly disagree with anybody trying to dog the W8 start screen as non-functional. I can fully understand someone's logic of staying with W7 and I support that, but let's not pretend that W8 is a heaping pile of shit when its actual usability is extremely similar to W7.

 

[tommo123]

it's comparable, but not similar. the changes made in the UI are the reason for that. there's nothing you can't do in either really but it's the change for no benefits that annoys me and gets my back up. that makes me turn into a stubborn prick tis why i (and i'll admit this) won't give metro a go. i won't have anything forced on me in a product i pay for

 

[KeypoX]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I just strongly disagree with anybody trying to dog the W8 start screen as non-functional. I can fully understand someone's logic of staying with W7 and I support that, but let's not pretend that W8 is a heaping pile of shit when its actual usability is extremely similar to W7.

Metro has function but its function is slower, less efficient than the windows 7 start menu.

The start menu has been refined for 17+ years, metro is its first iteration. Well unless you include the first windows as metro.

Maybe metro will get changed to be more functional, but if its always full screen I will prob never want it or use it.

OH and 40 million sold in 5 weeks on par for windows 7 first 5 weeks

it's clear that Windows 8's launch is far from a failure and that the PC market isn't dead yet. Apple sold about 40 million iPads in the whole of 2011 and OS X has about 66 million users total.

http://arstechnica.com/information-...reat-at-40-million-copies-in-the-first-month/

 

[cboath]

for the sake of argument, let's take that as true. why would you change and learn a new method for "the same functionality"? that states there are no benefits. it's change for the sake of change (to strong arm more apps for metro/win RT). it's not for us and that's why i use a start menu replacement.

i'm not poo pooing win8 entirely. there are improvements (slight, like vista to win7) but it wasn't necessary to repeatedly force users to use metro.

anyway, i am curious what MS is going to do about the business side of things. Weren't there rumours about MS adding a start menu in SP1?

The flaw there is that you're assuming that this is as far as the plan goes with Metro and the changes made to windows 8.

For example, during the beta, there was an article that said the plan is that if you're using an internet based login, you'll be able to have the exact same desktop/start screen across your PC, Tablet, and Phone, and multiples thereof using this.

That's just one thing. I can't think of another off the top of my head this early in the morning Still, everyone is treating this as the end game and not phase I of __?

I've seen this type of thing occur in a number of different programs over the years. Hooks are built in early to be used down the line. Sometimes it's right in front of the user and sometimes is buried in an API or somewhere in between.

MS took flack in the past for being dominant and not pushing people down the road more. One of the major examples was that the UI of windows has basically been the same since windows 95. I find it baffling that no one seems to want to even let developers have a crack a full fledged win8 based programs. Who knows what developers will do for tiles and the start screen down the road. Just because everything installs to a generic spot on the start menu now (read, all pre win8 programs) doesn't mean that stuff written after win8 won't create it's own start screen column for example instead of forcing you to place it where you want it.

No one says you have to like it now, but I think it's fair to see what developers do with it and what MS does with it. I seriously doubt we've seen it at it's final level.

 

[sm625]

The problem is that you can buy adequate hardware for $250 all over the place, in the form of pentium/celeron notebooks. Yet it costs $1000 dollars to take that same hardware (1.4-1.8GHz,4GB RAM) and combine it with a different chassis (that is $50 more expensive) and a touch screen (that is also $50 more expensive) and a SSD that is $30 more expensive than a cheap notebook HDD. What I'm saying is that the parts are only worth at most $400, if you accept that the market value of the other hardware is $250. Yet you cant get anything aside from atom for under $1000. It's beyond retarded. There's a huge hole-of-stupidity in this market.

It's just like the All-In-One pc market, where most of the SKUs are much much more expensive than a simple homebrew "notebook strapped to the back of a monitor" solution. Seriously, one could easily build an all-in-one pc for $400 that matches the specs of an $800 AIO and the user wouldnt even be able to tell the difference unless they actually looked behind the monitor and saw the notebook clamped to the monitor. But who the hell pays $400 more for something they cant even see unless they look behind it? (Besides an apple user/victim.) I just dont understand what these companies are thinking. As long as this stupidity persists, I wouldnt expect win 8 sales to improve.

 

[pmv]

The flaw there is that you're assuming that this is as far as the plan goes with Metro and the changes made to windows 8.

For example, during the beta, there was an article that said the plan is that if you're using an internet based login, you'll be able to have the exact same desktop/start screen across your PC, Tablet, and Phone, and multiples thereof using this.

That's just one thing. I can't think of another off the top of my head this early in the morning Still, everyone is treating this as the end game and not phase I of __?

I've seen this type of thing occur in a number of different programs over the years. Hooks are built in early to be used down the line. Sometimes it's right in front of the user and sometimes is buried in an API or somewhere in between.

MS took flack in the past for being dominant and not pushing people down the road more. One of the major examples was that the UI of windows has basically been the same since windows 95. I find it baffling that no one seems to want to even let developers have a crack a full fledged win8 based programs. Who knows what developers will do for tiles and the start screen down the road. Just because everything installs to a generic spot on the start menu now (read, all pre win8 programs) doesn't mean that stuff written after win8 won't create it's own start screen column for example instead of forcing you to place it where you want it.

No one says you have to like it now, but I think it's fair to see what developers do with it and what MS does with it. I seriously doubt we've seen it at it's final level.

Well this is true, but its also true that on other occasions things have been "built in early to be used down the line" and then it turned out nobody wanted those things so they died a death before ever getting started.

And ,indeed, nobody says i have to like it now, but more to the point, nobody says I have to buy it now either!

Also the bit about the internet based login doesn't interest me in the slightest. I use a number of different desktops, but don't need them linked in that way, have no interest in a tablet and only have the most basic of phones (selected largely for battery life and used almost exclusively for text messaging)

However, all this is making me acutely aware of being officially Old (capital letter intended!). At least I'm not so old that I won't be around to see how windows 8 turns out (I suspect its not going to be a huge success and MS will backtrack a bit at some point, but obviously I have no crystal ball and your guess is as good as mine), but it does make me, for the first time, think about the fact that one day there will be new developments like this that I might not actually be around long enough to see whether they succeed or not!

 

[GrumpyMan]

OH and 40 million sold in 5 weeks on par for windows 7 first 5 weeks

Does this mean that 40 million people are now using W8 on a daily basis or are those licenses siting in a Best Buy back room, Microsoft store, Lenovo plant, etc.? What are the numbers behind the numbers? Just curious.

 

[HumblePie]

I'm not really feeling this. A toy room will have toys strewn everywhere, random every time a kid gets done playing. The W8 start screen is putting launch tiles in the same place every time, not randomizing it every time you view it. If you install a new program, it goes to the very end, waiting for you to re-place it or leave it.

I have no problems finding stuff on my start screen if needed because it's been organized and it is where it is. Honestly, the W8 start screen is JUST AS FUNCTIONAL as the now-classic Windows start menu.

Uh no, a toy room in my example is a perfect analogy if you consider only 1 user. If the kid is the kind to use the toy box and the ordering system of the box to get and replace his toys he knows exactly where it all is.

If the 1 user kid is the kind that likes his toys strewn about the room, the toys are going to be left in the same place the kid left them when done playing. They aren't going to randomize themselves.


Think of it as this. Is it easier to remember a SYSTEM for finding objects, or remembering the LAYOUT of the objects themselves. Think of it as that memory card game. Same concept. The brain can easily remember a simple filing system for large quantities of items/data to find as opposed to remembering specific instances of where to find each item every time.

Meaning the start screen layout is inefficient to how the human brain works. Sure the start screen layout works fine when you are working with a small amount of items to remember where they are located. The human brain has no problem keeping track of 10-20 items like that. But try that with 100, 200, or even a 1000 items. Good luck with that.

So back to my PERFECT analogy of the toy room, in a small case of a toy box with 20 toys, the kid that puts his toys where he wants in the room might actually have it easier and faster to a small degree at finding his favorite toy to play with the next time he comes into the room compared to the kid with the toy box. However, when we are talking about a few hundred toys, the kid with the organized box is going to have a MUCH more efficient and easier time.

Also, if the kid decides to share his room with a friend and let his friend come over to play with his toys while he is not there, guess which one is going to be nicer for the friend to figure out?

 

[jhansman]

I'm one of the 40 million, and am dual booting with Win7. I am no amateur (been a Windows user since Ver. 2.0), but it is taking me some time to get comfortable with it. I will say that Win7 is beginning to feel a bit "long in the tooth," albeit familiar and navigable. My mind is still open while I learn.

 

[smakme7757]

So far the only thing I'm not liking with Windows 8 is that Starcraft 2 has micro stutters. It could be driver related and so far it's the only problem i've noticed.

From a productivity standpoint it's not bad, but the starcraft 2 problem is a PITA.

 

[HeXen]

So those that hate W8 also hate to see it sell well?
bunch of weirdo's

 

[Ferzerp]

So those that hate W8 also hate to see it sell well? bunch of weirdo's

Yeah, the OP has gone strangely silent after the whole premise of the thread was shown to be false

 

[vcarpio2]

So those that hate W8 also hate to see it sell well?
bunch of weirdo's

I wouldn't say hate. Frustrated maybe.

EDIT: Virtual PC doesn't run on W8 apparently. I know, I should have checked before upgrading. VMWare saved the day for me, working from home.

EDIT#2: BTW, you shouldn't label people.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I wouldn't say hate. Frustrated maybe.

EDIT: Virtual PC doesn't run on W8 apparently. I know, I should have checked before upgrading. VMWare saved the day for me, working from home.

EDIT#2: BTW, you shouldn't label people.

HyperV? Isn't Virtual PC long abandoned? Nothing new.

 

[vcarpio2]

HyperV? Isn't Virtual PC long abandoned? Nothing new.

I don't know if it's long abandoned but I've been using it.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, technically, I don't really need a virtual machine. I do it because I remember our VPN software hijacks my Internet connection. When connected through VPN, I can only surf the Net through my work's Internet which has many sites blocked. So I run VPN inside a VM -- Virtual PC in this case which I now abandoned in favor of VMWare.

 

[sportage]

For a Mac guy liberated form Windows several years ago, I recently bought an windows 8 touch screen based machine to play around with and see what all the hubbub was about.
I find windows 8 interesting. I would suggest windows people of old versions just take the time to learn the new os as is. My touch screen win 8 machine has an option to default back to a more windows 7 look, if desired. I hated that option. A real cop out in my opinion.
Just think outside the box and learn something new, something different.
The ability to learn the new in itself will pay off long term, since change is something not easily taken to.
Win 8 is indeed different and challenging, for me that was the draw. The desire.
Whether this new look is all fluff or has some real meat to it only Microsoft knows for sure.
But as life and technology changes, so will gadgets and operating systems to run those gadgets.
Once you go Mac you'll never go back. But I am finding windows 8 a refreshing challenge.
Surprising considering this came from Microsoft.
A lot more information and the addition of live update is for me a plus.
Seems so much more productive in itself.
I can see where MS was coming from with developing windows 8.
I would think loyal windows customers would be happy to see this evolution come about.
Take the time to take it in.

 

[tommo123]

that's for the touch screen. there it makes sense as that's what the UI is designed for. having metro on a PC makes as much sense as winxp on a tablet. you can do it, but why!?

 

[lopri]

For a Mac guy liberated form Windows several years ago,

Umm.. Wut?

Once you go Mac you'll never go back.

False statement. Example being myself. I've had iPod/iPhone, iPad, Macbook, Mac Pro (only thing missing is iMac) and only thing I kept is iPad. Will never touch Mac again, is my personal conclusion after years of dabbling on anything Mac.

 

[ControlD]

Umm.. Wut?



False statement. Example being myself. I've had iPod/iPhone, iPad, Macbook, Mac Pro (only thing missing is iMac) and only thing I kept is iPad. Will never touch Mac again, is my personal conclusion after years of dabbling on anything Mac.

Agree with you on this one. I tried it, hated it, and am more than happy to be back in the Windows world!

 

[pmv]

Umm.. Wut?



False statement. Example being myself. I've had iPod/iPhone, iPad, Macbook, Mac Pro (only thing missing is iMac) and only thing I kept is iPad. Will never touch Mac again, is my personal conclusion after years of dabbling on anything Mac.

I was tempted to take that bait - I used Apple computers a lot in the early '90s (and before that Amigas and Ataris, which were, let's face it, the poor-man's Macs) but haven't used one since '96. I do remember being most unimpressed by pre-95 versions of windows, Apple's approach seemed superior back then.

Plus I have never liked Apple's strange obsession with minimalism when it comes to UIs - from the infamous one-button mouse through to the incredibly stupid wheel control on my ipod classic.

God I hate that stupid wheel - it turns a one dimensional movement - scrolling a list - entirely unnecessarily into a 2 dimensional one - twiddling a wheel round and round - and the lack of dedicated volume controls (more Apple minimalism) means I can't change the volume unless I wait several minutes for it to switch back to the correct 'mode'

I restrained myself because there's not much point in another apple/pc argument is there? But now I've done it, dammit, going way off-topic.

Both MS and Apple are less-than-ideal, but what can you do? I suppose one should be grateful there's as much competition as there is, some product sectors just seem not to generate much choice.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

that's for the touch screen. there it makes sense as that's what the UI is designed for. having metro on a PC makes as much sense as winxp on a tablet. you can do it, but why!?

Not true. I find that for general everyday use Win8 is far more efficient and superior than the old versions. Granted I am not the uber 1337 hacker that needs total access to my PC right away at all times, but I like how clean and efficient the design and interface are.