Win10 Creator's Update: The "welcome to Windows" setup spiel

[DigDog]

No, sorry, there will not be an successor to Win10 that you will give a resounding thumbs up to. If you don't like 10, it's successor will be more of the same.

ok but, we don't know that. There could be an awakening within the company. Project directors can change, perceived demand can change, Windows ME was garbage but then XP was amazing. Also, call it wishful thinking, but there's nothing to be gained by hoping M$FT to suck even more.

 

[UsandThem]

ok but, we don't know that. There could be an awakening within the company. Project directors can change, perceived demand can change, Windows ME was garbage but then XP was amazing. Also, call it wishful thinking, but there's nothing to be gained by hoping M$FT to suck even more.

ME was ssssoooooo bad. IMO opinion, it was their worst one.

I had a perfectly nice 98SE system, saw the ME upgrade disc on sale at the BX for like $10, picked it up and it was a horrible decision. Worst $10 I ever spent.

 

[DigDog]

we ... brace yourself. we used it FOR WORK.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It's funny..I use my wife as the guinea pig...she had ME, Vista and 10. While I continued to use my current OS and gauged her reactions (and my occasional fixing them when she broke them) on if I would upgrade or not. In the past this worked great...but with 10 we're all being corralled into adopting it sooner than later. Let's not pretend MS doesn't have an agenda. It isn't just 'for the good of the users'. It's more like 'good for their pocketbooks'. I have actually purchased 10Pro, and have it dual booted, but I haven't booted it up since I set it up. I use 10 at work, and the wife has had 2 Win10 laptops. Absolutely HATE it. Sadly my own work laptop is being upgraded to 10 in the next few weeks. I haven't talked to one person at work that likes it, it breaks so much.

 

[WT]

ok but, we don't know that. There could be an awakening within the company. Project directors can change, perceived demand can change, Windows ME was garbage but then XP was amazing. Also, call it wishful thinking, but there's nothing to be gained by hoping M$FT to suck even more.

I seriously love your enthusiasm ! I'm betting you are a younger guy that hasn't been disillusioned and shat upon by the MS 'way' of doing business. I own 3 Windows phones !!! How freakin' rare is that these days !??! I remember the days when MS dipped their toes into the hardware market,but ... only for long enough to realize that they could never innovate. They were the Honda of their day - never first to market in any segment, but always willing to copy the innovators. From the Zune or the Sidewinder to the Band 2 (they even made routers and speakers back in the day), they would enter a market and always too quickly EOL that hardware and move on. Their 'awakening' was realizing they greatly miscalculated the phone market,and yet again, buying an established brand (in their case, Nokia) was their quick fix. They aren't going to change now - the course is established. I hope you prove me wrong, but we can revisit this thread in2 years and see where we are.

PS - I owned a Zune, Sidewinder Pro (gaming chat interface), Sidewinder FF2 Pro (joystick) and the three aforementioned Windows Phones - an HTC 8X, Nokia 640 and a Nokia 930. I've been let down by MS more times than I care to admit. Right now, my OS only acts as a frontend to game on, so my choice in OS is something that bothers me less than it did when I was a wet behind the ears IT guy figuring out how to fix IRQ and DMA conflicts and free up more conventional RAM.

 

[quikah]

ok but, we don't know that. There could be an awakening within the company. Project directors can change, perceived demand can change, Windows ME was garbage but then XP was amazing. Also, call it wishful thinking, but there's nothing to be gained by hoping M$FT to suck even more.

They have said that repeatedly, I am not sure what you think they would do, it would take years to rewrite everything from scratch.

I honestly have no idea what your guys problems are. 10 works great for me. Never had any major problems. No idea what anyone sees in 7, it is ugly. But if you like it there are several skins for 10 that make it look like 7 (start10 or classicshell). Otherwise switch to Mac or Linux.

 

[ImpulsE69]

They have said that repeatedly, I am not sure what you think they would do, it would take years to rewrite everything from scratch.

I honestly have no idea what your guys problems are. 10 works great for me. Never had any major problems. No idea what anyone sees in 7, it is ugly. But if you like it there are several skins for 10 that make it look like 7 (start10 or classicshell). Otherwise switch to Mac or Linux.

7 is stable and everything runs on it. That's what we see in it. You don't jump to the 'newest' rehashed OS just because someone tells you to. There are reasons to NOT upgrade for awhile. Also, it's not like all these people who hate 10 haven't tried it. The security stuff is a farce - in case you weren't aware. It has many of the same security flaws earlier OS's have. MS isn't great about finding/fixing things themselves. If you like 10 so be it, but there are plenty of legit reasons to stay on 7 at this time.

 

[mindless1]

They have said that repeatedly, I am not sure what you think they would do, it would take years to rewrite everything from scratch.

I honestly have no idea what your guys problems are. 10 works great for me. Never had any major problems. No idea what anyone sees in 7, it is ugly. But if you like it there are several skins for 10 that make it look like 7 (start10 or classicshell). Otherwise switch to Mac or Linux.

You're halfway there. I use classicshell to make Win7 look more like a Win2K-XP hybrid. It is more ergonomic when things like icons, are icons, not tiny color gradient pictures within the same color theme. The last thing I am looking for is pretty vs ugly. Most people with their pretty OS can now barely get any work done, slow as snails they are.

 

[r4sh1d]

Why the F does my desktop PC has an airplane mode icon next to the notification. Sometimes I hit it by misrake and my BT m/k get disconnecred.

 

[bbhaag]

Many users here seem to be neurotic when it comes to Microsoft and their newest operating system. Most of it seems to be based on unfounded allegations or half truths passed down over the years. We have an older crowd here on Anandtech as well and it has been my experience that most older people are creatures of habit. Change can be difficult or confusing the older you get.

 

[bbhaag]

Why the F does my desktop PC has an airplane mode icon next to the notification. Sometimes I hit it by misrake and my BT m/k get disconnecred.

Click start>settings>system>notifications and actions>add or remove quick actions>choose the ones you prefer to keep on and choose off for the rest.
This should alleviate the airplane mode icon you are troubled about.

 

[r4sh1d]

Thanks for the info, but can't the OS be intelligent enough to tell when it's installed on a desktop and remove this crap, along with tablet mode!!

 

[bbhaag]

You are welcome. Glad I could help you.
To answer your question. An intelligent os is a bit of a misnomer. There is no such thing as an intelligent os. An os can only do what it is told to do by the user. It is the users responsibility to understand how the os works and what it can and cannot do.

 

[Paladin3]

My most recent build is a desktop I put together about 20 months ago, and I installed a clean copy of Windows 10 Pro on it. I uninstalled 99% of the built-in apps, Cortana, turned off all the data gathering crap and run Classicshell for a menu. I keep updates on to plug security holes and use an adblocker on Chrome or Firefox. It took a bit to learn which services to turn off and how to block crap from running in the background, but a quick google search finds instructions to do just about anything you want to with any OS. My system is way stable, running lean and mean and no problems so far. *KNOCKS ON WOOD*

I've got various other computers running mostly Win7 and one running Win8 which I don't see the need to upgrade since they all run fine. I see no reason to stick to an older OS and fear the latest, but no reason to update if what you have is working for you either. Any OS can be tuned to run well.

 

[mindless1]

Many users here seem to be neurotic when it comes to Microsoft and their newest operating system. Most of it seems to be based on unfounded allegations or half truths passed down over the years. We have an older crowd here on Anandtech as well and it has been my experience that most older people are creatures of habit. Change can be difficult or confusing the older you get.

Or it could just be that idiots who have never done task XYZ before, do it faster if an OS stupifies it enough that they understand except they don't understand because if they did, then like any toddler the next time they did a task they just learned, they'd be faster and faster with practice if they did it themselves without the hand holding.

Newer OS have important hardware support. The interface on the other hand has decidedly turned from high efficiency to "you're either geriatric or a toddler" with each revision after Win2k.

You have it quite backwards. Extremely so. Each subsequent MS OS seeks to treat users like they're clueless idiots.

If it were a new OS thrust upon the public, that could be needed. When it is the world dominant OS and it just decreases productivity, not so much.

It's not that changes are difficult or confusing. It's that you have to be handicapped using a computer if you couldn't get things done faster before it was all dumbed down. At the same time, there is something to be said for consistency, not changing how things are done if there is not a proven improvement. Change just for the sake of tricking people into thinking they're getting a lot with a new OS is not progress.

 

[DigDog]

i never bought a Zune or other M$ hardware so i don't know.

I seriously love your enthusiasm ! I'm betting you are a younger guy that hasn't been disillusioned and shat upon by the MS 'way' of doing business.

ok, first thing, my optimism comes from the fact that i am 45yo and i have seen M$ behave WORSE in the past than they do now. between the end of the 90s when M$ was all about creating a monopoly by any means necessary, to 10 years later when they, well, almost became a normal, non evil company. Heck, they even had a good reputation at some point.
And also lets not forget how ridiculously incompetent M$ was before W7. I still need to rely on Unlocker to unlock files captured by the explorer process, because otherwise "this file cannot be deleted" or "you need permission". M$ has had some horrendous bugs develop over the years that they are simply incapable of fixing.

I remember in 1999 when Time put Apple on the cover, "Trust Apple!", "Apple will save us from Microsoft", i even bought a G3. Oh how have they changed, from being the serious PC for professors and writers and businessmen, to toys for idiots.


regarding W7 vs W10 ...

first off, i play Quake. And other similar eSports. Just ask any esports player with some cred, they will tell you that mice do not behave on W10 as they do in W7.
M$ still has not figured out that the mouse control panel needs more options that "speed" and "color". W10 has no way of having raw mouse imput which automatically excludes it for me. Also, my W7 (and my XP) build have several mouse fixes and latency fixes which do not exist for W10. I trim down my PC, completely removing many services (no search, for example) which can impact performance. And this is not the same thing we did on XP, closing services to free RAM and cycles, but rather to prevent services with high priority and low level to do stuff when the PC is supposed to only run one application. M$, due to their history, want every PC in the world to be able to perform every operation in existance, from reading chinese characters, to text to speech, PnP any device, index an array of disks, because you never know what the buyer will want out of his PC.
I need my PC to run quake and that's it. If even for a single frame MY PC decides it needs to do something OTHER that what i told it to, then i resent M$ because it's MY PC and not THEIR PC.

And this is something that M$ does not understand. Have you seen this video, windows 10 made me a racist ? As you can imagine, this would be my worst nightmare. I need the OS to help me get my PC to do what i want, not the opposite.

 

[r4sh1d]

You are welcome. Glad I could help you.
To answer your question. An intelligent os is a bit of a misnomer. There is no such thing as an intelligent os. An os can only do what it is told to do by the user. It is the users responsibility to understand how the os works and what it can and cannot do.

Yeah, right. Myabe it should list 50 monitors instead of the 2 I have? Where's my flashlight icon, Auto rotate? NFC? LOL "cause it was told to do by the user" you say? What a joke.

If the OS doesnt detect a hardware feature, it should NOT list it "just to look cool".

 

[Genx87]

There is no reason to move from windows7 to windows 10. Windows 10 is so full of bloat it's not funny. There is literally no way to disable all of the endless notifications.
The start menu is absolute trash. Each major update reenables most of the crap I spent hours removing. They really need to stop trying to copy OSX. OSX will always be a superior OS no matter what MS does.

I love this argument. Same was said with the move from Win 98 to XP, then XP to Win 7 and now Win 7 to Win 10. So many luddites within tech communities. They wear it like a badge of honor they want to remain on outdated technology.

 

[Paladin3]

i never bought a Zune or other M$ hardware so i don't know.

ok, first thing, my optimism comes from the fact that i am 45yo and i have seen M$ behave WORSE in the past than they do now. between the end of the 90s when M$ was all about creating a monopoly by any means necessary, to 10 years later when they, well, almost became a normal, non evil company. Heck, they even had a good reputation at some point.
And also lets not forget how ridiculously incompetent M$ was before W7. I still need to rely on Unlocker to unlock files captured by the explorer process, because otherwise "this file cannot be deleted" or "you need permission". M$ has had some horrendous bugs develop over the years that they are simply incapable of fixing.

I remember in 1999 when Time put Apple on the cover, "Trust Apple!", "Apple will save us from Microsoft", i even bought a G3. Oh how have they changed, from being the serious PC for professors and writers and businessmen, to toys for idiots.


regarding W7 vs W10 ...

first off, i play Quake. And other similar eSports. Just ask any esports player with some cred, they will tell you that mice do not behave on W10 as they do in W7.
M$ still has not figured out that the mouse control panel needs more options that "speed" and "color". W10 has no way of having raw mouse imput which automatically excludes it for me. Also, my W7 (and my XP) build have several mouse fixes and latency fixes which do not exist for W10. I trim down my PC, completely removing many services (no search, for example) which can impact performance. And this is not the same thing we did on XP, closing services to free RAM and cycles, but rather to prevent services with high priority and low level to do stuff when the PC is supposed to only run one application. M$, due to their history, want every PC in the world to be able to perform every operation in existance, from reading chinese characters, to text to speech, PnP any device, index an array of disks, because you never know what the buyer will want out of his PC.
I need my PC to run quake and that's it. If even for a single frame MY PC decides it needs to do something OTHER that what i told it to, then i resent M$ because it's MY PC and not THEIR PC.

And this is something that M$ does not understand. Have you seen this video, windows 10 made me a racist ? As you can imagine, this would be my worst nightmare. I need the OS to help me get my PC to do what i want, not the opposite.

It's not all the OS or manufacturers fault. Most users expect their PC to be totally maintenance free and won't pay someone to optimize their system or do a little research and learn to do it themselves. They ignore best practices, install countless programs that run in the background and do everything they can to avoid updating their OS.

I've fixed countless computers broken by users who have unpluged their system to stop updates in progress and fubared the OS. They do stupid shit to break their system and can't understand why it's broken so they blame Microsoft. Or worse they blame me!

It's like someone who refuses to change the oil in their car then is surprised when the engine blows up.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It's not all the OS or manufacturers fault. Most users expect their PC to be totally maintenance free and won't pay someone to optimize their system or do a little research and learn to do it themselves. They ignore best practices, install countless programs that run in the background and do everything they can to avoid updating their OS.

I've fixed countless computers broken by users who have unpluged their system to stop updates in progress and fubared the OS. They do stupid shit to break their system and can't understand why it's broken so they blame Microsoft. Or worse they blame me!

It's like someone who refuses to change the oil in their car then is surprised when the engine blows up.

Understand where you're going with that, but you are preaching to the wrong crowd on this site. Most here are not computer illiterate.

 

[darkswordsman17]

They have said that repeatedly, I am not sure what you think they would do, it would take years to rewrite everything from scratch.

I honestly have no idea what your guys problems are. 10 works great for me. Never had any major problems. No idea what anyone sees in 7, it is ugly. But if you like it there are several skins for 10 that make it look like 7 (start10 or classicshell). Otherwise switch to Mac or Linux.

I don't understand WTF they're going on about with that. Win10 underneath was a lot of kinda starting over from scratch (where they made it both leaner and more powerful).

I don't either. Same experience here. Win10 has been the least problematic OS I've ever used. Well other than maybe ones that I didn't interact with, like say the one on the SNES or something. But there's a massive difference in capability there, so that's not even close to a fair comparison.

7 is stable and everything runs on it. That's what we see in it. You don't jump to the 'newest' rehashed OS just because someone tells you to. There are reasons to NOT upgrade for awhile. Also, it's not like all these people who hate 10 haven't tried it. The security stuff is a farce - in case you weren't aware. It has many of the same security flaws earlier OS's have. MS isn't great about finding/fixing things themselves. If you like 10 so be it, but there are plenty of legit reasons to stay on 7 at this time.

Win10 has been out for 2 years. Its not like there was some catastrophic issue with it at launch, or that it hasn't proven to be quite stable.

Have something to backup your "security is a farce"? Because that's not the situation at all. Its straight up bizarre that you claim that considering Microsoft isn't patching older OSes, but are Win10. And they actually changed things, where there's fairly regularly instances where other OSes (iOS, Android, Mac OS) are vulnerable, but Win10 isn't (either because it was already patched, or Microsoft had completely changed how something was handled so that's no longer even a problem that needs patched).

Look if you don't want to upgrade, that's fine, but your claims don't hold up in this regard. I honestly don't care about OSes, its a completely stupid thing to argue about, but you're pretty much just making stuff up to try to defend your dislike of it. Plus you ignore that Win10 has quite a bit of improvements over 7. Its more efficient (and actually more powerful with a broader range of hardware that it supports), and has been more stable for me. I personally like the interface (which is much more customizable than 7, although since you can do 3rd party things to adjust it further, you can tweak both to however you want quite easily). The basic photo program (not even talking about Paint, just Photo Viewer or whatever its called, think its just called Photos?) is now pretty powerful (lots of editing features, I have been able to completely stop using the other free editing programs because its good quality, simple, and easy giving me the results I want; don't get me wrong I'm sure pros get plenty of use out of Photoshop or maybe others). Win10 is great if you use pen input at all. In fact, Win10 is probably the most adaptable OS setup there is and that's improving with time (they're baking in VR/AR stuff, it already has some support for 3D printers and 3D modeling stuff).

Many users here seem to be neurotic when it comes to Microsoft and their newest operating system. Most of it seems to be based on unfounded allegations or half truths passed down over the years. We have an older crowd here on Anandtech as well and it has been my experience that most older people are creatures of habit. Change can be difficult or confusing the older you get.

Glad I'm not the only one to notice. Some of the arguments I've seen on here over the years...I'm convinced that somehow half the people on this tech forum are very nearly full on luddites, and are definitely technophobes. But they're often hypocrites (they throw fits about Microsoft, but then will defend Android or Apple, let alone some of the other crazy ridiculous stuff I've seen from people on here). Its often based on willful ignorance (meaning, they'll complain about something and its very clear that they didn't even try to figure out a fix, let alone do something as "in depth" as Google it).

My most recent build is a desktop I put together about 20 months ago, and I installed a clean copy of Windows 10 Pro on it. I uninstalled 99% of the built-in apps, Cortana, turned off all the data gathering crap and run Classicshell for a menu. I keep updates on to plug security holes and use an adblocker on Chrome or Firefox. It took a bit to learn which services to turn off and how to block crap from running in the background, but a quick google search finds instructions to do just about anything you want to with any OS. My system is way stable, running lean and mean and no problems so far. *KNOCKS ON WOOD*

I've got various other computers running mostly Win7 and one running Win8 which I don't see the need to upgrade since they all run fine. I see no reason to stick to an older OS and fear the latest, but no reason to update if what you have is working for you either. Any OS can be tuned to run well.

Mostly agree, although I don't think you need to do that much. Win 10 is quite good out of the box (although you'll definitely want to tweak the interface some, and of course install some other stuff like MPC-HC and other browsers - although Edge was fine when I used it for some things but I definitely prefer Firefox; but that's the same situation that I had with every version of Windows I've ever used). Win10 is more stable than 7 was for me. And this is on older hardware that was basically tailored for Win 7. The Surface Book I had, did have some hiccups but they fixed all the issues I was having through software updates, while also adding useful features.

I can somewhat see that, although I wouldn't just because those older ones don't offer anything compelling for me, while Win10 is going to keep getting security updates if nothing else. Win10 is absolutely superior to Win8. For me, Win10 is the best Windows release yet. XP was a mess and then turned out ok, Vista was not nearly as bad as people claimed (it was fine, not perfect), 7 was better than Vista (it wasn't that different though, which is why I laugh at people that say 7 was great but Vista sucked). 8 was too wonky (it was basically a sacrificial lamb as Microsoft had to get it through that they were making big changes, otherwise they were going to end up with the Vista problems all over where companies acted like they didn't believe them, and then on release those companies had shitty drivers that caused most of the problems; plus it gave them good feedback on the user interface, which has helped a lot on Win10).

All the complaints about 10 (at least compared to other Windows) are pretty easily remedied. In fact, I spend less time fussing with it than I used to with older Windows (ugh, I personally don't look back fondly on all the tweaking I had to do with Win XP). And I should be able to change CPU and mobo, and not have to do a full reinstall. Windows will reconfigure itself and work fine on the new hardware. While also not bogging down into a mess like XP especially used to (my Win10 install feels, if anything, more snappy than when I first installed it, and its been over 2 years, including multiple major updates which would've probably ended up getting me to do a fresh install on XP - Vista and 7 weren't as bad in that regard at least, but they never felt as responsive as 10 does to me).

 

[ImpulsE69]

Making stuff up? Do you read the news at all or do I need to do your googling for you?

Also - once you 'tweak' a system, there is little need to tweak it again. I haven't bothered with my 7 systems in years. Security updates STILL get made for 7. I install them every month. The rest is unnecessary unless there is something specific you need (which as of yet I haven't). I agree that arguing about OS's is stupid, unfortunately people love to do it and try to belittle (both ways) those that disagree with them. The point I've always made is there is little incentive to go out of your way to be on Win10 unless it serves some purpose for you. As of yet - with 2 years out - I have found no reason to use it as a primary and what I have used of it I really dislike.

 

[DigDog]

It's not all the OS or manufacturers fault. Users are idiots.

my edit.

Yes, and i can understand why. I said understand, not agree. There's more than one solution to this problem, one would be to create a world where people are expected to take professional responsibility for the tools they use, and the other is to do what Apple does.
Now, having said that, i think (and not just me, both other people share this idea) that Microsoft should release a "gamer OS", a Windows version of .. well, basically a Linux with the propietary M$ technologies.
An OS where there is no bloatware, no "helpful" bullshit, where i get total control over every parameter available even if i want to use them to explode my PC.

Now, i'm an ignorant nimcompoop who can barely scrape a 130 IQ score, but i think a OS like that would fly off the shelves, oil reserves would be depleted trying to print the install DVDs for the install and the power grid .. you get my drift. There would be demand. From Windows *actual* target audience, gamers. Microsoft wouldn't exist, if it wasn't for games which, pulling this data from my lower digestive tract, contributed to 99% of the demand for PCs.

 

[Fir]

Read up on slipstreaming and how to rip out the junk you don't need.
Rufus your slimmed down iso to a flash drive and you're good to go.

 

[snoopy7548]

The way I see it, you're gonna have to upgrade eventually. If not 10, then 11. Might as well get it over with and do it for free. Regardless, whether you go to 10 or upgrade to a wishful, unicorn Win7 successor, you're gonna have to tweak everything to your liking.