William Rood, Swift boat skipper: Kerry critics wrong

[Ogi]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Nice post, Ogi.

thank you, unfortunately he seems to be one of those stuborn people that has poor decision making skills, so it won't effect him, oh well.

Ogi

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Very nice post. Perhaps we should link him over to the video of Bush actually SAYING those silly little things about not nation building and not impossing our will on other countries... eh... never mind. I honestly believe that if Bush went on tv tonight and said flat out he was lying about Iraq that come November, that number that still believe Iraq had WMD's would not drop much at all. There is comfort in thinking that there was some evil boggy man out to get the US and that we got em. Mission accomplished. Wake me when they pull Bin Laden out of his cave.

 

[Runner20]

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

Did it interrupt your nap after recess?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

As a former New Yorker with an aunt that nearly died in Tower 7, I can tell you that she's disgusted that Bush has used the deaths of 3,000 Americans to further his agenda of exploitation. She's DISGUSTED!

 

[cpumaster]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Just because more Americans trust Bush and not Kerry, doesnt make them simplistic or sheepish.

And Kerry is a flip-flopper.

I think Bush is a whisy washy and a whimp too to boot. I watch in one of the "King of the Hills" show, that Bush has a wimpy handshake and that cost him Hank Hill vote...I ain't voting for no wimpy handshaker
Anyway, I remember vividly Bush saying if he is a president, we will not do nation building & become policeman of the world. Guess he change his mind now huh (not that I blame him, as superpower in the world, we receive certain privillage and with that certain responsibility). I just don't like the way he potrays kerry as flip-flopper while Bush himself changed his mind probably as much if not more so than Kerry.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: cpumaster

Originally posted by: Runner20

Just because more Americans trust Bush and not Kerry, doesnt make them simplistic or sheepish.

And Kerry is a flip-flopper.

I think Bush is a whisy washy and a whimp too to boot. I watch in one of the "King of the Hills" show, that Bush has a wimpy handshake and that cost him Hank Hill vote...I ain't voting for no wimpy handshaker
Anyway, I remember vividly Bush saying if he is a president, we will not do nation building & become policeman of the world. Guess he change his mind now huh (not that I blame him, as superpower in the world, we receive certain privillage and with that certain responsibility). I just don't like the way he potrays kerry as flip-flopper while Bush himself changed his mind probably as much if not more so than Kerry.

Funny enough, I keep telling my wife that you can't trust a man with a wimpy handshake.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

OK. So you are admitting that you think Iraq was behind 9/11. Cool. You are completly and utterly clueless. One might go so far as to call you a NooB. But not me...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

Yeah you became a frightened individual who's willing to let someone use your fear to manipulate you into believing their bs!

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

OK. So you are admitting that you think Iraq was behind 9/11. Cool. You are completly and utterly clueless. One might go so far as to call you a NooB. But not me...

/em awaiting someone to call him a noob.
:laugh:

 

[Runner20]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Ogi
whos the flip flopper?

bush said in 2000 that "i don't belive our troops should be used for what's called nation building.".

he also said "if we go around the world saying we do it this way, so should you, we would be an arrogant nation and be hated" (wow he was much smarter back then)

bush has cut funding on every program he has started (including Department of Homeland Security, No Child Left Behind, the list goes on and on.).

what issue are you talking about kerry flip flopping?

i didn't realize that changing your mind as new evidence came into play was a bad thing, infact it's a skill that GOOD decision makers have, ... however stuborn ones don't change their minds...hence being stuborn.

so if you want a stuborn president that has poor decision making skills, go vote for bush!

otherwise if you want someone that is showing good decision making skills, vote for kerry.

i sudgest you do one of the above

1) quit posting crap off michaelsavage.com or wherever you get your "news" from.
2) do a lot of reading and make some relavant posts
3) make the right decision and vote for kerry

Ogi

Something called 9/11 happened. Maybe 9/11 didnt have a big impact on you, but as a New Yorker I can tell you that it changed my view point on politics and almost everything.

OK. So you are admitting that you think Iraq was behind 9/11. Cool. You are completly and utterly clueless. One might go so far as to call you a NooB. But not me...

No Iraq was not behind 9/11 --- although the Iraqi defense minister did meet Mohammed Atta in Prague. But we wont get into that.

Saddam is out of power, terrorists have one less ally and one less source of WMD's. I think thats about it.

 

[CaptnKirk]

There are as many 'Versions' of what went down in Viet Nam as there are people that went there,
and days that were spent by individuals in country.
Somewhere between the days of boredom and the minutes of panic under fire is 'Your' truth.

I, for one, went first to Saigon in late '66 where we were getting hit each week by mortar with daily
hits on individual troops in town, along with the standard array of suicide bombings, then I moved to
the Central Highlands with the Armys 1st Cav - and their slightly more hectic two or three times a week early morning mortaring and rocket attacks, mixed in with the nightly probes and sporatic fire fights around the perimiter as 'Chuck' (after you got to know Charlie, he became Chuck) tried to infiltrate
the base to kill soldiers in their tents and blow up the helicopters and support aircraft.
This was of course offset by the individual strikes on the soldiers that went into town and were shot, stabbed, poisoned (acid drinks) and ambushed while in transit. Notice - I haven't even listed the
incidents yet where we actually had contact with enemy troops while on organized operations,
be they be 'Viet Cong' or NVA Regulars, along with their Chinese and Russian Army 'Advisors'.

From there I went to the once a week hits that were the norm for Phu Cat between mid December '66
through mid Feburary '67, and the perimiter snipers, mined runways from overnight incursions,
and exploding POL and munitions reventments that made such a spectacular display.

Then onward to the relative calm, safety, and total boredom of Cam Rahn Bay - which had not
actually been hit (on the Air Force side of the base) until the Rocket attacks from Nha Trang and the
co-ordinated sappers overunning the base hospital with satchel charges in September of '67.

The 'Brownwater Navy' was neck deep in the sh!t on a day to day basis, as was the Army,
Marines, and Air Force - as well as the 'other' Navy, the Carrier Pilots, like McCain.

We lost troops in Laos and Cambodia as well, but were real careful as to paint out the 'exact'
location and time of those 'alledged' happenings.

Were there attrocities commited ? Damn right there were.
Did EVERYONE commit attrocities ? No, but rest assured some did happen.

Was Kerry always right ? Of course not, but is everyone always RIGHT (not counting Limbaugh) ?
He did what he needed to do - sometimes it is better to just react than to think, the 'think' slows
you down and keeps the adreneline from acting quick enough, and the delay gets you dead.

Was he right to protest and make his point when he returned ? I think so, based on what I saw
and went through from my personal observations. I think he was a lot more correct in his
actions than the advisors to President Johnson and President Nixon were in their deceit.

I resent the use of partiotism as a weapon against the citizens of this country, and I blame
the structure of todays GOP leadership for that - they took the meaning on MY Republuican
Party away from me and replaced it with a mean and taunting bunch of self serving buffoons.

So much of Iraq is so different from the 'Nam - and at the same time so simular.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Runner20
Saddam is out of power, terrorists have one less ally and one less source of WMD's. I think thats about it.

Well it's a good thing Sadam didn't have any WMD's because when we kicked his Armies ass all their Arms Depots were abandoned by the Iraqi security and the Terrorists and insurgents would have been able to help themselves to them like they were able to help themselves to the conventional weapons they are using against out forces now!

 

[CaptnKirk]

although the Iraqi defense minister did meet Mohammed Atta in Prague

Again, again, and again - that NEVER HAPPENED
it was a fabrication of your friend Chalabi, and his paid Lying Corps.

And you don't pay enough attention to FACTS to sort out the truth
from what you want to believe - just to make you feel better.

 

[Runner20]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Runner20
Saddam is out of power, terrorists have one less ally and one less source of WMD's. I think thats about it.

Well it's a good thing Sadam didn't have any WMD's because when we kicked his Armies ass all their Arms Depots were abandoned by the Iraqi security and the Terrorists and insurgents would have been able to help themselves to them like they were able to help themselves to the conventional weapons they are using against out forces now!

Saddam knew too well if he used WMD's against USA, Baghdad would be off the map. He might be evil but he is clever.

 

[Todd33]

It's funny how terrorist experts say that our invasion of Iraq was the best thing for Al Queda. It helps recruitment and serves up 140,000+ American targets without getting on a plane. But ignore reality, just keep regurgitating RNC talking points. It's easier than thinking.

BTW Kerry never said everyone was committing the war atrocities and some of his testimony was in the form of other soldiers telling him, not first hand accounts.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Runner20
Saddam is out of power, terrorists have one less ally and one less source of WMD's. I think thats about it.

Well it's a good thing Sadam didn't have any WMD's because when we kicked his Armies ass all their Arms Depots were abandoned by the Iraqi security and the Terrorists and insurgents would have been able to help themselves to them like they were able to help themselves to the conventional weapons they are using against out forces now!

Saddam knew too well if he used WMD's against USA, Baghdad would be off the map. He might be evil but he is clever.

WTF does that have to do with the statement of mine that you quoted?

 

[cpumaster]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Saddam knew too well if he used WMD's against USA, Baghdad would be off the map. He might be evil but he is clever.

So using your logic, Saddam is clever enough not use WMD against us to save Baghdad but not celver enough to save his own a$$, I thought the point of being a mad clever dictator is to sacrifice everything in order to keep you in power forever. Eg. Saddam used mustard gas/chem weapon on Iranian and in the process sacrificed some of his front line soldiers just to make sure the Iranian didn't break through in their attack. Saddam was clever enough to negotiate truce with us during Gulf I just to make sure he has free hand in suppressing rebellion against him in the north and south of Iraq, murdering thousands if not more in the process. And you think he would care what Baghdad would looks like if he used his WMD against us in order to keep himself in power? Remember, Baghdad has been razed before in the past history, and been rebuilt many times...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Runner20
There are 15 swift boaters who support Kerry and 250 swift boaters who are opposed to Kerry, so who should we believe?

The ones that were there that day, esp. the ones on Kerry's own boat.

And those whose signatures appear on after-action reports, such as Hoffman and Elliott...two people now proven to be liars with their criticisms of Kerry.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Runner20
Saddam is out of power, terrorists have one less ally and one less source of WMD's. I think thats about it.

Well it's a good thing Sadam didn't have any WMD's because when we kicked his Armies ass all their Arms Depots were abandoned by the Iraqi security and the Terrorists and insurgents would have been able to help themselves to them like they were able to help themselves to the conventional weapons they are using against out forces now!

Saddam knew too well if he used WMD's against USA, Baghdad would be off the map. He might be evil but he is clever.

Then can you tell me why, if he was afraid to use those weapons on us. why were we in such a hurry to invade him?

How about why we haven't found any WMD's?

The Bush campaign has denied any association with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth but so far has refused to condemn the book and the group's TV ads. A report in Friday's New York Times disclosed connections between the anti-Kerry vets and the Bush family, Bush's chief political aide Karl Rove and several high-ranking Texas Republicans. Some of the recent accounts from veterans critical of Kerry have been contradicted by their own earlier statements, the Times reported.

What a two faced leader we have. He play's nicey-nicey for the camera and commends Kerry's war record, but doesn't try and stop the false ads or condemn them. All he would have to do is make a phone call and the ad's would get pulled. Now I hear they have a second ad out? What a hypocrite!!

It's funny how the right wing was dogging Clinton the whole time he was in office about every little thing they could dredge up and try to make him accountable, but they never seem to think their guys should be accountable for anything.

Who was accountable for the Iran/Contra? Reagan claimed he didn't know anything about it. It was his job to know!! If he didn't know he still has to be accountable for it.

Who was accountable for the S&L disaster?

Who cut down on gov't regulation so the Enron's and WorldComm's could ripp off the country and their employee's? Who's accountable for that?

Bush and Powell both infered to the public that Saddam had WMD's. When the inspectors wanted to know where they said "If we told you they would be gone before you got there". Well if they had them, where are they? Now they claim it was "bad" intelligence. People have died, but that doesn't seem to matter. He made the claim of WMD's, he made the choice to invade, and now he should be held accountable.

Instead of talking about these facts you want to argue about Kerry's war record? In the worst case scenario for Kerry, at least he went to Vietnam instead of using political clout to keep him home. At least he had the balls to get shot at and fight back. He showed way more iniative then Bush did. Bush just went off and learned to fly at the taxpayers expense. What a joke! And that is in the worst scenario.

 

[arsbanned]

So the LIARS are refuted again. And again. And again. LIARS.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Runner20
Saddam knew too well if he used WMD's against USA, Baghdad would be off the map. He might be evil but he is clever.

But... but... but... HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY WMD's, and THAT was the primary justification Bush gave for ordering the attack on Iraq.

Of course, that's not what he says, now. The whole WMD line has been shown to be false. The 9/11 Commission and reports from committees from both houses of Congress all confirm that Bush's entire adventure against Iraq was based on faulty information, misinformation and disinformation and outright lies. Any lame alternative excuse Bush offers for his actions, now, is by definition, a "flip flop."

No Iraq was not behind 9/11 --- although the Iraqi defense minister did meet Mohammed Atta in Prague. But we wont get into that.

YES, WE WILL GET INTO THAT! :frown: Wolf Blitzer on CNN, June 17, 2004:

BLITZER: Is this a serious dispute between the White House and the 9/11 Commission, or are we missing something?

(PETER) BEINART: I think we're missing something. First of all, the president is wrong. His own vice president has implied strongly that Saddam did have a role in 9/11, and that's why he made this unfound delegation, said Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker, had met with -- with an Iraqi agent in Prague, something which has now been discredited.
.
.
BLITZER: What they did say, though, in the report issued yesterday was they found no reason to believe that Mohammed Atta, the ringleader of 9/11, was in Prague and met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official. There was no evidence that they had to back that up.

Runner20 -- You can run, but you can't hide from the truth.

 

[0roo0roo]

Link but you have to register to view

use bugmenot.com thats what its for!

 

[Ferocious]

another link

Very interesting indeed.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
another link

Very interesting indeed.

Thanks!

Has the video of the Hardball interview of Thurlow. Wow...Thurlow is lying through his teeth!!!