Will We See r520 in AGP?

[Tanclearas]

Copied from another thread (one of countless similar threads out there)...

Originally posted by: Tanclearas
Once again, this is simple. Read these words. Before you moan about why manufacturers are not committing to AGP, read the words again.

Nvidia and ATI need to focus initial production (which is limited) to where the money is at. The money is with the OEM's. The OEM's are building new PC's. New PC's use PCIe. As shocking as this may sound to you, Nvidia and ATI are in business to make money. They are publicly traded companies. It is their responsibility to make money for their stockholders.

Once again, before you bitch and moan, read that paragraph again. Read it as many times as is necessary to make you understand how the world works.

Will they make AGP versions of their cards? Who knows. Even if they say they won't, they might. The AGP cards will be more expensive due to the necessity of a bridge chip. This means more bitching from AGP users, and even fewer sales of AGP product. These companies will need to be reasonably certain that time invested in testing the new generation of cards with the bridge chip will pay off. Honestly, if I was a betting man, that would not be a bet I'd make.

I just can't believe some of the arguments I'm seeing here.

1) If you're using what will be an old, AGP-based computer two years from now, why do you really care whether you will be able to buy a brand new AGP card?!

2) There have been opportunities to buy a brand new 7800GT(X) that included a PCIe motherboard! I know that this topic is specifically about the R520, but come on people! There have been opportunities for you to move to PCIe that you have ignored because you are simply adamant about sticking with AGP!

3) By the time Nvidia and ATI have a sufficient supply of chips to dedicate to an AGP production, they will have to examine how many AGP cards they could really sell. I would definitely bet that by the time this happens, PCIe motherboards for both AMD and Intel platforms will have been available for over a year (PCIe for AMD became available in the last weeks of 2004)! The percentage of people that actually purchase any upgraded video card is already small. The percentage of people that purchase an upgraded AGP card is only a part of the already small percentage, and that is a figure that, like it or not, will continue dropping.

4) Why the hell would anyone be willing to pay extra for an AGP card that is essentially identical to the PCIe card?! Why would you not use that extra money to just buy a PCIe motherboard?!

I (and most others) acknowledge that PCIe offers virtually zero benefit to AGP right now, and likely won't for another couple of years. That is not the point. PCIe is hardly what anyone can call a "new" technology any more. It has been available for well over a year for the Intel platform, and for 9 months for the AMD platform. That might not seem like a long time, but anyone that even pays the slightest bit of attention to this industry has known for years that PCIe was coming.

The entire industry is based on change. If you can't accept that, then go find another hobby. It is your problem that you are so stubborn that you aren't willing to change with it!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Tanclearas
Copied from another thread (one of countless similar threads out there)...

Originally posted by: Tanclearas
Once again, this is simple. Read these words. Before you moan about why manufacturers are not committing to AGP, read the words again.

Nvidia and ATI need to focus initial production (which is limited) to where the money is at. The money is with the OEM's. The OEM's are building new PC's. New PC's use PCIe. As shocking as this may sound to you, Nvidia and ATI are in business to make money. They are publicly traded companies. It is their responsibility to make money for their stockholders.

Once again, before you bitch and moan, read that paragraph again. Read it as many times as is necessary to make you understand how the world works.

Will they make AGP versions of their cards? Who knows. Even if they say they won't, they might. The AGP cards will be more expensive due to the necessity of a bridge chip. This means more bitching from AGP users, and even fewer sales of AGP product. These companies will need to be reasonably certain that time invested in testing the new generation of cards with the bridge chip will pay off. Honestly, if I was a betting man, that would not be a bet I'd make.

I just can't believe some of the arguments I'm seeing here.

1) If you're using what will be an old, AGP-based computer two years from now, why do you really care whether you will be able to buy a brand new AGP card?!

2) There have been opportunities to buy a brand new 7800GT(X) that included a PCIe motherboard! I know that this topic is specifically about the R520, but come on people! There have been opportunities for you to move to PCIe that you have ignored because you are simply adamant about sticking with AGP!

3) By the time Nvidia and ATI have a sufficient supply of chips to dedicate to an AGP production, they will have to examine how many AGP cards they could really sell. I would definitely bet that by the time this happens, PCIe motherboards for both AMD and Intel platforms will have been available for over a year (PCIe for AMD became available in the last weeks of 2004)! The percentage of people that actually purchase any upgraded video card is already small. The percentage of people that purchase an upgraded AGP card is only a part of the already small percentage, and that is a figure that, like it or not, will continue dropping.

4) Why the hell would anyone be willing to pay extra for an AGP card that is essentially identical to the PCIe card?! Why would you not use that extra money to just buy a PCIe motherboard?!

I (and most others) acknowledge that PCIe offers virtually zero benefit to AGP right now, and likely won't for another couple of years. That is not the point. PCIe is hardly what anyone can call a "new" technology any more. It has been available for well over a year for the Intel platform, and for 9 months for the AMD platform. That might not seem like a long time, but anyone that even pays the slightest bit of attention to this industry has known for years that PCIe was coming.

The entire industry is based on change. If you can't accept that, then go find another hobby. It is your problem that you are so stubborn that you aren't willing to change with it!

what a load of respewed [nVidia] marketing BS
:thumbsdown:

[a bridge chip costs ~$10 . . . ]
:roll:

this argument might have some merit NEXT year when AGP becomes a performance issue

EDIT: i'm off to work . . . it'll be interesting to see what else gets posted . . . :Q



aloha

 

[hooflung]

Intel is to blame not Nvidia or ATi. PCi-E was initially a way for intel to dictate an ISA shift to sell motherboards and press their domination of PC tech. Intel is now treating AGP like the VESA. Where this is wrong is that PCI offered significant, tangible improvements over VESA. The shift from a 32bit to 64bit databus also needed VESA to be changed. VESA was directly related to the 8/16bit ISA slot and that needed to be phased out for the benefit of PC users overall.

AGP is different. It was developed to replace PCI as the connect bus for graphics since Content Developers needed the PCI bandwidth for things such as SCSI, IDE, Sound and USB/FIREWIRE. PCI-e is an unneeded planeshift for anything but Games that are primised (not materialized). There isn't an OpenGL card out that pushes a need for PCI-e over a AGP based twin for things such as 3DS Max, LightWAVE, Maya. Photoshop and the Gimp don't need this planar shift. Who does? Harddrives are limited by moving parts. Games are limited to the CPU now. Sound is all about latency ( does pci-e decrease latency? who knows I sure don't if it doesn't then shame on them ) So why do we need PCI-e... to keep the market afloat during these 'transition times'. PCI-e will be needed 3 years from now. Its not needed now but by the time we wait for it to be mainstream all our stuff in our current PCs will be so outdated it won't be funny. Even my PCi-e system will be so outdated I will need anothe PCI-e system. B@stards the lot of them.

 

[Tanclearas]

Originally posted by: apoppin
what a load of respewed [nVidia] marketing BS
:thumbsdown:

That is your response? There is no marketing BS there. Only truth. Please feel free to offer a more detailed rebuttal, but your flippant comment does not provide any fact as to why ATI and Nvidia should invest money in an extremely small market.

Originally posted by: apoppin
[a bridge chip costs ~$10 . . . ]
:roll:

Did you actually read my post? I really think you should read carefully and understand what is being said before making such an ignorant statement. Even when they reach the point where they evaluate AGP, there is definitely more involved in the process than soldering on a $10 bridge chip. The product must be carefully tested and validated, and I assure you that the engineers don't work for free. The production runs will be limited, which means they cannot get the economy of scale they get with PCIe. Ultimately, the added cost is significantly more than the cost of a $10 bridge chip. I am not a Business major, but even I understand these basic concepts!

Originally posted by: apoppin
this argument might have some merit NEXT year when AGP becomes a performance issue

I am quite convinced you didn't carefully read anything in my post. Very few people (almost no one) are arguing PCIe is faster than AGP. I know that I'm not. Once again, performance is not the point. In an industry of change, that has always been based on change, both major video card manufacturers (all three if you count Intel) made the decision to plan ahead. It was a good business decision based on the fact that the entire industry is based on change. Don't play contact sports if you don't want to get hurt. Don't participate in an industry that has always been based on change if you aren't willing to change.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Tanclearas

Originally posted by: apoppin
what a load of respewed [nVidia] marketing BS
:thumbsdown:

That is your response? There is no marketing BS there. Only truth. Please feel free to offer a more detailed rebuttal, but your flippant comment does not provide any fact as to why ATI and Nvidia should invest money in an extremely small market.

Originally posted by: apoppin
[a bridge chip costs ~$10 . . . ]
:roll:

Did you actually read my post? I really think you should read carefully and understand what is being said before making such an ignorant statement. Even when they reach the point where they evaluate AGP, there is definitely more involved in the process than soldering on a $10 bridge chip. The product must be carefully tested and validated, and I assure you that the engineers don't work for free. The production runs will be limited, which means they cannot get the economy of scale they get with PCIe. Ultimately, the added cost is significantly more than the cost of a $10 bridge chip. I am not a Business major, but even I understand these basic concepts!

Originally posted by: apoppin
this argument might have some merit NEXT year when AGP becomes a performance issue

I am quite convinced you didn't carefully read anything in my post. Very few people (almost no one) are arguing PCIe is faster than AGP. I know that I'm not. Once again, performance is not the point. In an industry of change, that has always been based on change, both major video card manufacturers (all three if you count Intel) made the decision to plan ahead. It was a good business decision based on the fact that the entire industry is based on change. Don't play contact sports if you don't want to get hurt. Don't participate in an industry that has always been based on change if you aren't willing to change.

Truth? . . your version of it.

there are THOUSANDS of people in my position with decent AGP systems that won't be railroaded into PCIe - just for a video card - prematurely . . . as i said, i believe ATI would be foolish to ignore the dollars just waiting on a high-end AGP part . . . i believe the demand is there . . . you don't . . so what?

the alternative [if they are stupid enough to ignore us]: i buy a CONSOLE and ati loses a sale . . . i don't lose out at all.

it COSTS about $10 to add a bridge chip . . . ATI has already set it up for x800 and evidently x1800

read your post? . . there is nothing new or compelling over what has already been posted by others . . . its very clear you didn't read my arguments
:thumbsdown:

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: apoppin
there are THOUSANDS of people in my position with decent AGP systems that won't be railroaded into PCIe - just for a video card - prematurely

I know what you mean. I'm still waiting for my PCI X800XT. How can they ignore users like me running perfectly good P-166 systems?

the alternative [if they are stupid enough to ignore us]: i buy a CONSOLE and ati loses a sale . . . i don't lose out at all.

Either console you buy you're supporting either NVidia or ATI. Haven't been keeping up very well, eh?

its very clear you didn't read my arguments
:thumbsdown:

What arguments.....all you post are emoticons.

 

[Tanclearas]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Truth? . . your version of it.

there are THOUSANDS of people in my position with decent AGP systems that won't be railroaded into PCIe - just for a video card - prematurely . . . as i said, i believe ATI would be foolish to ignore the dollars just waiting on a high-end AGP part . . . i believe the demand is there . . . you don't . . so what?

the alternative [if they are stupid enough to ignore us]: i buy a CONSOLE and ati loses a sale . . . i don't lose out at all.

it COSTS about $10 to add a bridge chip . . . ATI has already set it up for x800 and evidently x1800

read your post? . . there is nothing new or compelling over what has already been posted by others . . . its very clear you didn't read my arguments
:thumbsdown:

Not my version of truth. Just truth. You're talking about THOUSANDS of AGP users. Fine. That is in comparison to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, perhaps MILLIONS of PCIe systems that will be sold this year. If you were in business to make money (why else be in business), which market would you focus on? If you actually respond with AGP, you are either a liar or an idiot.

Try thinking about the big picture. How many systems (not users that upgrade systems) actually ever have the video card upgraded? This includes the computers used by businesses, schools, and average home systems. Percentage-wise, you're talking about a relatively small number. You have three major video manufacturers; ATI, Nvidia, and Intel. Even assuming an even split, you are expecting these manufacturers to pander to a small percentage of one-third of the market. In reality, ATI and Nvidia are looking at a small percentage of about one-quarter of the market.

If you honestly believe that it would only cost an extra $10 per card to do a run of a few thousand cards, then there really isn't anything more I can say to you. I might as well be debating with a wall.

I am reading your posts just fine. You believe you are being forced into PCIe. That is truly a distorted view. As I stated, PCIe has been on the radar for years. Everyone knew it was coming. There were legitimate reasons for starting the transition to PCIe. It was designed to both address existing problems (power and signalling) and prepare for the future (bandwidth). Both ATI and Nvidia provided a transition generation (X800 series and GeForce 6 series). They have to cut AGP at some point, and that will happen when it is no longer economically feasible to release AGP cards. I can't say for certain that that time is now, but if I was forced to make a guess, I would say it is.

If you are looking to blame anyone for the "sudden" (multi-year) transition to PCIe, then start complaining to the Dells, IBMs, and HPs out there that are only interested in using (and purchasing) new technology (those bastards!).

 

[Ronin]

Tanclearas, he's still running a Socket 754 board..nuff said. Stop wasting your time. No matter how much reason you pump into this thread, it's going to be ignored. Let the ignorant stay ignorant, and complain, and eventually, they will realize they're wrong, or they won't. Either way, it's not worth the time.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: apoppin
there are THOUSANDS of people in my position with decent AGP systems that won't be railroaded into PCIe - just for a video card - prematurely

I know what you mean. I'm still waiting for my PCI X800XT. How can they ignore users like me running perfectly good P-166 systems?

Except unlike this poor analogy, the PCI bus cannot delivery the neccesary bandwidth to drive the data for high resolution rendering. The AGP port is quite capable of handling a single modern card, and nobody is refuting that point.

I still hear baseless arguements to be made about how OEMs are shifting, so should I. Technology is progressing, etc. So for some reason OEMs want this ancient PCI slot, but the AGP can be dropped in favor of an interface that replaces it. To put it bluntly, PCIE is supposed to replace PCI, yet nobody is yelling down with PCI. I hear the same tired chants of AGP is yesterdays news, while PCI skips happily along. Seeing as how we are one generation of cards into PCIE in the mainstream, there is really no transitition of other than people like ULI offering an AGP/PCIE solution.

Which would have been fantastic, months ago. I could easily have both interfaces, and made a seemless upgrade. Though like I've stated before, ATI and Nvidia are in this to make money. Selling you an NF3 then an NF4 board is more profitable than selling you a board that would blend the interfaces.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Tanclearas, he's still running a Socket 754 board..nuff said. Stop wasting your time. No matter how much reason you pump into this thread, it's going to be ignored. Let the ignorant stay ignorant, and complain, and eventually, they will realize they're wrong, or they won't. Either way, it's not worth the time.

which is how i feel about you

 

[Ronin]

Sad that you have 18k posts, and you're still an idiot, truly. You're wrong. Live with it. Your reasoning is highly flawed, and ATi and nVidia obviously don't agree with your assessment, and when you DON'T see your precious AGP R520, don't come whining to the rest of us, because you'll only hear an "I told you so" and a hearty laugh. I'm now done wasting my time with this banter, as I have more productive things to do.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Sad that you have 18k posts, and you're still an idiot, truly. You're wrong. Live with it. Your reasoning is highly flawed, and ATi and nVidia obviously don't agree with your assessment, and when you DON'T see your precious AGP R520, don't come whining to the rest of us, because you'll only hear an "I told you so" and a hearty laugh. I'm now done wasting my time with this banter, as I have more productive things to do.

as i said, i truly think - for an "insider" - you post a lot of BS . . . much of which has not panned out as you said.

Because of my "lowly" P4 system you wrongly assume a "superior" attitude. . . .

. . . you have give NO reasoning and yet claim nVidia and ATI agree with yours.
:thumbsdown:

We'll see who turns out to be right

 

[Ronin]

Yup, we will. And I've yet to post inaccurate information, so I have no idea where you're getting that from. If you plan on berating someone, at least provide accurate information about them. You don't want to hear what I have to say because it's not what you want to hear, and while that's certainly your perogative, it doesn't make it right.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Yup, we will. And I've yet to post inaccurate information, so I have no idea where you're getting that from. If you plan on berating someone, at least provide accurate information about them. You don't want to hear what I have to say because it's not what you want to hear, and while that's certainly your perogative, it doesn't make it right.

nor do you hear what i say . . . nor does it make you righjt

here's your most recent BS prediction:

I'm now done wasting my time with this banter, as I have more productive things to do.

:roll:

 

[Paratus]

Hate to say it but every system sold by Dell -HP and the like were AGP systems from ~ 2000 up until last year. Anyone with a skt 478 P4 or nforce 3 amd has agp. That is a huge number compared to the miniscule amount of PCIe systems sold. If even a fraction of them upgrade - and they will or have you not gone to B&M seller like BB, that is a large pool of customers. Especially when your rival has said they won't be touching that pool. Its more than enough money make a limited run of AGP cards. Hell most of those stores still have PCI cards for cripes sake.

 

[apoppin]

Radeon X1300, RV515 goes AGP; Supporting 512 MB of memory

HOW ABOUT $100 for a low end board with 512MB? At the same time the board is AGP or PCIe and will have support for HDR and Shader model 3.0? There will be solution for you. It's called RV515 and will be known as Radeon X1300, AGP of course.

So RV515 will be both AGP and PCIe . . .

still waiting for news about r520

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Tanclearas, he's still running a Socket 754 board..nuff said. Stop wasting your time. No matter how much reason you pump into this thread, it's going to be ignored. Let the ignorant stay ignorant, and complain, and eventually, they will realize they're wrong, or they won't. Either way, it's not worth the time.

still running a skt 754? As if they have been out for 10 years now. Most of us that have 754's did buy into brandnew technology 1.5 years ago. But I'm sure to someone like you who wears his sig. like a life value indicator , 1.5 year old technology must be regarded as thrash that belongs to hobo's. I do believe that AGP should be phased out, but not at the pace that it is happening. I see no reason for there not to be 1 more generation of AGP. I bet you that across the world there are far more AGP systems out there(That are worthy of being called high-end) than pci-e systems. Yes this is only a guess, but I would put $$ where my mouth is on this one. Of all the people I know personally not one has a pci-e system. Thats because we all upgraded less than 2 years ago before pci-e was readily available. I along with appoppin will probably skip this generation of vid cards unless there is a AGP card. I have too much invested in my rig to have to dismantle it and rebuild with components of equal performance and reinstall my OS that I have a lot of personal tweaking done. Sh!t it takes like 1.5 hours alone just to reinstall halflife 2 and steam with all the updates, screw that.

 

[Turtle 1]

Well guys until we know what Arch the X1800xt is its hard to say if it is a unified arch. no agp period. If its a traditional pipes Arch ATI could do this . If its a hybred I don't think it will work with PCI. Now whether or not it being a DX9L card has something to do with it .At this time for me is unknown. But ATI has backed away from the agp . Why I don't have the ans. (X1800xt cards)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache

Originally posted by: Ronin
Tanclearas, he's still running a Socket 754 board..nuff said. Stop wasting your time. No matter how much reason you pump into this thread, it's going to be ignored. Let the ignorant stay ignorant, and complain, and eventually, they will realize they're wrong, or they won't. Either way, it's not worth the time.

still running a skt 754? As if they have been out for 10 years now. Most of us that have 754's did buy into brandnew technology 1.5 years ago. But I'm sure to someone like you who wears his sig. like a life value indicator , 1.5 year old technology must be regarded as thrash that belongs to hobo's. I do believe that AGP should be phased out, but not at the pace that it is happening. I see no reason for there not to be 1 more generation of AGP. I bet you that across the world there are far more AGP systems out there(That are worthy of being called high-end) than pci-e systems. Yes this is only a guess, but I would put $$ where my mouth is on this one. Of all the people I know personally not one has a pci-e system. Thats because we all upgraded less than 2 years ago before pci-e was readily available. I along with appoppin will probably skip this generation of vid cards unless there is a AGP card. I have too much invested in my rig to have to dismantle it and rebuild with components of equal performance and reinstall my OS that I have a lot of personal tweaking done. Sh!t it takes like 1.5 hours alone just to reinstall halflife 2 and steam with all the updates, screw that.

1-1/2 hours :Q

all day on dial-up
:thumbsdown:

Some of us have more to do with our lives then (1) spend big bucks on (2) a zero performance gain [(3) hours selling our old Socket 754 "junk"] and THEN [many many] hours more (4) rebuilding our rig , (5) reinstalling our OS and apps, (6) TWEAKING and benchmarking our "new" system.

Maybe some of you HW addicts love doing this . . . not me. i just want to (1) spend big bucks for a nice card with more features and speed than my old one, (2) remove my old card and replace it with a new one and (3) sell my old card.

My way looks much [much] much simpler but just as effective. Why should i waste my time and money with all the unnecessary "upgrading"? . . . just to be a HW snob?

and with my 2.80c at 3.31Ghz my rig is more-or-less equivalent to a stock a64 3200+ . . . as it "ages" i know i CAN push the O/C to 3.5Ghz with a modest voltage increase . . . it isn't that far behind that i NEED to completely change the platform

 

[Turtle 1]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache

Originally posted by: Ronin
Tanclearas, he's still running a Socket 754 board..nuff said. Stop wasting your time. No matter how much reason you pump into this thread, it's going to be ignored. Let the ignorant stay ignorant, and complain, and eventually, they will realize they're wrong, or they won't. Either way, it's not worth the time.

still running a skt 754? As if they have been out for 10 years now. Most of us that have 754's did buy into brandnew technology 1.5 years ago. But I'm sure to someone like you who wears his sig. like a life value indicator , 1.5 year old technology must be regarded as thrash that belongs to hobo's. I do believe that AGP should be phased out, but not at the pace that it is happening. I see no reason for there not to be 1 more generation of AGP. I bet you that across the world there are far more AGP systems out there(That are worthy of being called high-end) than pci-e systems. Yes this is only a guess, but I would put $$ where my mouth is on this one. Of all the people I know personally not one has a pci-e system. Thats because we all upgraded less than 2 years ago before pci-e was readily available. I along with appoppin will probably skip this generation of vid cards unless there is a AGP card. I have too much invested in my rig to have to dismantle it and rebuild with components of equal performance and reinstall my OS that I have a lot of personal tweaking done. Sh!t it takes like 1.5 hours alone just to reinstall halflife 2 and steam with all the updates, screw that.

Well stated and I agree. Next time I upgrade I want it to standup a little while at least.Three years isn't asking a lot or is it?

 

[rubbahbandman]

I agree there is a market for high-end AGP video cards for those with "older systems" (including myself), but demand doesn't always drive the products that manufacturers release. If they know that they can just wait people out with mid-range systems a year or 2 and have them build a complete mobo+cpu+video card rather than staggered upgrades (like 3 video cards on the same mobo) then damn right they'll do it.

From a sales perspective this is a great deal for them because they know that our group will have to make a big upgrade one way or the other cus even if we manage to hold off upgrading for one generation (e.g. 7800gt + nforce4) we will probably go after their next combo in a year or 2 rather than dragging out our "old" systems.

My personal reasoning behind wanting a high-end AGP card, is that it will save me a lot of money since I already have the processor and mobo, and I just need a video card. But of course they are in the business of making money and since they control both the motherboard and the videocard, why not force us to upgrade both by offering no alternative for something we want, (it isn't like SATA II is the reason most of us want a new motherboard.)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: rubbahbandman
I agree there is a market for high-end AGP video cards for those with "older systems" (including myself), but demand doesn't always drive the products that manufacturers release. If they know that they can just wait people out with mid-range systems a year or 2 and have them build a complete mobo+cpu+video card rather than staggered upgrades (like 3 video cards on the same mobo) then damn right they'll do it.

From a sales perspective this is a great deal for them because they know that our group will have to make a big upgrade one way or the other cus even if we manage to hold off upgrading for one generation (e.g. 7800gt + nforce4) we will probably go after their next combo in a year or 2 rather than dragging out our "old" systems.

My personal reasoning behind wanting a high-end AGP card, is that it will save me a lot of money since I already have the processor and mobo, and I just need a video card. But of course they are in the business of making money and since they control both the motherboard and the videocard, why not force us to upgrade both by offering no alternative for something we want, (it isn't like SATA II is the reason most of us want a new motherboard.)

wait us out? :Q

Doesn't make any business sense.

of course i WILL upgrade to PCIe - but ONLY when i am ready and when i feel my rig is falling behind in performance - but IF they doN'T release a high-end AGP card, ATI will MISS OUT on my $500 THIS YEAR as i will SKIP an upgrade otherwise.

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: lavaheadache

Originally posted by: Ronin
Tanclearas, he's still running a Socket 754 board..nuff said. Stop wasting your time. No matter how much reason you pump into this thread, it's going to be ignored. Let the ignorant stay ignorant, and complain, and eventually, they will realize they're wrong, or they won't. Either way, it's not worth the time.

still running a skt 754? As if they have been out for 10 years now. Most of us that have 754's did buy into brandnew technology 1.5 years ago. But I'm sure to someone like you who wears his sig. like a life value indicator , 1.5 year old technology must be regarded as thrash that belongs to hobo's. I do believe that AGP should be phased out, but not at the pace that it is happening. I see no reason for there not to be 1 more generation of AGP. I bet you that across the world there are far more AGP systems out there(That are worthy of being called high-end) than pci-e systems. Yes this is only a guess, but I would put $$ where my mouth is on this one. Of all the people I know personally not one has a pci-e system. Thats because we all upgraded less than 2 years ago before pci-e was readily available. I along with appoppin will probably skip this generation of vid cards unless there is a AGP card. I have too much invested in my rig to have to dismantle it and rebuild with components of equal performance and reinstall my OS that I have a lot of personal tweaking done. Sh!t it takes like 1.5 hours alone just to reinstall halflife 2 and steam with all the updates, screw that.

1-1/2 hours :Q

all day on dial-up
:thumbsdown:

Some of us have more to do with our lives then (1) spend big bucks on (2) a zero performance gain [(3) hours selling our old Socket 754 "junk"] and THEN [many many] hours more (4) rebuilding our rig , (5) reinstalling our OS and apps, (6) TWEAKING and benchmarking our "new" system.

Maybe some of you HW addicts love doing this . . . not me. i just want to (1) spend big bucks for a nice card with more features and speed than my old one, (2) remove my old card and replace it with a new one and (3) sell my old card.

My way looks much [much] much simpler but just as effective. Why should i waste my time and money with all the unnecessary "upgrading"? . . . just to be a HW snob?

and with my 2.80c at 3.31Ghz my rig is more-or-less equivalent to a stock a64 3200+ . . . as it "ages" i know i CAN push the O/C to 3.5Ghz with a modest voltage increase . . . it isn't that far behind that i NEED to completely change the platform

Damn it stop talking sense. Thats the last thing we need in this thread!

I'm in the same boat. skt 478 P4 3.2E 1 gig 2-2-2-5 ram and a 9600XT. Only thing I would like is a vid card upgrade, but I guess this "junk" just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Paratus

Originally posted by: apoppin

Some of us have more to do with our lives then (1) spend big bucks on (2) a zero performance gain [(3) hours selling our old Socket 754 "junk"] and THEN [many many] hours more (4) rebuilding our rig , (5) reinstalling our OS and apps, (6) TWEAKING and benchmarking our "new" system.

Maybe some of you HW addicts love doing this . . . not me. i just want to (1) spend big bucks for a nice card with more features and speed than my old one, (2) remove my old card and replace it with a new one and (3) sell my old card.

My way looks much [much] much simpler but just as effective. Why should i waste my time and money with all the unnecessary "upgrading"? . . . just to be a HW snob?

and with my 2.80c at 3.31Ghz my rig is more-or-less equivalent to a stock a64 3200+ . . . as it "ages" i know i CAN push the O/C to 3.5Ghz with a modest voltage increase . . . it isn't that far behind that i NEED to completely change the platform

Damn it stop talking sense. Thats the last thing we need in this thread!

I'm in the same boat. skt 478 P4 3.2E 1 gig 2-2-2-5 ram and a 9600XT. Only thing I would like is a vid card upgrade, but I guess this "junk" just doesn't cut it anymore.

thank-you

of course there are the HW snobs who posted here - one an "insider" who gets his stuff for free - who think we should all upgrade just because . . . . because . . . because . . .

. . . because they did and they [think they]'re so "cool".
:thumbsdown:

 

[Turtle 1]

This seems to ans. thread question

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26543