Will We See r520 in AGP?

[apoppin]

Update on the Original AGP thread

Yes

Diamond Viper - ATI Radeon X1800 in AGP

X1800 available in AGP version too
-----------------------------------------------

well my discussion with ronnn in the "fanboy" thread got locked [unrelatedly] and it was ot to the post so i thought it deserved its own . . .

all i see is speculation . . . that last leaked roadmap [stolen from a slide presentation] showed r520 in AGP. . . . from April '05:
ATI?s Next-Gen VPUs to Sport Both AGP 8x and PCI Express x16 - Roadmap.

Slides that presumably come from ATI?s confidential roadmap which were leaked into the Internet recently indicate that the company?s forthcoming graphics chips code-named R520, RV530 and RV515 will support both types of interconnection interface ? PCI Express and AGP8x.

that leaked roadmap - except for the timing of r520's launch which was delayed again - was remarkably accurate [considering].

Why wouldn't we see AGP r520s? . . . the bridge is neither expensive nor difficult to implement . . . ati sure won't sell many xFire systems so they NEED agp $$s [imo].
i believe we will see an AGP card . . . IF they don't, i will not upgrade further than a x850XTPE or 6800u and content myself with a NextGen console for the next couple of years [no loss, from what i also believe as PC gaming will struggle to keep up for that same period] . . . Besides "gaming" there is ZERO reason for me to movie to PCIe [or upgrade from my 3.3Ghz P4] for quite awhile.

i also believe there are thousands of gamers in my position . . . screw ATI and/or nVidia if they don't want my money for a high-end AGP solution then they will get none from me - we have an awesome alternative in the new consoles. . . .

but i really believe if they smell money they will bite . . . mark MY words - we WILL see BOTH r520 and 7800GTX in AGP.

What do you think?

 

[lavaheadache]

they better release an AGP part because I still have a kicka$$ skt754 system that could last a bit longer with a shiny new ATI gpu. I'm gonna guess yes becasue I think there are too many people out there with highend agp systems that are going to voice their opinions by not opening their wallets

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
they better release an AGP part because I still have a kicka$$ skt754 system that could last a bit longer with a shiny new ATI gpu. I'm gonna guess yes becasue I think there are too many people out there with highend agp systems that are going to voice their opinions by not opening their wallets

everything i read says it depends on "demand"

ATI does not have the luxury that nVidia has - their xFire basically stinks - they only have hope to sell ONE video card, not two . . .

i think they would be incredibly stupid to ignore the thousands of people who still are satisfied with AGP 8x . . .

otoh, nVidia wants to sell 2 cards . . . they are milking sli now for maximum dollar . . . we KNOW it only costs $10 for a bridge chip . . . in the future when ati releases their AGP top card, so will they.

my take

 

[imported_g33k]

I sincerely hope so...

 

[lavaheadache]

I just found this http://www.techpowerup.com/index.php?5127. Brand new article saying agp is definately not planned

 

[apoppin]

i saw that earlier and looks like further speculation. . .


we DO know that the r520 will definitely be PCIe-only on release . . . what reliable source says that a AGP version is not to follow?

 

[imported_g33k]

If they don't make one, guess what, neither company will get my money. I will not upgrade my skt 754 until I am ready to go multi core. It might even be better that they don't make one. Because lets say I buy an next gen AGP, once I do go to multi-core, I will still have an high-end AGP card. So sooner or later you have to make the transition. I suppose you could buy a mobo with both AGP and PCI-e. I personally wouldnt want one of those mobos unless I absolutely had to get it.

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally posted by: g33k
If they don't make one, guess what, neither company will get my money. I will not upgrade my skt 754 until I am ready to go multi core. It might even be better that they don't make one. Because lets say I buy an next gen AGP, once I do go to multi-core, I will still have an high-end AGP card. So sooner or later you have to make the transition. I suppose you could buy a mobo with both AGP and PCI-e. I personally wouldnt want one of those mobos unless I absolutely had to get it.

those uli boards do look kind of nice.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: g33k
If they don't make one, guess what, neither company will get my money. I will not upgrade my skt 754 until I am ready to go multi core. It might even be better that they don't make one. Because lets say I buy an next gen AGP, once I do go to multi-core, I will still have an high-end AGP card. So sooner or later you have to make the transition. I suppose you could buy a mobo with both AGP and PCI-e. I personally wouldnt want one of those mobos unless I absolutely had to get it.

well, the ONLY upgrade i plan to my PC in the next 2 years is my videocard . . . IF i can get an AGP r520, it will last me thru most of Unreal3 engine games [2-3 years] . . . if not, a 6800u or x850xtpe will barely get me by for the "must have" PC games . . .

at any rate, i plan for a nextGen console to be my main gaming rig . . . my PC can go back to work - it's gonna be "awhile" before Office Apps require more than a P4 @ 3.3ghz.

i plan to completely upgrade in '08 . . . PCIe2, multicore, whatevers.

 

[Greenman]

You have to admit, SLI is the sweetest piece of marketing since the pet rock. I can picture the meeting where someone at iNvida pointed out that the market for high end video cards was very small, then some bright fellow says, ?So lets get each customer to buy two?. So simple, so elegant, so profitable. And it pretty much locks out AGP. So I guess we won't see much in AGP cards from nVidia.

 

[obeseotron]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
they better release an AGP part because I still have a kicka$$ skt754 system that could last a bit longer with a shiny new ATI gpu. I'm gonna guess yes becasue I think there are too many people out there with highend agp systems that are going to voice their opinions by not opening their wallets

Look at this page on NewEgg. It's socket 754 motherboards with a pci-e 16x slot. Seems like there are a bunch from all the major manufacturers based on Nforce 4 chipsets for less than $80. Don't kid yourself, the high end r520's will be $400-$600, If you want high end performance you're going to have to suck it up and buy a new motherboard. I'm in a similar boat as an nforce3 939 owner, and I'm sure I'll have to replace the motherboard whenever this 6800gt starts to show it's age. There will be a price premium and a 6 month delay for any future agp parts, if they come out at all.

 

[ronnn]

Heck my system is too slow for the x800xt pe I have. Really have to upgrade anyways. No good to me, but I think it would good to produce some. My only question is seeing the size of the r520 and than adding the agp bridge - might be a record of some kind.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Heck my system is too slow for the x800xt pe I have. Really have to upgrade anyways. No good to me, but I think it would good to produce some. My only question is seeing the size of the r520 and than adding the agp bridge - might be a record of some kind.

actually our discussion in the locked fanboy thread is the reason for my starting this :Q

the r520 would "fit" in many high-end AGP systems
[physical size shouldn't be the limiting factor]

i think the "demand" is there and ATI would be foolish not to produce it [considering their weak situation with X-fire]

 

[ronnn]

I agree, if they can make it and sell enough - they should. And who knows, x-fire may take the speed crown one of these days.

 

[imported_BadKarma]

What if the AGP card costs $50-$60 more than the PCI-E card. Would you then reconsider upgrading to a PCI-E mobo for $60 more? You could always sell your old mobo and cpu and use that money towards the upgrade.

 

[vision33r]

Since ATI is interested in cost savings, it would be cost effective to produce only one type of slot instead of two.

If they create an AGP and a PCI-E part, AGP owners would buy the AGP part and not the PCI-E.

I'm sure both Nvidia and ATI make more profit by selling the mass produced PCI-E part than the limited volume AGP part.

If you do the math, it makes no sense for them to try to push out an AGP part.

 

[coomar]

the people who have the high-end systems to support this card can swap to a pci-e board for 50 more (if you factor in what you get for your old mobo)

if they were to release an agp variant, it would be 50 bucks more, who cares if it costs them as someone said 10 bucks to do (and it would be more than 10 bucks)

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ronnn
Heck my system is too slow for the x800xt pe I have. Really have to upgrade anyways. No good to me, but I think it would good to produce some. My only question is seeing the size of the r520 and than adding the agp bridge - might be a record of some kind.

actually our discussion in the locked fanboy thread is the reason for my starting this :Q

the r520 would "fit" in many high-end AGP systems
[physical size shouldn't be the limiting factor]

i think the "demand" is there and ATI would be foolish not to produce it [considering their weak situation with X-fire]

Well, the demand has been there for nVidia to do the same, and yet...no AGP card. You think ATi is going to react any differently? It's not going to make up for the belated launches of both Crossfire and the R520, and I highly doubt it will change the market share.

End result: ATi needs to be making money, not spending it, and creating an AGP variant. No matter how inexpensive you *might* think it is, it isn't.

Neither company would be breaking my heart if they don't come up with an AGP variant, and I don't expect it. Technology is moving forward. If you can't afford to move with it, then that's your loss (I'm speaking in general terms, not to you specifically apoppin). Same holds true for CPUs. Slots change. Better things come out, and they come out fast. Fact is, it's expensive to keep up with technology. B!tching and moaning because technology does isn't going to inhibit it, and ATi and nVidia will continue to move forward, too.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: vision33r
Since ATI is interested in cost savings, it would be cost effective to produce only one type of slot instead of two.

If they create an AGP and a PCI-E part, AGP owners would buy the AGP part and not the PCI-E.

I'm sure both Nvidia and ATI make more profit by selling the mass produced PCI-E part than the limited volume AGP part.

If you do the math, it makes no sense for them to try to push out an AGP part.

Cost effective to produce only one type? That is isnt correct.

Both Nvidia & ATI use simple bridges to make their PCIe native cards to interface with AGP.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: apoppin
well my discussion with ronnn in the "fanboy" thread got locked [unrelatedly] and it was ot to the post so i thought it deserved its own . . .

Actually you are thinking or ronin (hope he is not insulted)! I'm flattered.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

We won't see AGP because there's no excuse for somebody still being on it. You've had numerous opportunities to upgrade for little to no cash out of pocket to huge benefit for yourself and, frankly, if you haven't done it by now, then you aren't the kind of user who is going to plunk down $400 on a video card anyway.

/AGP

 

[PrayForDeath]

I don't see it necessary for them to release AGP variants. But those who are saying they will lose money if they do are wrong. Because there are many people who are willing to make a simple video card upgrade rather than a complete system upgrade to get better performance. And if there's only one option for a video card for those people (assuming they release AGP R520), then ATI will surely benefit from that. It boils down to whether ATI want to kill the AGP standard, or not yet.

 

[TGS]

Or perhaps the people who still have their $400 dollar AGP card, which they purchased when pci-e was barely on the horizon. Those people might be satisfied with the performance of the system except for features in a new card.

I could care less about more AA or AF 4x8x is plenty. What I want is TR SSAA, but spending an additional 100-130 on a reputable pci-e board is a waste.

When you are working with a budget, and you don't get reference materials from sources you have to balance out the items you purchase. Forcing the end user to buy an unnecessary component which has no performance benefits for their current configuration is nonsense.

Do you see HDTVs in stores? Did they get rid of all the <32" TVs? Do you see the '06 car models on the lots? Did they stop making the <20k car models? The newer models of each has qualities that may make the overall product better. Though they also know that the market for people wanting the smaller upgrades will exist, and the products are brought to market to fit those needs.

When someone runs a 19" LCD with a single video card configuration, what benefits will moving to a PCI-E board give you? Are you PCI cards all converted to PCI-E? No. The benefits to moving to PCI-E on a single card configuration rhymes with *zero*.

PCI-E gives me nothing, other than taking away from a memory upgrade that I wanted to put into my system. Though I hardly believe that either ATI or Nvidia would care about my overall computing experience, more less than they have forced my upgrade path to purchase a particular configuration that nets them more money.

 

[ddogg]

im 95% sure that neither ATI nor Nvidia will not release an AGP part for their new generation. if people kept complaining about new technology, it would never progress!! there were so many deals out there offering free motherboards or hugely discounted boards.

 

[Topweasel]

Who says its easy to make a new card for AGP, yeah the Bridge is cheap to add but they have to rewire and redesign and recertify the boards for AGP, it may cost more in extra parts (who knows what the capasitor situation would be when taking into consideration AGP allows less then half the power that PCIe allows which means more power being pulled from power supply), then it would require a dedicated production line. Then it would require new boxes and since they didn't think about doing this write away simple things like manuals would have to get redone, then they would need to purchase extra retail space at some retail stores or lower the amount of their other products at said stores to sell them.

I don't have a degree an economy but thats like millions to help out one tenth of the 1% of systems that would use that type of card.