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Will there be an uproar when Obamacare is repealed?

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ivwshane said:
Do you think their bad decisions could possibly have a negative effect on you? Or do you think you are immune from the effects of peoples bad decisions?
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@Brainonska511 answered it before I was able to respond. I'm ALL FOR the ACA or single payer or whatever. I completely believe that all Americans should be covered. BUT, if we have a system like ACA and people simply say "screw that! I'm not paying for the ACA! I'm a healthy 20 year old that doesn't smoke!" Then gets hit by a bus... well, they chose poorly.
 
ivwshane said:
That feels good and sounds smart but it's also extremely short sided. What do you think people who have a history of making bad life decisions will do when they can't afford necessary medical treatment?
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That's why I want mandatory buy-in to protect against that risk instead of people forgoing the cost of insurance until it becomes an expensive economic necessity.
 
ivwshane said:
Maybe, maybe not. They may be at greater risk if they are unhealthy but that doesn't mean healthy people still can't get expensively sick and you still haven't addressed the fact that some people are born "unhealthy". Who pays for them?
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That is part of the program. If the parents are healthy people, their insurance coverage shouldn't be that expensive. If they have a child and something unfortunate happens that causes the child to be born "unhealthy", the child would be covered under the parents' insurance. This will encourage responsible living and health. You choose to live an unhealthy life? You will have to pay. If you live a healthy life, you won't have to pay as much. If your lifestyle goes from healthy to unhealthy, your health insurance cost goes up. And vice versa, anyone living an unhealthy lifestyle changing and showing improvement, their insurance cost would steadily decrease.

The goal is to encourage people to live healthy.
 
ivwshane said:
That feels good and sounds smart but it's also extremely short sided. What do you think people who have a history of making bad life decisions will do when they can't afford necessary medical treatment?
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This is very interesting. My brother is on BadgerCare... basically socialist healthcare provided by the state of Wisconsin for those who are too rich for Medicaid but too poor to afford real health insurance.

Anyhow he just got diagnosed with cancer. He has skin cancer that has migrated to his lymph nodes. He has a 50/50 chance of living for another 5 years. The cost for his medical care will easily exceed 500k. He is going to receive the same standard of care that I would receive even though I have paid full freight for my health care for my entire life and he has either went uninsured or had socialized insurance during that same time.

Ironically he is a rabid conservative fundamentalist Christian who thinks taxes are unconstitutional. Someone needs to explain that one to me.

Health care should be nationalized and funded by a payroll tax. That's howall the other civilized nations do it.
 
SNC said:
So you believe that that clause allows for taking from one and giving to another with no benefit to the one who was robbed?
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The 16th amendment covers that one. Yes, Congress and the Pres can do that through law, and do do that every single day.
 
SNC said:
So you believe that that clause allows for taking from one and giving to another with no benefit to the one who was robbed?
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Why do you think people that pay more in taxes don't derive a benefit from taxes used to cover social programs for the less fortunate?
 
bshole said:
Health care should be nationalized and funded by a payroll tax. That's howall the other civilized nations do it.
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That specific tax is likely to become highly unreliable in a couple decades.
It sort of works today, but attaching anything to employment is risky.
 
bshole said:
Health care should be nationalized and funded by a payroll tax. That's howall the other civilized nations do it.
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A payroll tax, so that those that receive compensation via other means (i.e. passive income or some other non-wage based earnings) get out of paying into said healthcare system? Why not just levy a broader tax on all income, regardless of source, to pay for it?
 
Brainonska511 said:
A payroll tax, so that those that receive compensation via other means (i.e. passive income or some other non-wage based earnings) get out of paying into said healthcare system? Why not just levy a broader tax on all income, regardless of source, to pay for it?
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That was what I meant.... sorry. Definitely an all income tax.

Aren't even conservatives starting to come to this conclusion as well? It is pretty evident that privatized health insurance is unsustainable.
 
bshole said:
That was what I meant.... sorry. Definitely an all income tax.

Aren't even conservatives starting to come to this conclusion as well? It is pretty evident that privatized health insurance is unsustainable.
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Unsustainable or not doesn't matter for those who are currently and will continue to be covered by employer subsidized medical insurance. Simple reality is that whether people die under the current situation due to lack of coverage or other factors matters less to me and the majority of folks than not screwing up our current satisfactory healthcare status quo. If you want to provide "universal" healthcare then you're going to need to accept that the middle/upper classes aren't going to pay for healthcare for the poor that's of high quality like what we pay for ourselves. If 'universal' healthcare comes it's going to look like universal education, with poors getting access to crappy overcrowded schools that are little more than warehouses for dysfunction while the middle class and wealthy get great schools for their kids. Attempting to give the poor either great schools or medical care would result in the unelection of every politician who voted for it and whatever machinations that would be required by the middle/upper class to ensure they got access to proper care while the poor were left to effectively rot. See NYC public schools for an example of what would happen to the medical field.
 
glenn1 said:
Unsustainable or not doesn't matter for those who are currently and will continue to be covered by employer subsidized medical insurance. Simple reality is that whether people die under the current situation due to lack of coverage or other factors matters less to me and the majority of folks than not screwing up our current satisfactory healthcare status quo. If you want to provide "universal" healthcare then you're going to need to accept that the middle/upper classes aren't going to pay for healthcare for the poor that's of high quality like what we pay for ourselves.
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The health insurance that my company provides for its employees now is complete garbage when compared to the health insurance it offered when I started 19 years ago. The original health plan was absolutely free for the employee. It is now $4k/yr for a family for the worst option and $6k/yr for the best option. That is still just a fraction of what the company is eating. So your insurance is worse than it once was and will continue to deteriorate each year.

It makes no sense to saddle employers with the expense of the health care for their employees. Take that burden off the employers and suddenly American workers become much more competitive on the global market in terms of cost.

The poor and uninsured use the emergency room like the rest of us use our family doctor. This means that we are actually paying much more for them than if we just gave them regular health insurance. They are using the most expensive health care options because that is all that is available to them.
 
bshole said:
The health insurance that my company provides for its employees now is complete garbage when compared to the health insurance it offered when I started 19 years ago. The original health plan was absolutely free for the employee. It is now $4k/yr for a family for the worst option and $6k/yr for the best option. That is still just a fraction of what the company is eating. So your insurance is worse than it once was and will continue to deteriorate each year.

It makes no sense to saddle employers with the expense of the health care for their employees. Take that burden off the employers and suddenly American workers become much more competitive on the global market in terms of cost.

The poor and uninsured use the emergency room like the rest of us use our family doctor. This means that we are actually paying much more for them than if we just gave them regular health insurance. They are using the most expensive health care options because that is all that is available to them.
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Companies that don't even offer insurance are the fucking worst. I don't know any poor or uninsured people that actively go to the emergency room. You must have never heard of an urgent care clinic?


Ino OTHER news, just saw that we repealed coverage for preexisting conditions and a whole host of other shit. I just want to thank all the old ass Patriots that brought this upon us. Seems a fitting time though, as their generation will be the next to go.
 
EduCat said:
Companies that don't even offer insurance are the fucking worst. I don't know any poor or uninsured people that actively go to the emergency room. You must have never heard of an urgent care clinic?
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Urgent care clinics sorta demand payment up front, either cash or insurance, so the "poors" and uninsured surely don't utilize them....they use the ER, simpleton. Just because you don't personally know anyone who does doesn't mean that's not the single avenue for the poor to access healthcare in the U.S. It is, unless free clinics are available, which in the majority of states, they aren't.
 
JSt0rm said:
trump said the other day everyone would be covered. I would be loling in tears if we get universal healthcare from trump.
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Hell, didn't DSF or some other dishonest conservative here claim they were hoping for single payer from Trump? I guess they didn't realize they could have gotten that with Dems decades ago. :tearsofjoy:
 
First said:
Hell, didn't DSF or some other dishonest conservative here claim they were hoping for single payer from Trump? I guess they didn't realize they could have gotten that with Dems decades ago. :tearsofjoy:
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They are fucking stupid. I dont even give a fuck who gives us uni healthcare. Just that we get it. If the retards want to take credit for it fine.
 
JSt0rm said:
They are fucking stupid. I dont even give a fuck who gives us uni healthcare. Just that we get it. If the retards want to take credit for it fine.
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Yeah, I suppose it would be great if Trump got credit for universal healthcare because it would permanently change the way Republicans believe and accept the necessity of gov't-mandated healthcare systems. Of course, I'm sure they'll be some lame shit excuse about it being "State run healthcare!" instead of the feds, but really, that's just government by another name.

Ain't progress grand? :tearsofjoy:
 
Meghan54 said:
Urgent care clinics sorta demand payment up front, either cash or insurance, so the "poors" and uninsured surely don't utilize them....they use the ER, simpleton. Just because you don't personally know anyone who does doesn't mean that's not the single avenue for the poor to access healthcare in the U.S. It is, unless free clinics are available, which in the majority of states, they aren't.
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Lolol let me guess, you have never been uninsured or poor. Classic irony, simpleton.
 
Who cares? Not my problem. My employer will just keep giving me healthcare of whatever variety they can afford and I will pay the difference.

Elected officials are not that stupid. They are not just goiong to end Obamacare the next day. They will at least give till the end of the year or maybe two years to phase it out into whatever else is developed.

The real problem with obama care is that the only people that are using it are the poor and people who get no healthcare from their employer. Wal-mart comes to mind, but no one at wal-mart gets healthcare unless they are a full-time employee. Wal-mart has an insurance plan but most employees cant afford it.

For instance the government could have linked EIC to obamacare and make anyone with no insurace ineligible for EIC.
 
Homerboy said:
@Brainonska511 answered it before I was able to respond. I'm ALL FOR the ACA or single payer or whatever. I completely believe that all Americans should be covered. BUT, if we have a system like ACA and people simply say "screw that! I'm not paying for the ACA! I'm a healthy 20 year old that doesn't smoke!" Then gets hit by a bus... well, they chose poorly.
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The problem is that kid who gets hit by a bus gets taken to a trauma hospital, undergoes 14 hours of surgery and dies in an ICU anyway and society foots the hundred thousand dollar bill.

If we're lucky we'll get some useable organs out of him. Otherwise I'd say society is the one choosing poorly at multiple levels either by choosing to pay for this or by not forcing the healthy young man to participate in the healthcare system financially prior.
 
EduCat said:
Lolol let me guess, you have never been uninsured or poor. Classic irony, simpleton.
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to be fair, "urgent care clinics" are not the same as hospital ERs. i don't have any experience with urgent care clinics, but a hospital ER took me while i was briefly uninsured. that was a nightmare to sort out but eventually i got it taken care of (only paid like $2k of a ~15k bill)
 
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