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Will The Donald hold hands with Paul Ryan?

swamplizard

swamplizard

Senior member
Greetings all,

I've been under the weather for the last week. A special shout out to werepossum.

The Donald and Paul Ryan are scheduled to meet on Thursday, but I understand that intermediaries are already meeting to discuss the meeting's agenda. Will far right conservative Ryan fold before the Donald or will he abdicate his position as Speaker of the House?

In either case, it looks gloomy for the neo-Nazi repuglicans.
 
I'm pretty sure they'll be able to agree on trickle down tax cuts & less financial regulation.

They can easily come together on the usual Repub perma-issues of guns, bigger military, abortion, immigration & so forth.

Their differences are more a matter of style than of policy.
 
I'm not sure, Ryan's an ideological purist, something Trump is definitely not. They may still come out of this as more "allies" than not but I don't think it's a sure thing. Plus Trump campaigning that SotH Ryan isn't particularly fond of him isn't going to exactly hurt him among his supporters. I don't see a lot of motivation to hold hands on either side TBH.
 
swamplizard said:
Will far right conservative Ryan fold before the Donald or will he abdicate his position as Speaker of the House?
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WTF? Ryan isnt far right. Ryan is a liberal RINO big governemnt big pharma big banker big *everything* stooge. If he was an actual conservative he would have shut this clown show down until they passed a balanced budget.
 
sm625 said:
WTF? Ryan isnt far right. Ryan is a liberal RINO big governemnt big pharma big banker big *everything* stooge. If he was an actual conservative he would have shut this clown show down until they passed a balanced budget.
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Greetings sm625,

If Ryan is a liberal what is a conservative? A Cruz-two-point-oh?
 
zinfamous said:
Hitler/Mussolini.

That is the conservative standard for the whacko fringe that defines such things today.
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Hi zinfamous,

Actually, I was just noticing the similarities between Trump and Hitler.

Like Hitler, Trump tells them what they wish they could say.
Like Hitler, Trump has his crowds swear allegiance to him.
Like Hitler, Trump has found a scapegoat with the Muslims instead of the Jews.
Like Hitler, Trump has the endorsement of the Neo-Nazi crowd, such as the KKK.
Like Hitler, he promises to make the fatherland "Great again."
Like Hitler, he promises mass deportations of the less than white citizens.
There are more, but this paints a portrait of where the Trump gets his ideas.
 
sm625 said:
WTF?? Hitler was NOT a conservative. He was obviously yet another big governemnt liberal.
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Fascism is generally considered to be an ultra right wing ideology or at best a 'third way' ideology. Fascists themselves frequently described their ideology as being on the right. There's a reason why they went out of their way to kill all the socialists and communists and it wasn't because they were afraid they were too similar.

The only people you see trying to paint fascism as on the left are conservatives trying to get out from under the stigma of the monstrous crimes committed by far right governments. Liberals should accept and own the consequences of extreme versions of their ideology and so should conservatives.
 
eskimospy said:
Fascism is generally considered to be an ultra right wing ideology or at best a 'third way' ideology. Fascists themselves frequently described their ideology as being on the right. There's a reason why they went out of their way to kill all the socialists and communists and it wasn't because they were afraid they were too similar.

The only people you see trying to paint fascism as on the left are conservatives trying to get out from under the stigma of the monstrous crimes committed by far right governments. Liberals should accept and own the consequences of extreme versions of their ideology and so should conservatives.
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You can call him whatever wing you want. But Hitler was a liberal. It is an understatement to say that he expanded the size and scope of his government. That is what liberalism is. It is the opposite of conservatism. One of the reasons our government is so dysfunctional is because people obviously do not understand the meaning of these words, so they keep electing liberals that call themselves both left and right. Liberals expand the amount of governemnt regulations, government spending, deficits, debt, all those are measures of how liberal or conservative a government is. Because those measures are all sliding constantly in one direction it means that our government is totally infested by liberalism. This will remain so until those who call themselves conservative actually start voting for candidates who actually are conservative.
 
sm625 said:
You can call him whatever wing you want. But Hitler was a liberal. It is an understatement to say that he expanded the size and scope of his government. That is what liberalism is. It is the opposite of conservatism. One of the reasons our government is so dysfunctional is because people obviously do not understand the meaning of these words, so they keep electing liberals that call themselves both left and right. Liberals expand the amount of governemnt regulations, government spending, deficits, debt, all those are measures of how liberal or conservative a government is. Because those measures are all sliding constantly in one direction it means that our government is totally infested by liberalism. This will remain so until those who call themselves conservative actually start voting for candidates who actually are conservative.
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Again, you are a binary-thinking ignorant sock puppet.

Liberalism is not "about" the expansion of government. Not at all. it is the talking point of a brainwashed simpleton that can't debate within the realm of complicated policy platforms.

Some policies of traditional liberalism will result in government expansion, some do not. Of course the same is absolutely very true of conservative policies. Remember the great saint Reagan? biggest government expansion and government debt in modern history. Same with Dubya.

golf clap.

Oh, and Hitler, too...because he was a right-wing conservative fascist. ...He was also a devout Christian, but that's another topic.

Stalin is the left-wing monster that you should be holding up against your liberal enemies. Thing is, most liberals are smarter than you and both realize this and decry Stalin for his evilness. FWIW, I consider Stalin the greater evil of those two monsters.
 
swamplizard said:
Greetings sm625,

If Ryan is a liberal what is a conservative? A Cruz-two-point-oh?
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Lee, Cruz, and Paul are 3 you can safely call real fiscal conservatives. But you also have this odd distinction between fiscal conservatism and social conservatism which serves to further muddy the waters...
 
sm625 said:
You can call him whatever wing you want. But Hitler was a liberal. It is an understatement to say that he expanded the size and scope of his government.
Click to expand...

It's not what I call him, it's the collective judgment of countless historians, economists, political scientists after analyzing fascism for more than half a century. I have no doubt you think you know better though because reasons.

That is what liberalism is. It is the opposite of conservatism. One of the reasons our government is so dysfunctional is because people obviously do not understand the meaning of these words, so they keep electing liberals that call themselves both left and right.
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I am aware of no definition of liberalism or conservatism that define themselves solely by whether or not government has increased or decreased in size. This strongly indicates to me that you don't understand the meaning of these words and have instead substituted your own definitions for the actual ones.

Liberals expand the amount of governemnt regulations, government spending, deficits, debt, all those are measures of how liberal or conservative a government is. Because those measures are all sliding constantly in one direction it means that our government is totally infested by liberalism. This will remain so until those who call themselves conservative actually start voting for candidates who actually are conservative.
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This is again simply not the definition of liberalism or conservative by any standard I am aware of. Can you provide links to where you're getting these definitions? By your logic a government that passes a law to kill all gay people is undertaking a liberal action. Similarly, a government that passes a law that removes the penalty of murder for anyone expressing a religious conviction is undertaking a conservative action.

These are not logical definitions and so you can hardly be surprised that nobody follows them.
 
sm625 said:
You can call him whatever wing you want. But Hitler was a liberal. It is an understatement to say that he expanded the size and scope of his government. That is what liberalism is. It is the opposite of conservatism. One of the reasons our government is so dysfunctional is because people obviously do not understand the meaning of these words, so they keep electing liberals that call themselves both left and right. Liberals expand the amount of governemnt regulations, government spending, deficits, debt, all those are measures of how liberal or conservative a government is. Because those measures are all sliding constantly in one direction it means that our government is totally infested by liberalism. This will remain so until those who call themselves conservative actually start voting for candidates who actually are conservative.
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A prime example of the failure of the American education system?
 
sm625 said:
You can call him whatever wing you want. But Hitler was a liberal.
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Especially on social issues! 🙄

All that free housing he built for the Jews was brilliant! Showers for everyone!
 
I guess this thread is now about Hitler. Is there a corollary to Godwin's law in this?

In my opinion you can't really peg Hitler down neatly in a modern American conservative vs liberal dichotomy. His traditionalism, populism, nationalism, and moral views could be deemed conservative-leaning. On the other hand, he instituted several social programs and services that could be deemed liberal-leaning. He was very authoritarian but I don't think that's strictly a matter of conservatism or liberalism - but I'm sure many will disagree.

One thing that I think is worth considering, as controversial a statement as this may be, is that Hitler's many great atrocities shouldn't necessarily color all of his political positions or actions as wrong or bad.
 
Exophase said:
I guess this thread is now about Hitler. Is there a corollary to Godwin's law in this?

In my opinion you can't really peg Hitler down neatly in a modern American conservative vs liberal dichotomy. His traditionalism, populism, nationalism, and moral views could be deemed conservative-leaning. On the other hand, he instituted several social programs and services that could be deemed liberal-leaning. He was very authoritarian but I don't think that's strictly a matter of conservatism or liberalism - but I'm sure many will disagree.

One thing that I think is worth considering, as controversial a statement as this may be, is that Hitler's many great atrocities shouldn't necessarily color all of his political positions or actions as wrong or bad.
Click to expand...

It's called "Right Wing Authoritarianism" for a reason.
 
sm625 said:
You can call him whatever wing you want. But Hitler was a liberal. It is an understatement to say that he expanded the size and scope of his government. That is what liberalism is. It is the opposite of conservatism. One of the reasons our government is so dysfunctional is because people obviously do not understand the meaning of these words, so they keep electing liberals that call themselves both left and right. Liberals expand the amount of governemnt regulations, government spending, deficits, debt, all those are measures of how liberal or conservative a government is. Because those measures are all sliding constantly in one direction it means that our government is totally infested by liberalism. This will remain so until those who call themselves conservative actually start voting for candidates who actually are conservative.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of Cliven Bundy's interpretation of the Constitution.
 
Back on topic, Ryan needs Trump a whole lot more than Trump needs Ryan. That will be Trumps initial bargaining position, and the pivot on which everything will swing.
 
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