Will science ever wipe out organized religion?

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Whisper

As I said before, I choose not to take the bible literally, nor believe necessarily all that it puts forth. This is because, as I said earlier, it was recorded by humans, and therefore subject to their personal biases and world views. I feel Hell to be one of these biases, although I very well could be wrong, and might change my opinion at some later point.

If you do not take the Bible at its word, then you are not a Christian. The Bible is the inspired (literally "breathed in") Word of God, physically written by various men, but the turth and word coming from God Himself. The Bible was preserved by God, even through the course of thousands of years and many copies (compare the current Bible to manuscripts from centuries ago). You can't pick and choose what you like about the Bible and then reject the rest; the Bible is not subject to private interpretations. If you reject God's Word, then you reject God Himself, because His Word is an aspect of who He is.

You are right that people can be biased, but if you truly are saved, the Holy Spirit dwells in you, and you will be able to discern the truth of the Bible and be able to reject the false teachings of others (and there are many false teachers and teachings).

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: magomago
I read it all of this - man I love Vic HE may have a pointed tongue at times, but he clearly has no bias for or against religion.


As far as I'm concerned - the two aren't really related...

I can be a "scientist" and try to understand the basic fundamentals by which things in nature work and STILL believe in God...

And Vic brought up good points - MANY people who really propelled our sciences were religious. Aside from the list he came up with, names like Cauchy (who was a very devout catholic) who absolutely dominate continuum mechanics appear left and right.

They may have been religious, but it wasn't their religious acts that propelled science.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Crono
Everything in heaven is perfect. Heaven, contrary to popular culture, is not some mystical clouds in the sky type thing that you see in those Philly cream cheese commercials. Heaven (the heaven that believers go to after death and the return of Christ) is actually the combined kingdom of Heaven (spiritual in nature, where God's throne is and where the angels are) and the new, perfect Earth and universe that will be created by Christ. In the Kingdom of God (kingdom of the new heavens and earth) there will be an abundance of learning, praising God, and other glorious things that we cannot even imagine. People in the Kingdom of God will have physical bodies, but they will be new, perfect, immortal and incorruptible bodies.

How do you know? Because one book that presents no evidence says so? I don't even recall the Bible giving a clear description of heaven.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Whisper

As I said before, I choose not to take the bible literally, nor believe necessarily all that it puts forth. This is because, as I said earlier, it was recorded by humans, and therefore subject to their personal biases and world views. I feel Hell to be one of these biases, although I very well could be wrong, and might change my opinion at some later point.

If you do not take the Bible at its word, then you are not a Christian. The Bible is the inspired (literally "breathed in") Word of God, physically written by various men, but the turth and word coming from God Himself. The Bible was preserved by God, even through the course of thousands of years and many copies (compare the current Bible to manuscripts from centuries ago). You can't pick and choose what you like about the Bible and then reject the rest; the Bible is not subject to private interpretations. If you reject God's Word, then you reject God Himself, because His Word is an aspect of who He is.

You are right that people can be biased, but if you truly are saved, the Holy Spirit dwells in you, and you will be able to discern the truth of the Bible and be able to reject the false teachings of others (and there are many false teachers and teachings).

but didn't constantine assemble teh current collection of the bible?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Everything in heaven is perfect. Heaven, contrary to popular culture, is not some mystical clouds in the sky type thing that you see in those Philly cream cheese commercials. Heaven (the heaven that believers go to after death and the return of Christ) is actually the combined kingdom of Heaven (spiritual in nature, where God's throne is and where the angels are) and the new, perfect Earth and universe that will be created by Christ. In the Kingdom of God (kingdom of the new heavens and earth) there will be an abundance of learning, praising God, and other glorious things that we cannot even imagine. People in the Kingdom of God will have physical bodies, but they will be new, perfect, immortal and incorruptible bodies.

If man has free will in heaven, then I don't see how "perfection" is possible

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

but didn't constantine assemble teh current collection of the bible?

Yea, and it was probably politically motivated.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: magomago
I read it all of this - man I love Vic HE may have a pointed tongue at times, but he clearly has no bias for or against religion.


As far as I'm concerned - the two aren't really related...

I can be a "scientist" and try to understand the basic fundamentals by which things in nature work and STILL believe in God...

And Vic brought up good points - MANY people who really propelled our sciences were religious. Aside from the list he came up with, names like Cauchy (who was a very devout catholic) who absolutely dominate continuum mechanics appear left and right.

They may have been religious, but it wasn't their religious acts that propelled science.

Yes, I'm sure their desire to discover the nature of existence had nothing to do with their religious beliefs or their scientific discoveries.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Mo0o

but didn't constantine assemble teh current collection of the bible?

Yea, and it was probably politically motivated.

Finally, you said something truthful in this thread. Wow.

Yes, it was politically motivated. Which is why Christianity more resembles Constantine's Mithras worship than the gnostic/Coptic beliefs of the early Christians.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Crono
Everything in heaven is perfect. Heaven, contrary to popular culture, is not some mystical clouds in the sky type thing that you see in those Philly cream cheese commercials. Heaven (the heaven that believers go to after death and the return of Christ) is actually the combined kingdom of Heaven (spiritual in nature, where God's throne is and where the angels are) and the new, perfect Earth and universe that will be created by Christ. In the Kingdom of God (kingdom of the new heavens and earth) there will be an abundance of learning, praising God, and other glorious things that we cannot even imagine. People in the Kingdom of God will have physical bodies, but they will be new, perfect, immortal and incorruptible bodies.

How do you know? Because one book that presents no evidence says so?

What evidence would it take for you to believe? If you do not believe in faith, you would not believe even if the dead were raised. All the evidence needed for believing in the existence of God is written in the heart of man and in all of creation, so that no man is without excuse for not believing in Him.

I don't even recall the Bible giving a clear description of heaven.

Isaiah 2:2-4
" Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the LORD?s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.
Many people shall come and say,

?Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.?
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore."

Revelation 7:9-12:
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, ?Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!? All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:


? Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.?"

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Whisper

As I said before, I choose not to take the bible literally, nor believe necessarily all that it puts forth. This is because, as I said earlier, it was recorded by humans, and therefore subject to their personal biases and world views. I feel Hell to be one of these biases, although I very well could be wrong, and might change my opinion at some later point.

If you do not take the Bible at its word, then you are not a Christian. The Bible is the inspired (literally "breathed in") Word of God, physically written by various men, but the turth and word coming from God Himself. The Bible was preserved by God, even through the course of thousands of years and many copies (compare the current Bible to manuscripts from centuries ago). You can't pick and choose what you like about the Bible and then reject the rest; the Bible is not subject to private interpretations. If you reject God's Word, then you reject God Himself, because His Word is an aspect of who He is.

You are right that people can be biased, but if you truly are saved, the Holy Spirit dwells in you, and you will be able to discern the truth of the Bible and be able to reject the false teachings of others (and there are many false teachers and teachings).

but didn't constantine assemble teh current collection of the bible?

God used various people, including non-Christians, throughout history to accomplish His will. Whether Constantine was one of the human vectors by which the Bible was collected into one single book, I do not know, but I do know that the Bible is God's Word.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

 

[aidanjm]

Religion and reason are almost always in conflict with each other. people who are committed to reasonable, rational thought and argument find it terribly difficult to sustain a god belief. as members of our society become more literate in science, and as they learn to think in more sensible, reasonable, rational ways, organized religion will lose influence.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

why does a loving god create a 'Hell' and condemn his creations to an eternity there?

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

seems rather unloving that he intentionally puts people on earth knowing they will go to hell

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

seems rather unloving that he intentionally puts people on earth knowing they will go to hell

It is positively sadistic. you would have to be more than a little bit masochistic to be willing to worship a sadist god. where is the self respect in that?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

seems rather unloving that he intentionally puts people on earth knowing they will go to hell

It is positively sadistic. you would have to be more than a little bit masochistic to be willing to worship a sadist god. where is the self respect in that?

God is loving. It is part of His will and plan that people would be able to choose to obey Him or disobey Him. You cannot say that it is "sadistic" - God chose to create the universe a certain way, and as He is God, you have no perspective, authority, or comprehension to say anything about how God created you or anyone else.

"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, ?I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.?So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, ?For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.? Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

You will say to me then, ?Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?? But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, ?Why have you made me like this?? Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? " - Romans 9:14-21

What is truly amazing is that God would, out of love, choose to save anyone, because none of us deserves salvation. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

 

[johnjbruin]

Q: Will science ever wipe out organized religion?

Answer: I sure hope so.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Mo0o

but didn't constantine assemble teh current collection of the bible?

Yea, and it was probably politically motivated.

Finally, you said something truthful in this thread. Wow.

Yes, it was politically motivated. Which is why Christianity more resembles Constantine's Mithras worship than the gnostic/Coptic beliefs of the early Christians.

What? Everything I say is the truth. I just like to twist it sometimes to piss people off

I guess I shouldn't have said the organized religion hasn't provided any value added - put I'll still put my faith into science and the people here on earth.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Whisper

As I said before, I choose not to take the bible literally, nor believe necessarily all that it puts forth. This is because, as I said earlier, it was recorded by humans, and therefore subject to their personal biases and world views. I feel Hell to be one of these biases, although I very well could be wrong, and might change my opinion at some later point.

If you do not take the Bible at its word, then you are not a Christian. The Bible is the inspired (literally "breathed in") Word of God, physically written by various men, but the turth and word coming from God Himself. The Bible was preserved by God, even through the course of thousands of years and many copies (compare the current Bible to manuscripts from centuries ago). You can't pick and choose what you like about the Bible and then reject the rest; the Bible is not subject to private interpretations. If you reject God's Word, then you reject God Himself, because His Word is an aspect of who He is.

You are right that people can be biased, but if you truly are saved, the Holy Spirit dwells in you, and you will be able to discern the truth of the Bible and be able to reject the false teachings of others (and there are many false teachers and teachings).

but didn't constantine assemble teh current collection of the bible?

God used various people, including non-Christians, throughout history to accomplish His will. Whether Constantine was one of the human vectors by which the Bible was collected into one single book, I do not know, but I do know that the Bible is God's Word.

The Bible was put together long before Constantine existed. The final revision was what was completed at his time. He himself had precious little to do with it, other than simply organizing the people necessary to agree on the final revision.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

seems rather unloving that he intentionally puts people on earth knowing they will go to hell

It is positively sadistic. you would have to be more than a little bit masochistic to be willing to worship a sadist god. where is the self respect in that?

God is loving. It is part of His will and plan that people would be able to choose to obey Him or disobey Him. You cannot say that it is "sadistic" - God chose to create the universe a certain way, and as He is God, you have no perspective, authority, or comprehension to say anything about how God created you or anyone else.

sorry, but someone who says "Obey me or you go to Hell for eternity!" *IS* sadistic. I want no part of such twisted nonsense. I certainly would not lick the a**hole of such a being by 'worshipping' or 'obeying' him or her, lol.

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Crono

Because the believers who go to heaven will made perfect by God's power and in God's image. Man will not be enslaved to sin as he is on this earth, and thus has the to do what is right.

What is God's image?

If you read the Bible, you will see God's attributes. He is perfectly loving, gracious, just, patient, forgiving, and honest. Man is already (to an extent) in the image of God, but because of the fall was corrupted. In heaven, we will be made perfect in the image of God. All three of man's major aspects (mind, body, and soul) will be perfect.

seems rather unloving that he intentionally puts people on earth knowing they will go to hell

It is positively sadistic. you would have to be more than a little bit masochistic to be willing to worship a sadist god. where is the self respect in that?

There is none, yet you're supposed to love the human form as it was made in the likeness of God. Christianity contradicts itself quite often the more you study it.

Anyway, there will always be the ignorant, the whimsical, and the mentally/emotionally needy, so I doubt religion will ever go away. It will probably change forms many times and hopefully might end up on the backburner of society's cares. As stated earlier, the more science discovers, the less there is for religion to explain, so we might get to the point where we can eradict its "need" by many in the population.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Crono
To all those who put their faith in science: How can you put your faith in something that is always changing? And even if science could be perfected and complete (which it can't), you or I will never live long enough to see it become so.

I have faith that science will one day figure out how to extend human life greatly, if not achieve immortality through cloning and memory transfer. Probably sounds like sci-fi to you, but I wouldn't be surprised if we're close to it by the end of the century.

 

[Luthien]

no

 

[tickyour]

Originally posted by: irishScott
IE: Let's say we finally figure out EXACTLY how the brain works... and there is no sign of a "soul". Then what?

This could never be achieved. Please read Principles of Human Knowledge by George Berkeley for a reasonable explanation why.