Unfortunately, you haven't offered a way for me to "find the truth". Keep in mind there are plenty of religions out there, and no one has explained why I, a logical person with no belief as of this moment, should begin to believe. What makes your truth better than that of Islam, Judaism, etc.? And how could I possibly accept a savior in whom I don't believe? It would be like accepting the tooth fairy as my personal savior.
Unfortunately, you haven't offered a way for me to "find the truth". Keep in mind there are plenty of religions out there, and no one has explained why I, a logical person with no belief as of this moment, should begin to believe. What makes your truth better than that of Islam, Judaism, etc.? And how could I possibly accept a savior in whom I don't believe? It would be like accepting the tooth fairy as my personal savior.
There is no benefit if you do not believe. The only prayer of an unsaved person that God will hear is "Lord, please save me", and He will hear that prayer only if you pray so with a broken and genuine heart, with sincerity and humility. Prayer isn't a hotline to a magic genie who will grant you wishes, it is a means of intimate communication between God and His children (those who He has saved who have the Holy Spirit within them). If you are living in rebellion against God, and you are if you have not repented of sin and received salvation, why should or would He heed your prayer? First you must be saved, then you can speak to God in the intimate fashion that is prayer, but even then you don't have the audacity to ask for selfish things ("God, give me some money this month so I can pay my rent! Give me a new car!"). Just like a good father won't give his child everything he/she asks for, so the heavenly Father won't give His child everything he/she asks for, but that which is good. Making petitions of God is not the main focus of prayer, anyways. The main focus should be on praising God for who He is, thanking God for what He has done and continues to do, and asking that your will may be conformed to His, because He knows what is best, and His will and plan are perfect and beyond human knowledge ("His thoughts are greater than our thoughts, and His ways are greater than our ways").
It can't serve as proof, unless you believe. To those who believe, the Word is Truth, and it serves as a testimony to what God has said. In those who are willing to relinquish selfish pride, and have their "eyes and ears" of the heart open to receive the Word of God, the Word can bring a person to the point of salvation. Perhaps that is tealk's hope; it is definitely mine
[/quote]
Those who reject God can be and will be judged, not for not believing, but for sin. God forgives sin by the gift of salvation, but if you are unwilling (out of your pride) to accept this gift, how can you be saved from sin? If you hear the truth, and choose not to believe it, you are responsible to God. You have no excuse. Every person knows in his/her heart that he/she is a sinner, and every person knows (because all of creation testifies to it, just as the Lord says) that there is a God. I can cover my eyes with my hand and say I don't believe in LCD screens, but that doesn't mean it's true; there is one right in front of my face, and whether I ignore it or not or deny it's existence, it's still there. The real reason people say "there is no God", or follow false gods, is that they do not want to be accountable to Him. People would rather try and "earn" salvation through works (but only God can save), or just "eat, drink, and be merry" for this short time that we call life, than come face to face with the reality that there is a God, the God of the Bible, and in the end He will judge each person according to his/her works. Those who He has saved will be with Him in paradise; and all those who have rejected Him will be cast out of the kingdom away from God, and will remain in the outer darkness for all eternity.
Logic is good, and indeed logic is from God. But when you pervert logic, and reject the need for faith in God, that is when you will run into serious trouble.[/quote]
I haven't rejected anything-- it just doesn't occur to me, a non-believer, that belief in god is necessary. It's not a rejection by logic, but a lack of faith. There's no way to have faith when you don't have it. I'm open to any logical argument as to why I should believe as you believe. It's good that you realize that prayer won't help a non-believer, which is absolutely true... so what will? I cannot accept a savior in whom I don't believe.
Can't argue with you if you dont open your heart up sincerly....it cannot be proven to you. You will never understand. You just awsnered your own question, and repeated what Crono said before.
Originally posted by: EXman
All Hail the Science IDOL!
The arrogance of man is limitless. Your decision not to argue about it shows the one thing that Gasbags such as Vic and 600sux don't have and that a lot of overeducated know-it-all types suffer with out is WISEDOM.
Yes, it is fair to say I have no WISEDOM.
Unless he's not, and it's not the truth... UnixFreak indicates a gut feeling, not an acknowledgement of something he knows is true.
I'd like to believe you, but most other religions say that yours is false. Who to believe, and why?
I agree wholeheartedly. Religiousness, as prevalent as it is in the US, is more prevalent in poorer countries. It also tends to be correlated with a lower level of education and/or income in general. This is NOT intended to be a slur or a statement about the truth of religions.
You are actually 100% wrong.....Christians as a whole in the US, make up the most Christians in the world. % of christians in the US. Also why we are blessed so much by God.
Is that aimed at me?
Because data on the Catholic Church alone indicates that world population of Catholics is more than double the entire US population. Unless you are about to claim that Catholics aren't Christian...I'm not arguing, just asking. My heart is open, sincerely. If God is real I want to believe. Right now, I don't. I didn't just answer my own questions, and I'm waiting for answers.
1) How can I possibly begin to believe in something without belief? For instance, how can I believe in a supernatural savior that seems to be fictional?
2) How can I accept a savior that seems to be fictional?
3) Why should I believe in the Christian religion instead of other ones, each of which claims to be the one true religion?
IT's more then jsut catholics, take into affect prodestant, baptist, lutheran, etc(Not Morman, or Jevovah Witenesses) Then you have the largest Christian community % wise is all the world.
6000sux...Im not going to answer you whe nit was asnwered previsouly...for the last time....read on page 20 on this thread..Crono explained it all. Good Day
The Word of God
The Bible, consisting of the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments, alone is the Word of God, fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and having supreme authority in all matters of faith and life.
The Trinity
There is One living and true God, eternally existing in three Persons. They are equal in every divine perfection and They execute distinct but harmonious offices in the work of creation, providence and redemption.
God the Father
God the Father is the infinite, eternal and almighty personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power and love, and is the first Person of the Trinity. He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of people, He hears and answers prayers, and He saves from sin and death all who come to Him in repentance and faith through Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and is the second Person of the Trinity. He was miraculously born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and performed miracles. We affirm His incarnation, teachings, substitutionary atoning death, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, perpetual intercession for His people, and His personal, visible return to earth. Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God the Father and humanity.
The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity and is sent from the Father and Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, and to regenerate, sanctify and empower all who believe in Jesus Christ. At the moment of salvation the Holy Spirit, as the abiding Helper, Teacher and Guide, indwells every believer in Christ and endows each believer with spiritual gifts for ministry to the family of God and the world.
Salvation
The central purpose of God's revelation in the Bible is to call all people into awareness of their sin, the availability of God's marvelous grace, and the need for repentance and faith that results in complete forgiveness and fellowship with God. All people are sinners by nature and by choice and are, therefore, under the judgment of God. Those who call on the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness, believe in His resurrection and receive Him as their Savior are granted salvation, forgiveness of their sin and are regenerated by the Holy Spirit into a new life in Christ. This act of salvation is based solely on the grace and mercy of God, and is not the result of human deeds or goodness.
Future Destiny
The Lord Jesus Christ will come again to earth, personally and visibly, to establish His kingdom and fulfill God's eternal plan for creation. Death seals the eternal destiny of each person. For each person, there will be a resurrection of the body, the final judgment before God, the eternal bliss in heaven for those who are in Christ Jesus, and the endless suffering in hell for those who have not received salvation.
The Bible, consisting of the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments, alone is the Word of God, fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and having supreme authority in all matters of faith and life.
The Trinity
There is One living and true God, eternally existing in three Persons. They are equal in every divine perfection and They execute distinct but harmonious offices in the work of creation, providence and redemption.
God the Father
God the Father is the infinite, eternal and almighty personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power and love, and is the first Person of the Trinity. He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of people, He hears and answers prayers, and He saves from sin and death all who come to Him in repentance and faith through Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and is the second Person of the Trinity. He was miraculously born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and performed miracles. We affirm His incarnation, teachings, substitutionary atoning death, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, perpetual intercession for His people, and His personal, visible return to earth. Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God the Father and humanity.
The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity and is sent from the Father and Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, and to regenerate, sanctify and empower all who believe in Jesus Christ. At the moment of salvation the Holy Spirit, as the abiding Helper, Teacher and Guide, indwells every believer in Christ and endows each believer with spiritual gifts for ministry to the family of God and the world.
Salvation
The central purpose of God's revelation in the Bible is to call all people into awareness of their sin, the availability of God's marvelous grace, and the need for repentance and faith that results in complete forgiveness and fellowship with God. All people are sinners by nature and by choice and are, therefore, under the judgment of God. Those who call on the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness, believe in His resurrection and receive Him as their Savior are granted salvation, forgiveness of their sin and are regenerated by the Holy Spirit into a new life in Christ. This act of salvation is based solely on the grace and mercy of God, and is not the result of human deeds or goodness.
Future Destiny
The Lord Jesus Christ will come again to earth, personally and visibly, to establish His kingdom and fulfill God's eternal plan for creation. Death seals the eternal destiny of each person. For each person, there will be a resurrection of the body, the final judgment before God, the eternal bliss in heaven for those who are in Christ Jesus, and the endless suffering in hell for those who have not received salvation.
No, no answers were given to my questions. You are evading answering my very simple and direct questions. You are leaving me without a basis for belief.
How can I believe this in the face of all the other religions saying their word is the one true word?
Am I supposed to just take your word for it? Again, why should a non-believer believe this? How could they? I'm not mocking, I really want to know.
You are just making conclusive statements. If I walked around believing everything I hear, I would just as soon join a cult.
Again, this text alone cannot be the basis of belief. Not mocking you, but you must realize this.
[/quote]
See above.
Maybe it would be helpful to put yourself in my shoes. From my perspective, for example, the Bible and the Book of Mormon have equal validity. What would make you-in-my-shoes choose your religion over Mormonism?
Wow, this thread has PROVEN the theory of evolution. Look at it's evolution:
6000SUX vs. Vic
6000SUX vs. BigJ
6000SUX vs. tealk
I think there may have even been a 6000SUX vs. Crono in there somewhere too.
I wonder where the next evolutionary step will bring us to?
6000SUX vs. Vic
6000SUX vs. BigJ
6000SUX vs. tealk
I think there may have even been a 6000SUX vs. Crono in there somewhere too.
I wonder where the next evolutionary step will bring us to?
:laugh:
Considering the name that 'Christianity' has developed for itself, I'll take that as a compliment. And I'll tell ya, being misguided never felt so good!
Mormon.
EDIT: If you have question or comments about that though, please keep them to private messages as this topic is way off.
EDIT: If you have question or comments about that though, please keep them to private messages as this topic is way off.
That's just your opinion. I would get off that arrogant high horse you're on, thinking that your faith is correct and above and beyond all others. As 6000SUX was trying to ask, why should we believe your faith above all others?
My wife thinks like you, and I tell her it's because she was brainwashed from the beginning, as a child, to believe literally the information written in the Bible. When that type of person becomes an adult, it becomes very hard to let go of that teaching. Remember when we were told that Santa Clause didn't exist - it hurt!!
I'm sorry you were brainwashed as a child. I on the other hand did not grow up in a religious environment, and so for a person like me to be told as an adult that Christianity and Jesus is the truth is very difficult to swallow. Now if that information had been stuffed down my throat from the day I was born, then maybe I would believe it like you.
3NF 1:1 "All life on this planet was genetically engineered by aliens"
3NF 1:2 "Goto 1:1"
I have no comment to Scientology, you, your religion about aliens, are self suffient in what you are. No additional comment needed here. Good luck on Mars!
Good luck on Mars!Some would probably prefer to label this "survival of the dumbest" or at least "survival of the stubbornest". Incidentally, a positive comment on your religion: I noticed that Mormons are considered an exception to the negative correlation between education and religiosity.
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