Will Iran Deter an Israeli Attack?

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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As I mentioned in the ongoing thread covering the Israeli interception of a Turkish sponsored, Gaza Strip bound, mixed cargo of peaceniks and jihadist sympathizer/activist convoy, that effort is but a feint, one of many, to divert and deter Israel from striking Iran's nuclear weapons development facilities.

Through the use of proxies such as Hamas and Hizbollah, the Iranians are buying time to complete at least two nuclear weapons, using the highly enriched uranium that the IAEA has now confirmed they have.

The world's intelligence agencies and national and international governmental agencies in public releases have expressed maximum concern at the progress the Iranians have claimed they are making toward a viable nuclear end game.

By all accounts, time is running short.

Israel is the only nation that has the will to stop the Iranian nuclear weapons program, but they may lack the logistic means to execute a fully effective attack. And their nominal allies, including the U.S., are drifting in a wind set in motion by Iranian threats and diversions.

Have the Iranians done enough to stop an Israeli attack against their mortal enemy?

Will Iran Deter an Israeli Attack?

By Jed Babbin
June 2, 2010
RealClearPolitics

Monday's Israeli action against the convoy bringing pro-Palestinian activists to Gaza evidences the Jewish state's determination to defuse threats against it, the greatest of which is the Iranian nuclear weapons program.

Because Iran understands this, it has for months been building up the missile arsenal of its proxy in neighboring Lebanon, the terrorist organization Hizballah, in an attempt to deter an Israeli attack.

From Tehran's standpoint, its greatest need is time.

Scientific success is inevitable given enough time, and to achieve that goal Tehran must avoid any effective international sanctions that could possibly stop its nuclear program. And it must also deter military action against the nuclear facilities which could delay or destroy its program.

The ayatollahs are masters of diplomatic avoidance. They have been misleading the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency - the supposed international watchdog of nuclear proliferation - for decades. Under Mohammed el-Baradei, the IAEA was Iran's chief apologist until last February when the IAEA confirmed that Iran had "past or current undisclosed activities" to develop a nuclear warhead. For eight years, President Bush threatened Iran with isolation but took no action - diplomatically or otherwise -that affected the Iranians' pursuit of nuclear power.

President Obama has apparently abandoned any thought of effective diplomatic action. In last weekend's UN Non-proliferation Treaty Review Conference, the United States endorsed a 188-nation agreement which called upon Israel to join the NPT and open its nuclear facilities to international inspection, but failed to even mention Iran.

The Iranians continue to thumb their noses at the UN and the United States, and to threaten Israel with annihilation. Since the ayatollahs took power in 1979, there has been no diplomatic negotiation that has changed their behavior or reduced their aggressiveness. Deterrence will not work against them. But it can work for them.

The remaining question is whether Iran can deter Israel from making a military strike against its nuclear facilities that would delay indefinitely Iran's achievement of nuclear weapons.

Cold War deterrence worked not only by dissuading both sides from a nuclear "first strike" but also by establishing a nuclear war threshold limiting both sides' actions. The U.S. sought to contain Soviet expansion, and the Soviet Union, in turn, wanted to deter the U.S. from interfering with its conventional and unconventional effort to expand its empire.

There was a short but steep learning curve. Both nations learned how easy it was to reach that threshold in the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. There hasn't been an equivalent crisis in the Middle East, so the main players have not learned those lessons.

Iran's experience with Israel is in provocation, not deterrence. Hizballah was created by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in Lebanon in 1982. Hizballah is Khomeneist in doctrine and is supported financially and militarily by both Iran and Syria. And Hizballah has served as their proxy in provoking Israel to take military action.

The Israelis were provoked into invading Lebanon in 2006 by a series of Hizballah rocket attacks and kidnappings of Israeli soldiers. Hizballah suffered considerable losses in the conflict but Israel under Prime Minister Ehud Olmert made so many mistakes and was so roundly condemned in the international media that many even in the Israeli government came to believe Israel had lost the war.

The situation today is very different. Hizballah -- rebuilt, re-embedded in Lebanon and rearmed - didn't suffer lasting harm. It is now reportedly being equipped with Scud missiles which bring all of Israel within range. These missiles are apparently being shipped into Lebanon with the help of the Syrian government and based in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley.

If Israel attacks Iran's nuclear facilities, those missiles will be fired at every Israeli population center. Even without the chemical munitions both Iran and Syria are believed to have, the missiles could cause thousands of Israeli deaths.

In Israel, too, the situation is different. Ehud Olmert, unusual among Israeli leaders, had not served in combat. Benjamin Netanyahu has considerable personal experience in combat. That doesn't mean he will or won't attack Iran despite the Hizballah deterrent force. But it does mean that he will do a better job of balancing the risks and deciding how and whether to attack Iran.

From Tehran's standpoint, then, the strategy is to increase the risk to Israel's civilian population to a point where Netanyahu cannot risk an all-out Hizballah missile attack. Iran's objective, however, is to do that without making Hizballah's new missile force so great a threat that it will compel Israel to attack into Lebanon with greater precision and force than it did in 2006.

This is the delicate sort of balance of power - or balance of terror - which America and the Soviet Union maintained for almost a half-century. Maintaining that fragile a balance among Iran, Syria, Hizballah and Israel is unlikely. It is made more so by the widening breach between Israel and the United States.

But it can be done. If Hizballah is able to assemble a large enough missile force to threaten Israel's population and hide it from Israeli intelligence well enough to make a preemptive strike against it unlikely to succeed, Netanyahu's government will likely be deterred against striking at Iran, at least temporarily. And Iran may be able to buy the time it needs to achieve its nuclear weapons ambition.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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Iran has a stockpile of anti-queer missiles. No western air-force has a chance.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Through the use of proxies such as Hamas and Hizbollah, the Iranians are buying time to complete at least two nuclear weapons, using the highly enriched uranium that the IAEA has now confirmed they have.

Highly enriched uranium... Source, please... good luck finding a credible one...

Israel can't attack other than across American controlled airspace, and not even the Bush Admin was stupid enough to let 'em... Nor do the Israelis have the capacity to sustain their efforts in the long run w/o American assistance.

Rotsa Ruck, Ziocon Ravers.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Highly enriched uranium... Source, please... good luck finding a credible one...

Israel can't attack other than across American controlled airspace, and not even the Bush Admin was stupid enough to let 'em... Nor do the Israelis have the capacity to sustain their efforts in the long run w/o American assistance.

Rotsa Ruck, Ziocon Ravers.

Nice diatribe....lets be real blunt..when the time comes israel will not be asking permission to cross other countries airspace...they will just do it!!

You know jack shit about what Israel is capable to do and you know nothying concerning what israel will do with or without the help of the US!!
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
613
0
0
Israel has long said it would use tactical nukes vs Iran nuke sites. I think parts of the ME are about to be turned into glass.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
I dare anyone to test it

Russia has sold them NUKES long ago

Israel has had nukes for 50 years... every day telling the whole world to go fuck itself and then wondering why nobody fucking cares about them
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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Highly enriched uranium... Source, please... good luck finding a credible one...

Rotsa Ruck, Ziocon Ravers.

Do you trust the IAEA?

IAEA report reduces chances of Iran fuel swap deal

By GEORGE JAHN (AP) – Monday, June 1, 2010

VIENNA — Iran has amassed more than two tons of enriched uranium, the U.N. atomic agency said Monday in a report that heightened Western concerns about the country developing the ability to produce a nuclear weapon.

Two tons of uranium would be enough for two nuclear warheads, although Iran says it does not want weapons and is only pursuing civilian nuclear energy.

The U.S. and the four other permanent U.N. Security Council members — Russia, China, Britain and France — have tentatively backed a draft fourth set of U.N. sanctions against Iran over its refusal to stop enriching uranium.

Separately, the International Atomic Energy Agency — the U.N. nuclear watchdog — said Syria continues to stonewall agency reports to follow up on U.S. assertions that a facility destroyed three years ago by Israeli warplanes was a secretly built reactor meant to produce plutonium.

"Syria has not cooperated with the agency since June 2008" on most aspects of its investigation, according to the IAEA's Syria report. But it noted that Syria has admitted to small-scale nuclear experiments that it had previously not owned up to.

Syria denies allegations it was being helped by Iran and North Korea in developing a covert program.

But diplomats familiar with the Syria probe told The Associated Press of a visit to Syria in January by a high-ranking Iranian nuclear delegation led by Mahdi Kaniki, a deputy to Ali Akhbar Salehi, an Iranian deputy president and head of his country's nuclear program. The two diplomats asked for anonymity because their information was confidential.

For seven months, Iran refused to accept a deal brokered by the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency that foresaw Iran exporting 2,640 pounds (1,200 kilograms) of low-enriched uranium to Russia and France to be turned into fuel for Tehran's research reactor.

The West backed that offer because it would have committed Iran to exporting most of the enriched uranium it had produced and left it with less than the 2,200 pounds (1,000 kilograms) of material needed to produce enough weapons-grade uranium for a bomb.

Iran rejected the offer then but now says it is ready to ship out the same amount of material and has enlisted the backing of Turkey and Brazil in trying to reach a compromise and derail the new sanctions push.

Iran insists it has no interest in nuclear weapons. But its refusal to stop enrichment — which can create both nuclear fuel and warhead material — and its stonewalling of IAEA efforts to investigate suspicions it is interested in developing such arms have increased international worry.

The restricted International Atomic Energy Agency report said that the IAEA "remains concerned about the possible existence in Iran of past or current undisclosed nuclear related activities, involving military related organizations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile."

On enrichment, the report made available to the AP shortly after release to the U.N. Security Council and the IAEA's 35-nation board said Iran had now enriched 2,427 kilograms to just over three percent level.

That means shipping out 2,640 pounds (1,200 kilograms) now would still leave Iran with more than enough material to make a nuclear weapon. That makes the deal unattractive to the U.S and its allies.

The report confirmed that Iran continues a separate program of small-scale enrichment of uranium, using 3.5 percent feedstock and enriching to near 20 percent — another hurdle for the West. Iran could produce weapons grade uranium much more quickly from the 20 percent level, making the separate program another hurdle to any fuel swap deal.

The U.S. and its allies view Tehran's insistence on continuing higher enrichment even as it offers to accept the swap deal with suspicion since it originally said it had to enrich to 20 percent as the first step in making fuel for the Tehran research reactor.

The IAEA also said that equipment had been removed from a laboratory it was investigating, confirming a report last week to the AP from diplomats familiar with the issue.

At issue is pyroprocessing, a procedure that can be used to purify uranium metal used in nuclear warheads.

In January, Iran told the agency that it had carried out pyroprocessing experiments, prompting a request from the nuclear agency for more information — but then backtracked in March and denied conducting such activities.

IAEA experts last month revisited the site — the Jabr Ibn Jayan Multipurpose Research Laboratory in Tehran — only to establish "that the electrochemical cell had been removed" from the unit used in the experiments, said the report.
 
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Rebel44

Senior member
Jun 19, 2006
742
1
76
I dare anyone to test it

Russia has sold them NUKES long ago

Israel has had nukes for 50 years... every day telling the whole world to go fuck itself and then wondering why nobody fucking cares about them

BS. Russia didnt sell nukes to anyone and Israel have them for "only" 35-40 years.

Next time you post make sure you arent posting nonsense.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Highly enriched uranium... Source, please... good luck finding a credible one...

Israel can't attack other than across American controlled airspace, and not even the Bush Admin was stupid enough to let 'em... Nor do the Israelis have the capacity to sustain their efforts in the long run w/o American assistance.

Rotsa Ruck, Ziocon Ravers.

Yellow cake baby!
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Quote: Originally Posted by dahunan View Post I dare anyone to test it Russia has sold them NUKES long ago Israel has had nukes for 50 years... every day telling the whole world to go fuck itself and then wondering why nobody fucking cares about them BS. Russia didnt sell nukes to anyone and Israel have them for "only" 35-40 years. Next time you post make sure you arent posting nonsense.

35-40 w/e -- one day is all that matters... dishonest heathens ;)
do you have proof Russia or Soviet Union or Putin or KGB or **maybe Pakistan have not sold or delivered weapons or weapons grade uranium to Iran?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
35-40 w/e -- one day is all that matters... dishonest heathens ;)
do you have proof Russia or Soviet Union or Putin or KGB or **maybe Pakistan have not sold or delivered weapons or weapons grade uranium to Iran?

YES there is proof that has not happened yet!
We have means of detecting such things via satelites and other means.

You have to a complete idiot if you think Russia is going to supply Iran with weapons grade anything....lololol
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Israel if they feel threatened is more than capable of taking out any Iranian sites using conventional weapons. I forget the link but they did a study in 2008 about the chances of success for Israel to attack Iranian sites . The outcome was that Israel can destroy any site in Iran using just their air force and conventional weapons. Iranian air force is outdated Vietnam era jets that they haven't been able to get parts for and many are scrapped. We supplied a good portion of the Israeli air force and their hardware is up to date. The only problem with the plan was that it would not be possible to pull it off without Iran knowing the attack was coming. Israel would have to move some thing around for refueling that would tip Iran off making losses higher, but it is still doable.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
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Israel has long said it would use tactical nukes vs Iran nuke sites. I think parts of the ME are about to be turned into glass.

I am very excited too. I believe Jesus is going to ride one of the nukes down. I just can't wait.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
6,721
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As I mentioned in the ongoing thread covering the Israeli interception of a Turkish sponsored, Gaza Strip bound, mixed cargo of peaceniks and jihadist sympathizer/activist convoy, that effort is but a feint, one of many, to divert and deter Israel from striking Iran's nuclear weapons development facilities.

Through the use of proxies such as Hamas and Hizbollah, the Iranians are buying time to complete at least two nuclear weapons, using the highly enriched uranium that the IAEA has now confirmed they have.

The world's intelligence agencies and national and international governmental agencies in public releases have expressed maximum concern at the progress the Iranians have claimed they are making toward a viable nuclear end game.

By all accounts, time is running short.

Israel is the only nation that has the will to stop the Iranian nuclear weapons program, but they may lack the logistic means to execute a fully effective attack. And their nominal allies, including the U.S., are drifting in a wind set in motion by Iranian threats and diversions.

Have the Iranians done enough to stop an Israeli attack against their mortal enemy?

This is an if fest. Remember that how one sees the future is subject unconscious motivation. We see in the ifs of others what biases they hide, but the fact is that nobody knows the future and the if game is a form of masturbation. You should be too old for that if sadly, you're not too to accept no imitation.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
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On the one hand, any rational person realizes that having nukes in the hands of the nutjobs in Tehran is a very bad idea. On the flip side, allowing the Israeli's to have nukes in the area and telling everyone else that they are not allowed to is hypocritical. There's even been discussion of israel using tactical nukes to take out Iranian sites. Now if that doesn't scream hypocrisy I don't know what does "you're evil, if you get nukes you will use them against me. Therefore, I'm going to preemptively nuke you".

Bottom line, Iran is going to have nukes at some point no matter what. I'm sure the lessons from prior air strikes to destroy nuke facilities in Iraq and Syria have not gone lost on the Iranians, and they've hidden/fortified enough locations that they could continue building toward the nuke absent an all-out war.

Also, all the bluster and threats from Israel accomplish is to validate the paranoid view of the world held in Tehran.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Again this shouldn't be perceived as a problem exclusive to Israel because, well, it is not. Many people - first and foremost the Iranian public who oppose the Mullah dictatorship - are set to lose from such a move.

I'm not sure Iran will pursue a full nuclear weapon, although it's difficult to predict them. The problem is that after they go nuclear, the rest of the ME (Sunnis and Whahbis) will follow to deter them, most notably Saudi Arabia and Egypt who fear for their status and interests in the face of a nuclear Iran, and obviously the Gulf states that are shaking.

Israel is only a small part of the equation; it is defended well enough and armed well enough not to be worried of a direct nuclear attack, I think the main concern of the Israeli establishment is an exponential growth in the Iranian political power and sphere of influence. Don't forget it's Iran who wages a proxy war, through Hizballah and later through Hamas, on Israel for 20 years now, without any direct Israeli response.

And to my knowledge, Israel has never officially mentioned any intents to use tactical nukes or other nukes of any kind, as this will violate its sacred nuclear ambiguity. Give a reference if you have one.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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This whole contention of Israel making a preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear sites has been somewhat discussed to death on this forum. But in all those threads I have never before seen the following from SamurAchur, "
And to my knowledge, Israel has never officially mentioned any intents to use tactical nukes or other nukes of any kind, as this will violate its sacred nuclear ambiguity."

What makes my hair almost stand on end is the use of word the SACRED when applied to Israeli nuclear weapons, at exactly a time when the pressure is on to make the entire mid-east a nuclear weapons free zone.

But since the last thread this forum has had on a possible Israeli preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear sites, two new elements have been added.

1. The threat of Israel using submarines to deliver cruse missiles from inside the Persian gulf. And a side question becomes, how does Israel get a sub from the Mediterranean sea to the Persian Gulf? Such a sub may not be allowed free passage through the Suez canal.

2. Israel can now absolutely forget about using any route that overflies Turkey. That and the fact that Turkey may use its air force to defend Iran from such Israeli raids.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Your second wall o' text, PJABBER, in no way confirms your assertion that the IAEA has confirmed Iranian possession of HEU in anything more than experimental quantities, basic feasibility studies. The actual quantities created are minute, utterly incapable of making bombs. The IAEA is monitoring production, as they're supposed to do.

But, rave on.

Israeli capabilities? Nukes? Sounds like a lot of chipmunk chest thumping, to me. US support would evaporate in the event of pre-emptive nuclear attack by the Israelis, and their airforce won't stay in the sky w/o Uncle Sam's spare parts... reference the Iranian airforce after the fall of the Shah...
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
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35-40 w/e -- one day is all that matters... dishonest heathens ;)
do you have proof Russia or Soviet Union or Putin or KGB or **maybe Pakistan have not sold or delivered weapons or weapons grade uranium to Iran?



Who cares if they did? It might even be better if they did than Israel can be justified in a first strike scenario and hopefully eradicate the evil that is Iran and the savages that live there.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Your second wall o' text, PJABBER, in no way confirms your assertion that the IAEA has confirmed Iranian possession of HEU in anything more than experimental quantities, basic feasibility studies. The actual quantities created are minute, utterly incapable of making bombs. The IAEA is monitoring production, as they're supposed to do.

I am not the one saying that the Iranians can produce two nuclear weapons with the amount of enriched uranium they now have, the IAEA is. They presented this conclusion to the UN on Monday.

For some reason you doubt their conclusion, having read their report. Or have you? You wouldn't contradict something that important without having read the source document, would you?

Are you in denial because you have solid information to the contrary, please link if you do, or maybe you are a nuclear weapons designer that believes the Iranians can't build nuclear weapons with the at least two tons of enriched uranium the IAEA reports they have produced thus far?