I know mathematically he should do it, as he has 6 games left or something and only needs 6 hits, but i've heard a lot of people talk like he's already broken the record. It doesn't really make sense to walk the guy since he's a singles hitter and then the pitcher would look like a total coward, but then again there's going to be a lot of pressure as a Japanese player breaks one of the oldest baseball records (80+ years).
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Will Ichiro do it?
- Thread starter PoPPeR
- Start date
NYHoustonman
Platinum Member
Yes. It really is almost automatic at this point, barring a major slump.
chuckywang
Lifer
Don't insult Ichiro by throwing grapefruits. Make him earn it, and when he does, it'll be a lot more fulfilling.
Yep, i saw him hit a couple last home game, gonna see them when they get back in town....
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
No, for a guy with such a high average he walks VERY rarely. Something like 50 or so for the season in 700 trips to the plate.
He's got 251 hits in 153 games and needs 6 hits in 6 games. He should do it easily, but a 3 game slump could make it dicey. Then again he could go 5-5 next game and make it a cakewalk.
RabidMongoose
Lifer
I think that it's a valid argument. These records should be looked at by looking at the time period.
Are you prepared to say that Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, etc. records and performances are not as impressive?
SP33Demon
Lifer
It's comparing apples to oranges. Ichiro smashed the modern record since the advent of the closer and bullpen with 242 hits in 2001 (Wade Boggs had the record at 240 in 1985), and now Ichiro has smashed his own record. For Scully to even compare an era where hitters were regularily hitting over .400 easily (Ty Cobb) is absurd, pitching is 10X as tough today, everyone knows that. Take away Middle Relievers and closers, and make starters pitch the whole game. I'll bet you $10,000 that Ichiro smashes Sisler's record in 154 games. The mistake is with the comparison of the era to begin with, so no it's not a "valid argument".
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
Update: Ichiro got 2 hits on Tuesday night and stands at 254. He needs 3 hits to tie, 4 hits to break the record and has 5 games left. In his last 8 games he's hitting close to .500, something like 18 for 37. It's one of the of the greatest charges towards a record in sports history. If he was an American and playing for a major market team the guy would be on the cover of every magazine in the country.
I think your numbers and information are a bit wack. I wouldn't consider Ichiro "smashing" a record by getting 2 more hits than Boggs.
Also the whole "during an era when hitters were regularily hitting over .400". There have only been 35 hitters in major league history to hit .400. Factoring in that several of them are the same people doing it multiple times, i wouldn't say hitting .400 was ever a "regular" thing. It's a special number.
Also saying that pitching is 10x as tough today, well could be true, but you also have to consider that pitching skill level is down because of the number of baseball teams and the lack of top talent you'd face every night. Pitchers also used to get 25+ win seasons. The league ERA has gone up considerably since that era. Also considering hitters are stronger, quicker, and trained unlike they did in those era. It's almost a wash.
.400 Hitters
20 game winners 1973-2003
20 game winners 1902 - 1925
Look at the difference in 20 game winners in these eras.
Ichiro is great and what he's doing is awesome, but don't knock a guy who did it originally.
SP33Demon
Lifer
First off, Boggs had 240 hits in 1985, which was phenomenal. So for a guy to come in who was in his first rookie American season (had never hit American pitching) and breaking that record, yes it is referred to as smashing it. Now for Ichiro to be beating his own record by 11 (at the moment) is even more phenomenal.
Let's get some facts straight first. Sisler's era was from 1916 - 1930. He never batted over .400 during the dead ball era (1916-1919). Out of your "list" of 35 .400 hitters, 22 of them are from the 1800's. Another EIGHT (almost 25%) are from Sisler's era (1916-1930), and the other five did it from either 1900-1915 or 1931-1941. If you excluded the hitters from the 1800's, and took the percentage (8 out of 13) for the 20th century, then the 8 that did it during Sisler's era is 61.5%, then my point is proven that yes, .400 was common in Sisler's time and pitchers were easier to hit.
From 1920 - 1930 (the two times that Sisler hit over .400 and set hit record), you are wrong, the league ERA was higher than today's modern ERA. You're comparing the Deadball Era (up to 1919, you said "1902-1925") where Sisler didn't even SET THE RECORD! He did it AFTER the Deadball Era in 1920, so compare pitching from 1920-1930 to today's pitcher, like I said, when the league ERA was higher than today.
Furthermore, each league had EIGHT teams apiece, meaning they were very familiar with each other and played each other about 20 times a year. No international or black players could play, it was almost an exclusive "White Men's Club". But don't just take it from me.
Finally, your listed stats of 20 game winners is hilarious. The pitchers from the Dead Ball Era and post dead ball averaged almost THIRTY complete games a year. Today, the modern pitcher averages 2.3! If you extrapolate how many games started each pitcher has made, the truth is clear, most modern day pitchers don't start enough games to have a shot at 20 wins, 20 wins was commonplace as you have proven back in the day. Most of your stats of 20 game winners came from the Dead Ball era (again, up to 1919 when Sisler did not do anything), of course pitching was more dominant in that era vs today. To reiterate, make a valid comparison of 1920-1930 (Sisler's era) to today's pitching, you will see how horrendous it was.
This is not to take anything away from the guys who hit .400 and accumulated lots of hits, just don't bash Ichiro until you have all the facts. Like I said, make starting pitchers pitch the whole game, and I'll bet you 10 Grand that Ichiro would beat Sisler's 154 game record.
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