Will F-22 Raptor beat this?

[LeadMagnet]

That has a large radar signature - it's also considered a small light weight fighter, a different class and role than the larger more expensive F/A 22

It looks like the old American F4 Phantom

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
More vids:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evdbpH4B81A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BksVu5ng1Zw
Read the comments for this clip. F22 vs. JAS 39.
Is the F22 designed to use normal roads for take off and landing? I think not.

Airfield in teh forrest

lol, those idiots are so obviously biased, the Gripen fulfills a completely different role than the F-22. It is quite clear that the JSF is more in line with the Gripen (with versions of the JSF able to take off on short run ways or even vertically) - of which the F-22 would destroy either fighter 1 on 1 or even outnumbered.

I know. They are sales videos.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
More vids:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evdbpH4B81A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BksVu5ng1Zw
Read the comments for this clip. F22 vs. JAS 39.
Is the F22 designed to use normal roads for take off and landing? I think not.

Airfield in teh forrest

lol, those idiots are so obviously biased, the Gripen fulfills a completely different role than the F-22. It is quite clear that the JSF is more in line with the Gripen (with versions of the JSF able to take off on short run ways or even vertically) - of which the F-22 would destroy either fighter 1 on 1 or even outnumbered.

The JSF is not 'reality' yet, as in deployed and under full production.

I agree the F22 and JAS39 are not really comparable but unfortunately this thread is a 'JAS 39 vs. F22' thread and the F22 does not have VTOL capability.

I can't find any good data on maneuverability (G loads, turning radius, rate of climb) and so on) to compare. Probably classified info.
Both are Mach 2 capable planes (the F22 even at lower altitude, JAS39 reaches Mach 1.75 at lower altitude).

 

[GRIFFIN1]

If they would have had this 60 years ago, then they just might have been able to stop the Luftwaffe.

 

[Savij]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
More vids:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evdbpH4B81A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BksVu5ng1Zw
Read the comments for this clip. F22 vs. JAS 39.
Is the F22 designed to use normal roads for take off and landing? I think not.

Airfield in teh forrest

lol, those idiots are so obviously biased, the Gripen fulfills a completely different role than the F-22. It is quite clear that the JSF is more in line with the Gripen (with versions of the JSF able to take off on short run ways or even vertically) - of which the F-22 would destroy either fighter 1 on 1 or even outnumbered.

The JSF is not 'reality' yet, as in deployed and under full production.

I agree the F22 and JAS39 are not really comparable but unfortunately this thread is a 'JAS 39 vs. F22' thread and the F22 does not have VTOL capability.

I can't find any good data on maneuverability (G loads, turning radius, rate of climb) and so on) to compare. Probably classified info.
Both are Mach 2 capable planes (the F22 even at lower altitude, JAS39 reaches Mach 1.75 at lower altitude).

IIRC the F22 is limited to 9Gs for pilot survivability.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Su > all



Well, maybe not, but still amazing videos

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2002313961490667235&q=su+37

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=47+berkut

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: SophalotJack

Originally posted by: IHAVEAQUESTION

Originally posted by: SophalotJack
probably one of the worst videos I have seen.

not informative, took half the clip just to get the plane in the air... mostly because of the ghey pilot slow walking to the plane.

Even if it is better than a raptor, that video had zero way of showing it. It was all cinema and gay french movie making.



Furthermore, isn't it unpatriotic and considered treason to "think" that anything else in the world is better than something in our military? lol.

Take a look at 2nd video link, much more informative.

Nice, didn't even notice the second link.

Well if it is just as capable as the raptor and more diverse with a lower pricetag.... then it is worth way more than the raptor.

I personally think the raptor is a bloated waste of money in which our military will never see a return on their investment... just like many other programs we have.

The griffen seems to be a much more practical and efficient aircraft for the modern battlefield.

Agreed. The US should've pulled the plug on the F-22 project long ago. And I'm sure the so called "combat excercises" where the f22 got a 108-0 kill ratio against f-15s and su's were rigged.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
Agreed. The US should've pulled the plug on the F-22 project long ago. And I'm sure the so called "combat excercises" where the f22 got a 108-0 kill ratio against f-15s and su's were rigged.

They're not so much rigged as they are inherently unfair. The F22 has such a range advantage over those planes that it can shoot them down before they even know the F22 is there. You could write it up as 1,000,000-0, but it's kind of pointless; sort of like saying that putting an F15 against propeller planes would have a 108-0 kill ratio if supplied with enough ammo.

 

[MBrown]

The F-22 would completely own. Learn something.

Not a chance.

 

[DarkKnight69]

The Typhoon will be a closer match to the F-22. It is regarded as many as a better air-to-air fighter then the f-22 but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: MBrown
The F-22 would completely own. Learn something.

Not a chance.

It probably will own, but very poor choice of videos, all they show is that F22 can fly in a straight line

 

[spikespiegal]

but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

No, it would be shot down due to the American AWACS plane vectoring in the Raptors, just like pretty much every other modern fighter kill by the USAF.

FYI - the stealth technology of the F-22 doesn't make the plane invisible, as the Bosnian Defense Force demonstrated when they shot down a F-117 with a crude ground-to-air missle.

Otherwise, I wasn't aware the U.S. was at war with Western European Countries to make such a scenario imaginable, and given the F-22 isn't likely to compete with export versions of the Swedish fighter either. Both are a waste of taxpayer dollars given all it takes is 19 guys and box cutter knives to inflict more civilian casualities. Excatly how would the F22 have prevented that may I ask?

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
The Typhoon will be a closer match to the F-22. It is regarded as many as a better air-to-air fighter then the f-22 but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

Ignoring the unsupported declaratory statement, doesn't the fact that the Raptor would shoot down the Typhoon mean it's the better air-to-air fighter? Just curious.

The griffen seems to be a much more practical and efficient aircraft for the modern battlefield.

For those who cannot afford something like the F/A-22 or even the Eurofighter. The Swedes provide a decent, low cost alternative to US fighters and an alternative to buying from the Russians or the Chinese at a higher cost. Sure, it'll work, but it will die against the Raptor or probably even against the Su-30MK series. Given that fact, which would you rather fly?

Also, no one here knows the full capabilities of the Raptor, and there's no discussion of the power of the AESA radar onboard, especially compared to the current mechanically scanned array of the Gripen. If you don't think that matters, then you should just not bother to post in this thread.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
The Typhoon will be a closer match to the F-22. It is regarded as many as a better air-to-air fighter then the f-22 but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

Ignoring the unsupported declaratory statement, doesn't the fact that the Raptor would shoot down the Typhoon mean it's the better air-to-air fighter? Just curious.

The griffen seems to be a much more practical and efficient aircraft for the modern battlefield.

For those who cannot afford something like the F/A-22 or even the Eurofighter. The Swedes provide a decent, low cost alternative to US fighters and an alternative to buying from the Russians or the Chinese at a higher cost. Sure, it'll work, but it will die against the Raptor or probably even against the Su-30MK series. Given that fact, which would you rather fly?

Also, no one here knows the full capabilities of the Raptor, and there's no discussion of the power of the AESA radar onboard, especially compared to the current mechanically scanned array of the Gripen. If you don't think that matters, then you should just not bother to post in this thread.

I could get to jail for saying this but working at Ericsson Microwave in the late 90's (they make the radar system for the Griffin) I saw they had a phased array radar system under development, which means electronically controlled scanning and not mechanical.

Anyway, this thread is pretty stupid. Apples vs Oranges.......

 

[RallyMaster]

F-22 will curb stomp that thing.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
The Typhoon will be a closer match to the F-22. It is regarded as many as a better air-to-air fighter then the f-22 but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

Ignoring the unsupported declaratory statement, doesn't the fact that the Raptor would shoot down the Typhoon mean it's the better air-to-air fighter? Just curious.

The griffen seems to be a much more practical and efficient aircraft for the modern battlefield.

For those who cannot afford something like the F/A-22 or even the Eurofighter. The Swedes provide a decent, low cost alternative to US fighters and an alternative to buying from the Russians or the Chinese at a higher cost. Sure, it'll work, but it will die against the Raptor or probably even against the Su-30MK series. Given that fact, which would you rather fly?

Also, no one here knows the full capabilities of the Raptor, and there's no discussion of the power of the AESA radar onboard, especially compared to the current mechanically scanned array of the Gripen. If you don't think that matters, then you should just not bother to post in this thread.

I could get to jail for saying this but working at Ericsson Microwave in the late 90's (they make the radar system for the Griffin) I saw they had a phased array radar system under development, which means electronically controlled scanning and not mechanical.

Anyway, this thread is pretty stupid. Apples vs Oranges.......

There are a lot of things in development, including directed energy weapons and electromagnetic railguns. The F-22 is operational right now. Apparently, Saab plans to upgrade the Gripen radar to AESA with a target date of 2012, but I'm guessing that's a little optomistic because that's including a radar upgrade in between which hasn't taken place yet (the Mk 4 version).

Incidentally, phased array doesn't always mean Active Electronically Scanned Array -- there are passive versions. I'm still learning EW stuff so I can't go into much beyond that.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
The Typhoon will be a closer match to the F-22. It is regarded as many as a better air-to-air fighter then the f-22 but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

Ignoring the unsupported declaratory statement, doesn't the fact that the Raptor would shoot down the Typhoon mean it's the better air-to-air fighter? Just curious.

The griffen seems to be a much more practical and efficient aircraft for the modern battlefield.

For those who cannot afford something like the F/A-22 or even the Eurofighter. The Swedes provide a decent, low cost alternative to US fighters and an alternative to buying from the Russians or the Chinese at a higher cost. Sure, it'll work, but it will die against the Raptor or probably even against the Su-30MK series. Given that fact, which would you rather fly?

Also, no one here knows the full capabilities of the Raptor, and there's no discussion of the power of the AESA radar onboard, especially compared to the current mechanically scanned array of the Gripen. If you don't think that matters, then you should just not bother to post in this thread.

I could get to jail for saying this but working at Ericsson Microwave in the late 90's (they make the radar system for the Griffin) I saw they had a phased array radar system under development, which means electronically controlled scanning and not mechanical.

Anyway, this thread is pretty stupid. Apples vs Oranges.......

There are a lot of things in development, including directed energy weapons and electromagnetic railguns. The F-22 is operational right now. Apparently, Saab plans to upgrade the Gripen radar to AESA with a target date of 2012, but I'm guessing that's a little optomistic because that's including a radar upgrade in between which hasn't taken place yet (the Mk 4 version).

Incidentally, phased array doesn't always mean Active Electronically Scanned Array -- there are passive versions. I'm still learning EW stuff so I can't go into much beyond that.

True, but in this case I KNOW it's AESA.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: DarkKnight69
The Typhoon will be a closer match to the F-22. It is regarded as many as a better air-to-air fighter then the f-22 but would likely be shot down due to f-22 stealth.

Ignoring the unsupported declaratory statement, doesn't the fact that the Raptor would shoot down the Typhoon mean it's the better air-to-air fighter? Just curious.

The griffen seems to be a much more practical and efficient aircraft for the modern battlefield.

For those who cannot afford something like the F/A-22 or even the Eurofighter. The Swedes provide a decent, low cost alternative to US fighters and an alternative to buying from the Russians or the Chinese at a higher cost. Sure, it'll work, but it will die against the Raptor or probably even against the Su-30MK series. Given that fact, which would you rather fly?

Also, no one here knows the full capabilities of the Raptor, and there's no discussion of the power of the AESA radar onboard, especially compared to the current mechanically scanned array of the Gripen. If you don't think that matters, then you should just not bother to post in this thread.

I could get to jail for saying this but working at Ericsson Microwave in the late 90's (they make the radar system for the Griffin) I saw they had a phased array radar system under development, which means electronically controlled scanning and not mechanical.

Anyway, this thread is pretty stupid. Apples vs Oranges.......

There are a lot of things in development, including directed energy weapons and electromagnetic railguns. The F-22 is operational right now. Apparently, Saab plans to upgrade the Gripen radar to AESA with a target date of 2012, but I'm guessing that's a little optomistic because that's including a radar upgrade in between which hasn't taken place yet (the Mk 4 version).

Incidentally, phased array doesn't always mean Active Electronically Scanned Array -- there are passive versions. I'm still learning EW stuff so I can't go into much beyond that.

True, but in this case I KNOW it's AESA.

I know it is, too, because it's publicly available information now.

The other comment wasn't directed at you since I was assuming that you knew the difference though others wouldn't.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: IHAVEAQUESTION
Just saw a short clip on youtube about the JAS 39 Gripen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C37RZlONho&mode=related&search=

What's the US equivalent to this fighter?

More vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_yCErNKZ0&mode=related&search=

couldnt watch past the 1st minute of 1st video.

2nd video was meh. was hoping it'll explain how it keep costs/functionality ratio low as the years go by.

edit:
"raptor is a bloated waste of money in which our military will never see a return on their investment"

yup.. yeah Bush

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
Agreed. The US should've pulled the plug on the F-22 project long ago. And I'm sure the so called "combat excercises" where the f22 got a 108-0 kill ratio against f-15s and su's were rigged.

They're not so much rigged as they are inherently unfair. The F22 has such a range advantage over those planes that it can shoot them down before they even know the F22 is there. You could write it up as 1,000,000-0, but it's kind of pointless; sort of like saying that putting an F15 against propeller planes would have a 108-0 kill ratio if supplied with enough ammo.

How 108-0?

wouldnt the f15's detect the missles and take the appropaite defensive action?

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
Agreed. The US should've pulled the plug on the F-22 project long ago. And I'm sure the so called "combat excercises" where the f22 got a 108-0 kill ratio against f-15s and su's were rigged.

They're not so much rigged as they are inherently unfair. The F22 has such a range advantage over those planes that it can shoot them down before they even know the F22 is there. You could write it up as 1,000,000-0, but it's kind of pointless; sort of like saying that putting an F15 against propeller planes would have a 108-0 kill ratio if supplied with enough ammo.

How 108-0?

wouldnt the f15's detect the missles and take the appropaite defensive action?

When the first indication you have is your radar warning screaming that an AMRAAM has you locked, there's not a lot you can do.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: IHAVEAQUESTION
Just saw a short clip on youtube about the JAS 39 Gripen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C37RZlONho&mode=related&search=

What's the US equivalent to this fighter?

More vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_yCErNKZ0&mode=related&search=

couldnt watch past the 1st minute of 1st video.

2nd video was meh. was hoping it'll explain how it keep costs/functionality ratio low as the years go by.

edit:
"raptor is a bloated waste of money in which our military will never see a return on their investment"

yup.. yeah Bush

What does Bush have to do with this? The F-22 program started in 1981.

 

[techs]

Sweden has a population of 9 million.
Yes, 9 million.

 

[0roo0roo]

max takeoff weight of the f22 is more than double the gripens. gripen is built specifically for that small countries military setup. it works for them, but its not as good. its specialized so not many countries bother buying their planes.

this was sexier anyways
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-23_Black_Widow_II

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
Agreed. The US should've pulled the plug on the F-22 project long ago. And I'm sure the so called "combat excercises" where the f22 got a 108-0 kill ratio against f-15s and su's were rigged.

They're not so much rigged as they are inherently unfair. The F22 has such a range advantage over those planes that it can shoot them down before they even know the F22 is there. You could write it up as 1,000,000-0, but it's kind of pointless; sort of like saying that putting an F15 against propeller planes would have a 108-0 kill ratio if supplied with enough ammo.

How 108-0?

wouldnt the f15's detect the missles and take the appropaite defensive action?

When the first indication you have is your radar warning screaming that an AMRAAM has you locked, there's not a lot you can do.

Well, there's a lot you can do, but that doesn't mean that any of it is going to be effective!

The best defensive action is to defeat the missile before it leaves the rail. That's either done by being invisible or by defeating/jamming/spoofing the radar system(s) supporting the missile. If you are continually reacting, you are doomed.