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Will Democrats Learn Or Are We Doomed to Keep Repeating Partisan Tradeoff Elections?

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MrSquished said:
more like 70-80% of Trump voters believe that according to the last polls I saw. These people are unreachable goners. Politically dumber than a chunk of cement one might find at an abandoned construction site.
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Well, thats 70-80 of republicans. Keep in mind, 90% of self-identified republicans still are voting for this guy hook line and sinker. It's a reflection of the general party.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Inyet, somehow I graduated with higher prestige, and make more money than you.

Yet you still continue to articulate this moronic narrative that a political party association dictates intelligence.

Keep peddling such dreams, kid.
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I don't care how much money you make. You are still a political moron. There are poor college graduate students everywhere with more political brains than you will ever have. You excuse idiocy at every turn. I mean literally you are asking us to cater to a demographic that thinks the majority center to center left Democratic party is led by socialist radicals led by a pedophile who want to eliminate the police and who just stole the election while forgetting all about the Senate.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
These 2 underlined/bolded statements are essentially what I just said... "We r smart. They are dumb". Consider reflecting on your own thoughts for once.
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Republicans use fear, lies and propaganda to gain votes. Do Dems do this? Sure but not as much and they are not as good at it. There are many more republican voters who are misinformed. Educated people tend to lean left. There is no equivalent to Q on the left. Dems are not the ones lying to rural America telling them jobs will be coming back.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I'm the least partisan person here. I've stated multiple times that the Republican party is in shambles and is filled with fucking retards. I didn't vote for their POTUS twice now. What do you want? Again, your partisanship is showing because you force me to declare things that have zero relevance to the topic.
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BHahahahHAHAHahahahahAHHAHAHAHAAHhahahahAHAH

seriously go to sleep. you're too fucking drunk.
 
ElFenix said:
lack of door to door canvassing and in person anything, mostly.

floriduh in the last 2 election cycles enfranchised felons and approved a $15 minimum wage. yet they also flipped a senate seat from blue to red, elected human beer bong rip ron desantis to the governor's mansion, and voted for donald trump for president.
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Howard Dean would undoubtedly agree with you
 
MrSquished said:
I mean literally you are asking us to cater to a demographic that thinks the majority center to center left Democratic party is led by socialist radicals led by a pedophile who want to eliminate the police and who just stole the election while forgetting all about the Senate.
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lol.

Can you please cite ANYWHERE where I have said such a thing? I mean, in all honesty, I can't remember the last time I've vocally shitted on socialism in general or the Q Anon bullshit that I presume you're referring to?

But hey - continue on with your broad brush generalities - it's pretty comical. Keep pulling shit out of your ass that I never said. God forbid you cite anything.

For fucks sake, you might as well be a racist saying I don't hate black people, but....
 
Sunburn74 said:
Lol. Is this a serious question?

Gerrymandering and propaganda is probably the answer.

Gerrymandering is obvious (look at popular vote totals within states and the distribution of seats). In wisconsin, dems have to win by like +10 to split the house. Not even a fair fight.

But more concerning is that how can you convince people to vote for something reasonable, when they show you signs that they don't believe reasonable and established truths? Don't polls show something like 70% of republicans believe significant voter fraud just occurred? 70% What hope can you have for a reasonable, nuanced ballot initiative when the people voting aren't even in touch with reality? It's like trying to convince 6 year olds who still believe in Santa to raise taxes so that police officers can get pain. I mean its a reasonable proposition, but 6 year olds aren't going to go for that; they still believe in santa.

Honestly the better question to ask is how does any ballot initiative pass at all in red states, other than the ones that are all about fucking over thy neighbor?
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Gerrymandering and propaganda are the tired and cliche excused Democrats tell themselves, Maher hit closer to the mark, you even alluded to it with your Santa analogy. If you can’t articulate the benefits of your policies in a way that resonates with the electorate, how do you expect to decisively win elections up and down ballot? Reagan understood this. Bill Clinton understood this, but his wife did not. Obama understood this, but his former VP clearly did not.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Inyet, somehow I graduated with higher prestige, and make more money than you.

Yet you still continue to articulate this moronic narrative that a political party association dictates intelligence.

Keep peddling such dreams, kid.
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Your prestigious education sure didn't teach you much. No one has claimed that political party association dictates intelligence. However, that is different from the argument that intelligence influences political party affiliation. You aren't smarter because you are a democrat. However, smarter people tend to be democrats. People that are able to identify actual facts, people that are able to understand data, people that don't just go by their gut intuition, people that trust in science, those people do tend to be democrats. Because for most issues, democrats have facts on their side. Republican's advantage? They do tend to be better at marketing, and they are better at gaming the system.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
lol.

Can you please cite ANYWHERE where I have said such a thing? I mean, in all honesty, I can't remember the last time I've vocally shitted on socialism in general or the Q Anon bullshit that I presume you're referring to?

But hey - continue on with your broad brush generalities - it's pretty comical. Keep pulling shit out of your ass that I never said. God forbid you cite anything.
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Joe biden is a socialist and a pedophile and election stealer are all mainstream thoughts of the Trumphumpers at this point. I see it, my friends see it. It's not just randoms on social media. This is coming from a huge chunk of the right wingers we know as this point. First and foremost he is a socialist, then election stealer and then a big ratio of what's left think he touches children in funny places.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Gerrymandering and propaganda are the tired and cliche excused Democrats tell themselves, Maher hit closer to the mark, you even alluded to it with your Santa analogy. If you can’t articulate the benefits of your policies in a way that resonates with the electorate, how do you expect to decisively win elections up and down ballot? Reagan understood this. Bill Clinton understood this, but his wife did not. Obama understood this, but his former VP clearly did not.
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Misinformation and propaganda are a major issue and a weapon republicans use constantly. Do you not realize that. Both sides do it but not to the same extent,. You do realize that correct?

Dismissing that fact is idiotic but seem like that is what you are attempting to do in your post.
 
MrSquished said:
Joe biden is a socialist and a pedophile and election stealer are all mainstream thoughts of the Trumphumpers at this point. I see it, my friends see it. It's not just randoms on social media. This is coming from a huge chunk of the right wingers we know as this point. First and foremost he is a socialist, then election stealer and then a big ratio of what's left think he touches children in funny places.
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Got it. Zero citations. All moronic. Keep on losing elections and never making progress - even when horrible deplorables like myself vote for your party out of disdain and pity.

You are part of the reason why this thread is a documentary and not a discussion.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Gerrymandering and propaganda are the tired and cliche excused Democrats tell themselves, Maher hit closer to the mark, you even alluded to it with your Santa analogy. If you can’t articulate the benefits of your policies in a way that resonates with the electorate, how do you expect to decisively win elections up and down ballot? Reagan understood this. Bill Clinton understood this, but his wife did not. Obama understood this, but his former VP clearly did not.
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You can't have a discussion on policy with people don't live in reality. Period. There is nothing to talk about in that regard.

I work in a field where people come to me and ask me for help and I tell them what to do to solve their problem. I work with the general population, slightly older perhaps but the general population. Believe it or a not, there is a sizable portion of the population who simply are not living in anything you would call reality. They have no real clue about their problems and then even if you tell them exactly how to solve their problem they tell you things that are physically not possible or could be true. Things that just make you say "wow, really? is that what you think is happening here". Imagine you're a pest control guy and you go to a house and tell the guy how to get rid of his rats, and he tells you that the rats are needed to build a wall to keep the mexicans out because without them american jobs will be lost and american women will be raped and killed. What nuanced ballot initiative do you want me to package together to change the way this guy thinks? The way you reach people like that is with outrageous stuff that doesn't make sense but resonates with them internally as kind of a good idea. Cut taxes! Build a wall! Death to this minority group because they are the cause of all your problems! Not exactly policy but propaganda.

You're so concerned about why the democratic message isn't resonating with more people, when you should be more concerned with just wtf is going on with people these days and why american society is generally devolving on all fronts?

Also dismissing the impact of gerrymandering is part of the problem. Like I said in wisconsin, to split even dems have to be +10 on the popular vote. Just to split even. Yet to you its a non issue and not in anyway a problem with our democracy, that 60% of the people are losing to 40% of the people because of the machinations of politicians who want to stay in power.
 
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I doubt identity politics will play a major role in the midterms. If I had to guess healthcare will again be front and center. Dems seem to have some ideas and the right's plan seems to simply attack those ideas. If trump is still a political factor at that point maybe we will finally see his plan.
 
zinfamous said:
Now, the message seems to be full-on batshit, and maybe just more of it, to win the GOP base and motivate them to vote.
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I am fine with us going batshit to counter them. So long as it is hopeful and inspiring for people to believe in a better future.
Even though the prospects for that seem quite distant and dim at this point.
 
fskimospy said:
It's kind of funny that this thread is inherently about criticizing the electoral strategy of the people who won and promoting the strategy of the people who lost.
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Dumping Trump, keeping the Senate, and cutting the Democrats down to a slim margin in the House. Who won 2020?

The criticism is this. If we couldn't muster a blue wave backlash against something as opaquely grotesque as Trump, we are in serious trouble. A lame duck President with split government means we maintain the status quo and trickle down continues to drive our people into poverty while blaming the new President for Republican action.

At best, I'd call this outcome a mess.

And the "strategy" is to build up a hardcore base that is energized and resolved to turn out and vote. To adapt to the existence of social media and weaponize it the way Republicans have. Many Americans are unthinking. It would behoove us to not let Republicans claim that majority without a fight. To at least wage a challenge in their own arena. We need to be smart AND stupid, you catch my drift?
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Gerrymandering and propaganda are the tired and cliche excused Democrats tell themselves, Maher hit closer to the mark, you even alluded to it with your Santa analogy. If you can’t articulate the benefits of your policies in a way that resonates with the electorate, how do you expect to decisively win elections up and down ballot? Reagan understood this. Bill Clinton understood this, but his wife did not. Obama understood this, but his former VP clearly did not.
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That's odd, because I could swear that Maher has the same opinion on gerrymandering as basically all other democrats.

And I'm also fairly certain the arguments he made in that video were not meant as monocausal explanations, either. Clearly they appealed to you, however, because they provide another excuse for you to bash democrats. Which TBH is kind of your thing.
 
woolfe9998 said:
That's odd, because I could swear that Maher has the same opinion on gerrymandering as basically all other democrats.

And I'm also fairly certain the arguments he made in that video were not meant as monocausal explanations, either. Clearly they appealed to you, however, because they provide another excuse for you to bash democrats. Which TBH is kind of your thing.
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Agreeing with Maher on one point doesn’t necessitate I agree with him on everything. The same as I felt Chapelle’s SNL monologues were brilliant both after the 2016 and 2020 elections even if I didn’t necessarily agree with his entire narrative. I like people who challenge echo chambers. That is my thing.
 
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