Will Democrats Learn Or Are We Doomed to Keep Repeating Partisan Tradeoff Elections?

[gothuevos]

I do think this country is going on the major decline. A vast majority of Trump voters believe this election was stolen, Joe Biden is a radical socalist pedophile, and even the ones saved by Medicaid expansion and other state efforts think government programs are evil. These people are civically and politically unreachable. It's too big a chunk to overcome. A functioning democracy needs a far larger percentage of its population to be at least somewhat informed, not straight up delusional. This decline will happen faster than we thought possible.

It's really, really depressing.

Any thoughts on how we can step back from this rapidly approaching ledge? Do we think a combination of hopefully overcoming COVID and a somewhat rebounded economy in the next couple of years + short voter attention spans will be enough to save us all?

 

[brycejones]

You are confusing Martin Luther with John Wesley.
Wesley started Evangelicalism. Luther improved it.

Martin Luther lived 200 years before John Wesley.......

 

[ondma]

It's really, really depressing.

Any thoughts on how we can step back from this rapidly approaching ledge? Do we think a combination of hopefully overcoming COVID and a somewhat rebounded economy in the next couple of years + short voter attention spans will be enough to save us all?

It is going to be a tough road. The democrats are divided between the moderate and liberal wings, while the Reps are pretty much united on message, however misogonistic it may be. Short attention span will not solve the problem, as Fox News/Twitter/Facebook will continue to spread Trumps agenda.

 

[MtnMan]

The entire democratic platform social agenda? I dont find a single positive thing here. The entire platform is worth going to civil war to prevent or state seceding from if implemented.

• The Green New Deal - Bad Energy policy
  • Eliminating Fossil fuels and Energy Independence. Gov't takeover of Gas and Oil Companies. No fracking, no drilling. Shutdown our nations largest and most important industry.
  • Elimination of Non-Electric Motor Vehicles
  • Elimination of Air Travel
  • Switching to Wind/Solar
    • Is not sustainable, especially with all electric charging vehicles, will quadruple our energy needs far beyond the capacity of this technology.
  • Elimination of coal and steel
    • lose the ability to manufacture tanks and warships.
  • Limiting/Elimination of Cattle Farming
• Cancel Culture
  • Political scrubbing of our history
  • Elimination of National Monuments
• Domestic Agenda
  • Pro-Substance Abuse Policy
    • Legalization and legitimizing recreational drugs use
      • Will increase abuse
      • Will increase financial irresponsibility
  • Removal of the second amendment
  • Paying off Student Debt
    • While continuing to give students full access to 4 year degrees which do not contribute to being employable - Liberal Arts/General Education/Philosophy/Sociology/ Basket Weaving
    • Attempts to legitimatize the "starving artist" and "Gig worker" lifestyle
  • Defund Police
    • Antifa-BLM Riots/Looting/Burning
  • Decriminalizing Homelessness and Vagrancy
• Elimination of all currency
  • Universal Basic Income
  • Universal Free Healthcare
• Limiting/Elimination of Religious rights
  • Conflicts with Homosexual / Trans rights vs against religious values
  • Elimination of the nuclear family
  • Increased access to abortion as birth control instead of personal responsibility.
    • Promotes promiscuity
    • Abortion is a white supremacy tool against poor blacks and should be condemned and delegitimized
• Bad Immigration Policy
  • Increased immigration while our country is overpopulated and unable to bear the current load of homelessness and unemployment
  • Continual immigration renewal without ever having to undergo the full naturalization process
• International Politics and Globalization
  • Supports Muslim Countries over Israel.
  • Supports the One world Government agenda - which is the kingdom of the AntiChrist
  • Elimination of USA as the world leader in westernized culture
  • Reparations to 3rd world countries because of American imperialism
  • Willing to offshore all Blue Collar, Trade, and Uneducated Labor jobs to china so the USA can become a nation entirely composed of White Collar Bankers and Hair Dressers.
  • Reparations
    • Slavery Reparations from taxes of people who never owned a slave.

Damn the boy is so proud of his utter stupidity that he formats it into bullet points like a resume.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I'm the least partisan person here. I've stated multiple times that the Republican party is in shambles and is filled with fucking retards. I didn't vote for their POTUS twice now. What do you want? Again, your partisanship is showing because you force me to declare things that have zero relevance to the topic.

Your track record speaks for itself. Anyone besides this partisan hack differ with my opinion?

Now what about the rest of my post.

 

[MrSquished]

The fact is the Dems need to back off some of the identity politics, but not progressive policy. They lost in red leaning swing districts they had just picked up in the blue wave of 2018, which is where the incumbent party traditionally fares worse anyways. Turnout for Trump in 2020 was significantly higher than expected, and these die hard Trump voters are certainly not going to worry about downballot races, they are gonna vote straight R the whole way down in these mostly gerrymandered districts. These results are to be expected. Stupid shit like the moronic defund the police slogans hurt, because the right wing and media are so good at amplifying these messages and then attaching it to the entire Democratic party. It's tough to beat propaganda. I doubt most of these dems would have won these traditionally red districts no matter what, but that does not mean we shouldn't control messaging better.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The reason why Starbuck scolds Democrats not to pander to twitter is so that he can simultaneously straw man all Dems as being like the most vocal ones on twitter (which is clearly not the case) while ignoring the obvious fact that the Republican party is being led from twitter.

Still hiding from the Portland thread, thanks as always for the concern!

 

[fskimospy]

Still hiding from the Portland thread, thanks as always for the concern!

Would that be the thread where you deliberately and deceptively edited a news source to take out a passage that disproved your point?

That Portland thread?

 

[Starbuck1975]

No there isn't. See, we can't even agree if common sense exists. How are people to agree on what it supposedly tells them? Common sense is the idea that people have a magical ability to know the right answer through 'gut instinct' or folk wisdom, and it is a fairy tale.


Just like the news.


Why? It seems to work. Look at Trump.


Of course it does. Most people want to be entertained, not educated.
That is what he does, he entertains, not educates.


Indeed.

To what then do you attribute Democrats losing Congressional seats and not scoring victories at the state level, not even for ballot initiatives?

 

[OrByte]

When not branded with sh!tty slogans like "defund the police" most of the democrat platform is favored by the majority of Americans.

Back when Rodney King was beaten half to death people called for "police reform" not "defund the police"

There is your problem in a nutshell.

Go on down the list:

"Pro Life" Versus "Pro Choice" (Who here isn't "Pro Life"? think of the rhetoric for a second)

"green new deal" enuf said

"socialism." Which isn't necessarily the democrat platform but ask joeschmoe on the street and I bet you that's what he thinks.

rhetoric and branding. yes I think it's that simple. imo

 

[ElFenix]

To what then do you attribute Democrats losing Congressional seats and not scoring victories at the state level, not even for ballot initiatives?

lack of door to door canvassing and in person anything, mostly.

floriduh in the last 2 election cycles enfranchised felons and approved a $15 minimum wage. yet they also flipped a senate seat from blue to red, elected human beer bong rip ron desantis to the governor's mansion, and voted for donald trump for president.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

When not branded with sh!tty slogans like "defund the police" most of the democrat platform is favored by the majority of Americans.

Back when Rodney King was beaten half to death people called for "police reform" not "defund the police"

There is your problem in a nutshell.

Go on down the list:

"Pro Life" Versus "Pro Choice" (Who here isn't "Pro Life"? think of the rhetoric for a second)

"green new deal" enuf said

"socialism." Which isn't necessarily the democrat platform but ask joeschmoe on the street and I bet you that's what he thinks.

rhetoric and branding. yes I think it's that simple. imo

Go through this forum for just 15 minutes. Pletny o' fucktards are 'abound advocating for the phrase "defund the police".

"NO NO! It doesn't mean that!" Even though it literally meets the dictionary definition lol.

 

[ElFenix]

When not branded with sh!tty slogans like "defund the police" most of the democrat platform is favored by the majority of Americans.

Back when Rodney King was beaten half to death people called for "police reform" not "defund the police"

There is your problem in a nutshell.

Go on down the list:

"Pro Life" Versus "Pro Choice" (Who here isn't "Pro Life"? think of the rhetoric for a second)

"green new deal" enuf said

"socialism." Which isn't necessarily the democrat platform but ask joeschmoe on the street and I bet you that's what he thinks.

rhetoric and branding. yes I think it's that simple. imo

green new deal is a fine slogan, but it got what every slogan the democrats come up with gets, tarred by brain dead ragey moral panic inducing grievance signalling from the right.

the democrats aren't socialist yet they get that label, again, from the brain dead ragey moral panic inducing grievance signalling from the right.

police reform needed moved on from because people have talked about it for decades and shit is still the same. defund the police gets people engaged but it's also an easy target for brain dead ragey moral panic inducing grievance signalling from the right. as karl rove said, if you're explaining, you're losing. edit: demonstration literally as i was posting this, l-o-fucking-l

i'm pro life. i'm also pro choice. what i'm not is anti abortion, but the left isn't particularly great at tarring the right, so that doesn't stick so much.

 

[OrByte]

green new deal is a fine slogan, but it got what every slogan the democrats come up with gets, tarred by brain dead ragey moral panic inducing grievance signalling from the right.

the democrats aren't socialist yet they get that label, again, from the brain dead ragey moral panic inducing grievance signalling from the right.

police reform needed moved on from because people have talked about it for decades and shit is still the same. defund the police gets people engaged but it's also an easy target for brain dead ragey moral panic inducing grievance signalling from the right. as karl rove said, if you're explaining, you're losing. edit: demonstration literally as i was posting this, l-o-fucking-l

i'm pro life. i'm also pro choice. what i'm not is anti abortion, but the left isn't particularly great at tarring the right, so that doesn't stick so much.

Agree 100% and I think Karl Rove (a man I will forever despise) is right.

The Dems are stuck on explaining, the "brain dead ragey moral right" is busy creating appeals to emotions and false authority fallacies and every other fallacious arguments to hook in low information viewers.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Agree 100% and I think Karl Rove (a man I will forever despise) is right.

The Dems are stuck on explaining, the "brain dead ragey moral right" is busy creating appeals to emotions and false authority fallacies and every other fallacious arguments to hook in low information viewers.

Right, thats it...

The left is just too smart for the right. Thats why people aren't appealing to us - they don't understand how smart we are!

Christ - you guys need some mental help. There is little to no hope for you - and thus why you continue to lose with your own self-ignorance.

 

[fskimospy]

Right, thats it...

The left is just too smart for the right. Thats why people aren't appealing to us - they don't understand how smart we are!

Christ - you guys need some mental help. There is little to no hope for you - and thus why you continue to lose with your own self-ignorance.

And of course by 'continue to lose' you mean 'win'.

Remember how you predicted Trump would win, using a lot of the same logic, and then he got crushed? Did you stop and think why you made such a dumb prediction after that?

 

[OrByte]

Right, thats it...

The left is just too smart for the right. Thats why people aren't appealing to us - they don't understand how smart we are!

Christ - you guys need some mental help. There is little to no hope for you - and thus why you continue to lose with your own self-ignorance.

you are mis-characterizing my opinion. At no point did I say I was smarter than you nor anyone.

Show me my ignorance. Sincerely.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

you are mis-characterizing my opinion. At no point did I say I was smarter than you nor anyone.

Show me my ignorance. Sincerely.

Agree 100% and I think Karl Rove (a man I will forever despise) is right.

The Dems are stuck on explaining, the "brain dead ragey moral right" is busy creating appeals to emotions and false authority fallacies and every other fallacious arguments to hook in low information viewers.

These 2 underlined/bolded statements are essentially what I just said... "We r smart. They are dumb". Consider reflecting on your own thoughts for once.

 

[MrSquished]

you are mis-characterizing my opinion. At no point did I say I was smarter than you nor anyone.

Show me my ignorance. Sincerely.

Politically we are smarter than him and them. This guy was just not dumb enough to vote for Trump. Barely. That's not saying much, it's a low bar. Other than that he is mostly a nincompoop. Is it that hard to admit that one side who believes Joe Biden is a national conspiracy election stealing radical socialist marxist pedophile just might be more dumb than the other? It's about time to call these idiots what they are. Fucking political mental midgets.

 

[Sunburn74]

To what then do you attribute Democrats losing Congressional seats and not scoring victories at the state level, not even for ballot initiatives?

Lol. Is this a serious question?

Gerrymandering and propaganda is probably the answer.

Gerrymandering is obvious (look at popular vote totals within states and the distribution of seats). In wisconsin, dems have to win by like +10 to split the house. Not even a fair fight.

But more concerning is that how can you convince people to vote for something reasonable, when they show you signs that they don't believe reasonable and established truths? Don't polls show something like 70% of republicans believe significant voter fraud just occurred? 70% What hope can you have for a reasonable, nuanced ballot initiative when the people voting aren't even in touch with reality? It's like trying to convince 6 year olds who still believe in Santa to raise taxes so that police officers can get pain. I mean its a reasonable proposition, but 6 year olds aren't going to go for that; they still believe in santa.

Honestly the better question to ask is how does any ballot initiative pass at all in red states, other than the ones that are all about fucking over thy neighbor?

 

[MrSquished]

Lol.
Gerrymandering and propaganda?
I mean, don't polls show something like 30-50% of republicans believe significant voter fraud just occurred? What hope can you have for a reasonable, nuanced ballot initiative when the people voting aren't even in touch with reality?

more like 70-80% of Trump voters believe that according to the last polls I saw. These people are unreachable goners. Politically dumber than a chunk of cement one might find at an abandoned construction site.

 

[zinfamous]

Ohhhh most assuredly it has lol.

I've just been sitting back reading the massive amounts of ignorance that is present on this forum as roughly 85% of the posts do what I expected - immediately divert the topic to "the other side".

Like I said, for as much as people proclaim to hate Trump, in hindsight their narcissistic actions clearly shows they idolize him.



Anyhow - enjoy Republicans winning over and over again and constantly telling yourself "Why? Everybody loves us!"

It's especially making me fall over laughing at folks saying the election is rigged for Republicans lol. Just read their posts in Trump's voice and it's just a perfect-o match.

the forum narcissist keeps posting and pretending that he isn't talking about himself.

it's fucking hilarious.

 

[OrByte]

These 2 underlined/bolded statements are essentially what I just said... "We r smart. They are dumb". Consider reflecting on your own thoughts for once.

I think the right is very smart. fallacious arguments work for a reason.

Governing takes nuance, and detail. Democrats rely on nuance and detail to make the case. Sort of like the back and forth we are having right now.

An example. Trump can claim he has a healthcare plan...its coming. it will be great. It will solve all of your problems. it will be here in 2 weeks. you will love it. Its fantastic. Here I will give you a big binder full of my plans for healthcare (empty) and all of the experts think its fantastic. Wouldn't you know it, people believe he has a healthcare plan. why?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Politically we are smarter than him and them. This guy was just not dumb enough to vote for Trump. Barely. That's not saying much, it's a low bar. Other than that he is mostly a nincompoop. Is it that hard to admit that one side who believes Joe Biden is a national conspiracy election stealing radical socialist marxist pedophile just might be more dumb than the other? It's about time to call these idiots what they are. Fucking political mental midgets.

Inyet, somehow I graduated with higher prestige, and make more money than you.

Yet you still continue to articulate this moronic narrative that a political party association dictates intelligence.

Keep peddling such dreams, kid.

 

[zinfamous]

You mean the same "advantage" that was and is our defined electoral process for more than 200 years? That one?

let's take a pause, since when you know you love quizzes but have never really been given the chance to display your "superior intellect" that you routinely claim that you have.

Do you know why the electoral college exists, and how it came into being?