Will Democrats Learn Or Are We Doomed to Keep Repeating Partisan Tradeoff Elections?

[s0me0nesmind1]

This week Bill Maher was spot the fuck on that folks here should learn to take note of. I sincerely implore everyone here (that still has half a brain) to watch this video and sincerely think about your future goals.

Why You Lose Elections... And will Continue to Lose
One of the main crux that Democrats continue to say is that essentially Gerrymandering is the only thing keeping Republicans alive. If we just magically eliminate redistricting, we will magically consistently win everything. If anything, 2020 has proven this flat out wrong.


I know that most people here are simply too inept to take any sort of self-criticism, but try to take yourself out of that zone for just half a second and watch someone that consistently advocates for your own side.

America is ABSOLUTELY fucking tired of identity politics. As mentioned in the video - no actual Latins (ESPECIALLY non-Americanized Latins) want to be called Latinx. It's literally insulting to their language and culture. But here you on inciting your white privilege onto their culture + language to tell them how THEY should behave. Go figure. The irony is hilarious.

But here is the crux of the problem. You won't learn. Not a single person here on the left would dare take criticism of their own side - and will immediately duhvert any conversations revolving around criticism as a whataboutism, strawman, or complete diversion of the topic altogether. And that.... my friends... is why you are destined to keep recycling out who wins elections and mid-terms - because you can't for the life of you take any criticism and realize why you lose elections. It's much easier and takes less IQ points to just say "Well, they are all deplorables - nothing we can do here".


Inyet, you continue to do absolutely NOTHING but propping up nothing but rich white liberals that live in coastal cities. When it came to middle-class bailouts for COVID - what was one of the biggest things Pelosi + Schumer stood under? SALT (State & Local Tax) deduction caps. LOL. Something that literally only applies to the top 10% of folks that are able to itemize their tax returns and beat a $24,000 standard deduction. Go Figure. So that brings us to Biden's next plans... his amazing... progressive... HUUUUUUUUUUUGe changing plans....



Take a look at Biden's Tax Plan.
It makes sure to protect just about every single rich suburban liberals working cushy tech jobs of 6-figures. https://taxfoundation.org/joe-biden-tax-plan-2020/

Liberals VERY clearly continue to target the top 10% as they continue to attempt to appeal to that white upper-middle class central-parker that calls the police on black people. They continue to shit on the working class and not appeal to or acknowledge them in the slightest.

Inyet you keep ignoring all the polling, ballot initiatives, etc... that unanimously shows that America is the furthest thing from divided. Just take a look at who showed up to help out for this election for Biden.... Was it poor suffering minorities? Nope. Rich suburb whities. That's it.

But with ballot initiatives such as weed legalization in many state, raising the minimum wage in Florida, and declining Uber/Lyft Drivers in California as contractors the point remains the same.... We're actually pretty united.



So that brings us back to the election of 2020.....

Democrats lost minority votes. They gained in rich white suburban votes - many of which were likely temporary due to our current inept POTUS. You gained zero dedication of new voters - and instead simply swayed some rich educated class to temporarily abandon Trump. Bravo!

But guess what that means? It means come 2022 - we will have a Republican majority in Congress + Senate - and a Republican President consistently trading off every 4 or 8 years as well

All of this can be easily negated if you actually went back to the root of what you intended to stand behind which is the working class.... but you wont. and thus we will continue the same cycle. In the event of a crisis - you will continue to bailout banks while evicting the middle class. Enjoy your own self-deprecation.

Spoiler

I'm genuinely curious how many here are capable of any self-criticism. The answer is likely zero as seen by incompetent fools like eskimo.

 

[gothuevos]

Hard to argue against Maher's points.

 

[fskimospy]

Did you not read your own thing? Democrats lose because the system is rigged.

 

[Zorba]

I agree with Maher and the Lt. Governor of PA. Dems need to get back to talking about issues that affect wide swaths of the population. I've never drank or touched a drug in my life, but its time to legalize weed, with regulations. That one thing will improve an order of magnitude more people than trans bathroom usage.

Get power talking about how you are going to help big chunks of the population and then you can also help the smaller chucks at the same time. How the fuck do you loss a state that voted 60/40 for a $15 minimum wage?

 

[nickqt]

The problem isn't the Republican Party, Republican Party voters, or Donald Trump.

It's Democrats using the phrase LatinX.

Oh, and Democrats need to save America since the Republican Party is batshit insane and is trying to kill us all.

OK, got it.

---

The Democratic Party always has an uphill climb in elections because most states are gerrymandered by Republicans who control most states. Democrats can win by millions of votes but because of arbitrary lines, they can still lose elections.

That said, sure, the Democratic Party ain't perfect. Besides your strawman arguments, no Democratic voter says it is.

Sure, let's drop "identity politics" and discuss ways in which the Democratic Party can bring back its support of lower and middle class.

But, maybe Republicans, who are trying to kill us all, should stop SCREAMING HYSTERICALLY that the Democratic Party is COMMUNIST and are going to turn America into VENEZUELA.

But, you and Maher are right.

Republicans are batshit insane and trying to kill us all. And we need the Democratic Party to be better and win.

 

[kage69]

A warped, corrupt political system heavily weighted in one party's favor, and a cult of personality that overrides common sense and science. Both of these are vastly more dangerous to democracy than annoying purity tests. I get Maher's anger, I share some of it, but the cult problem and it's bedrock of racism is magnitudes more worrying than people arguing about inclusion and pronouns.

Anyone who thinks Dems sticking their noses in the air is more of a problem than repugs sticking their heads up their asses over Covid19 is cordially invited to enjoy a large mug of STFU, my treat. I'm not going to bother arguing which is more serious for the average American taxpayer.

 

[Greenman]

Did you not read your own thing? Democrats lose because the system is rigged.

Astonishingly myopic.
Here in the heart of blue America we just voted down affirmative action for the second time. We just voted against giving gig economy workers employee status, and we voted against increasing property tax on corporations. Does that sound progressive to you? Does that sound like a state full of hard core leftist's?
The OP is right on the mark.

 

[K1052]

Get power talking about how you are going to help big chunks of the population and then you can also help the smaller chucks at the same time. How the fuck do you loss a state that voted 60/40 for a $15 minimum wage?

Joe Biden the Castro style socialist will raise the minimum wage. Trump the hero capitalist will not raise the minimum wage. FL voters decide to raise the minimum wage and elect Trump.

Let me propose for a minute that most voters aren't exactly tuned in policy wise and no amount of policy appeals can change their minds.

 

[fskimospy]

Astonishingly myopic.
Here in the heart of blue America we just voted down affirmative action for the second time. We just voted against giving gig economy workers employee status, and we voted against increasing property tax on corporations. Does that sound progressive to you? Does that sound like a state full of hard core leftist's?
The OP is right on the mark.

What does that have to do with anything?

This is astonishingly simple - when it comes to the House, the Presidency, and the Senate the party that gets the most votes doesn't win. If that's not rigged, what is?

 

[Zorba]

Joe Biden the Castro style socialist will raise the minimum wage. Trump the hero capitalist will not raise the minimum wage. FL voters decide to raise the minimum wage and elect Trump.

Let me propose for a minute that most voters aren't exactly tuned in policy wise and no amount of policy appeals can change their minds.

I agree, most are ignorant, and it was hard to control the message with Trump in the room. But there was little of substance discussed wrt helping working class. Obviously, babies in cages didn't move many people, maybe we should've spent that time on living wages and legal weed.

 

[Zorba]

What does that have to do with anything?

This is astonishingly simple - when it comes to the House, the Presidency, and the Senate the party that gets the most votes doesn't win. If that's not rigged, what is?

Of course it's rigged, and Republicans some how hold the default vote of way too many people, that doesn't mean democrats don't have a messaging problem.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course it's rigged, and Republicans some how hold the default vote of way too many people, that doesn't mean democrats don't have a messaging problem.

I think it's fair to say that Democrats need to message differently because they are trying to win in a rigged system, but the actual problem is not that they don't appeal to the majority of Americans as they have already proven that they do. Their issue is that they don't appeal to the supermajority of Americans necessary for them to win political power because the system is rigged.

Also, Maher's point is dumb, and this comes from someone who watches his show almost every week. Americans aren't sick of identity politics, Americans LOVE identity politics. The argument is that Americans only like WHITE identity politics, which is what the Republican party is based on.

 

[K1052]

I agree, most are ignorant, and it was hard to control the message with Trump in the room. But there was little of substance discussed wrt helping working class. Obviously, babies in cages didn't move many people, maybe we should've spent that time on living wages and legal weed.

I mean a $15 min wage, free/better education, expanded healthcare, vast infrastructure projects, raise taxes on the rich, etc sound like fairly substantial pro-working class policy to me.

 

[IronWing]

Of course it's rigged, and Republicans some how hold the default vote of way too many people, that doesn't mean democrats don't have a messaging problem.

I agree that the Dems have a messaging problem. They have to find a way to convince the blue collar workers and the working poor to stop voting against their self interests. It's been a problem since blue collar workers swooned over Reagan's crooning and voted for him despite the fact that his policies were designed to hurt them. Having good policy proposals alone doesn't work; the Dems have to convince blue collar and working poor voters that economic policies that affect them are more important than continuing the circus sideshow that is the Republican platform.

 

[kage69]

Americans aren't sick of identity politics, Americans LOVE identity politics. The argument is that Americans only like WHITE identity politics, which is what the Republican party is based on.

That

 

[K1052]

Also a lot of the predictions about what's going to happen politically over the short to medium haul are...pretty premature. The Dems are wandering around trying to make sense of the Biden coalition and the GOP is essentially frozen in place by Trump who's own interests many not be compatible with theirs electorally now. The GA runoff is already kind of signaling that last point as the Rs get worried.

What things will look like in 2022 or 2024 is a real open question.

 

[SMOGZINN]

America is ABSOLUTELY fucking tired of identity politics.

I keep hearing this, but it seems to me that it is the ONLY thing voters really care about. I hardly ever hear anyone talk about policy, the only thing anyone seems to really care about is the wedge issues that you are calling 'identity politics'. Trump's voters are not out in numbers because they like his policies. They like his bluster, they like that he attacks the people they hate.

If 2020 has taught us anything it is that policy is not helpful. If you want to win elections you need to talk as little about policy as possible and just attack the wedge issues as hard as you can. Make people feel like they are part of a team and they will stick with you no matter what. Identity politics is all there is left.

Spoiler

I also like how you basically defined not agreeing with you as not being able to take criticism, giving yourself an instant out of having to actually debate the issues because now you can simply just declare anything anyone says as being a bad sport. You really have learned the art of identity politics. Create a side and declare anyone that is against it automatically wrong.[/quote]

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Fucking LOL @ the narcissistic behavior of lefties here. It's quite clear you are your own worst enemy. You are Trump. Congratulations!

You don't dare take this at a self-improvement or criticism level - the first thing you mention is "It's rigged!" Sound familiar, little boys?

I think it's fair to say that Democrats need to message differently because they are trying to win in a rigged system, but the actual problem is not that they don't appeal to the majority of Americans as they have already proven that they do. Their issue is that they don't appeal to the supermajority of Americans necessary for them to win political power because the system is rigged.

 

[dank69]

Just look at all the progressheviks on here using the term Latinx. Just look at all the federal representatives using the term Latinx. Once again, the OP can't distinguish between random twatters and the Democratic platform.

Here is the current DNC platform:

Party Platform - Democrats

Every four years, Democrats from across the country join together to craft our party’s platform. The platform is created to uplift working people and write out the values that will guide our party for years to come.

democrats.org

Download that fucker and search for Latinx.

Do a search of these forums for Latinx and you get a grand total of 36 hits (37 now with this post of mine), some of which don't actually contain Latinx except when quoting someone else, and 3 or 4 of those hits are posts made with your stupid fucking fingers. You are an easily manipulated muppet.

 

[fskimospy]

Fucking LOL @ the narcissistic behavior of lefties here. It's quite clear you are your own worst enemy. You are Trump. Congratulations!

You don't dare take this at a self-improvement or criticism level - the first thing you mention is "It's rigged!" Sound familiar, little boys?

Maher's point is stupid and anyone with a brain knows it. Republicans run almost exclusively on identity politics and do just fine. If identity politics were the problem, why isn't America tired of Republican identity politics?

Imagine a system where one side wins if they get 48% of the vote and the other side only wins if it gets 53% of the vote. Is that rigged? Of course. Maybe you think that a rigged system is a good thing, and if so I encourage you to argue that. This is the simplest idea imaginable. One side wins when it gets the majority of votes, the other side doesn't. Again to anyone with a brain that's rigged.

 

[dank69]

Fucking LOL @ the narcissistic behavior of lefties here. It's quite clear you are your own worst enemy. You are Trump. Congratulations!

You don't dare take this at a self-improvement or criticism level - the first thing you mention is "It's rigged!" Sound familiar, little boys?

We'll take criticism the second you criticize us instead of your fevered hallucinations of what you think we are.

 

[dank69]

I keep hearing this, but it seems to me that it is the ONLY thing voters really care about. I hardly ever hear anyone talk about policy, the only thing anyone seems to really care about is the wedge issues that you are calling 'identity politics'. Trump's voters are not out in numbers because they like his policies. They like his bluster, they like that he attacks the people they hate.

If 2020 has taught us anything it is that policy is not helpful. If you want to win elections you need to talk as little about policy as possible and just attack the wedge issues as hard as you can. Make people feel like they are part of a team and they will stick with you no matter what. Identity politics is all there is left.

Spoiler

I also like how you basically defined not agreeing with you as not being able to take criticism, giving yourself an instant out of having to actually debate the issues because now you can simply just declare anything anyone says as being a bad sport. You really have learned the art of identity politics. Create a side and declare anyone that is against it automatically wrong.

Yeah, for an electorate "so tired of identity politics" the media sure seems to be making a LOT of money by pumping headlines highlighting identity politics.

 

[fskimospy]

We'll take criticism the second you criticize us instead of your fevered hallucinations of what you think we are.

It should be a simple question to answer - the Democrats got the most votes for House, Senate, and Presidency. Why aren't they in charge? They didn't win a large enough supermajority to gain power over the senate and as their supermajority in the House declined they lost seats, but I'm interested in our good friend @s0me0nesmind1 's theory as to why the issue with the party that almost always gets the most votes is that their electoral strategy is wrong instead of maybe the system being bad.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Just look at all the progressheviks on here using the term Latinx. Just look at all the federal representatives using the term Latinx. Once again, the OP can't distinguish between random twatters and the Democratic platform.

Here is the current DNC platform:

Party Platform - Democrats

Every four years, Democrats from across the country join together to craft our party’s platform. The platform is created to uplift working people and write out the values that will guide our party for years to come.

democrats.org

Download that fucker and search for Latinx.

Do a search of these forums for Latinx and you get a grand total of 36 hits (37 now with this post of mine), some of which don't actually contain Latinx except when quoting someone else, and 3 or 4 of those hits are posts made with your stupid fucking fingers. You are an easily manipulated muppet.

Right - so your explanation is basically "It's not a big deal" - then why did a congressman feel the need to vocally mention it on their party call as one of the first priorities that they need to stop doing?

Your self-delusion of saying "Well, I don't see it here on an internet forum of 50 year old men, so it doesn't exist!" is quite hilarious.

 

[dank69]

Right - so your explanation is basically "It's not a big deal" - then why did a congressman feel the need to vocally mention it on their party call as one of the first priorities that they need to stop doing?

Your self-delusion of saying "Well, I don't see it here on an internet forum of 50 year old men, so it doesn't exist!" is quite hilarious.

How do you get "it's not a big deal" out of my post? It's fucking non-existent. You might as well be telling us to stop eating babies because it is really hurting the brand. Which congressman mentioned it? Maybe he's as big of a screwball as you are. We all know how high you hold the opinion of politicians when they aren't saying something you want to hear.