Wife Working on the Goat

[Zivic]

I really wish the positives of the GTO and Camaro could be combined. The visibility and interior were great and so was the fit and finish.

If they could some how knock the camaro down in size by a 1000 lbs and have it loose some of its enormous size I think it would be twice the car

 

[exdeath]

for a rwd street car 400 is the sweet

Need as much power as you can find tires to hook with :awe: Especially now days, 400 HP is very common in factory stock cars.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Need as much power as you can find tires to hook with :awe: Especially now days, 400 HP is very common in factory stock cars.

 

[exdeath]

 

[Zivic]

Need as much power as you can find tires to hook with :awe: Especially now days, 400 HP is very common in factory stock cars.

400bhp might be, but 400whp is not all that common. You get into the 500's and it just becomes hard to get any grip. I am not saying higher HP isn't worthwhile, but based on my experience much beyond 400 starts giving diminishing returns when you start factoring in the effort/money needed for the extra HP.

edit:
but what do I know... I am f^ckin' ricer

 

[exdeath]

400bhp might be, but 400whp is not all that common. You get into the 500's and it just becomes hard to get any grip. I am not saying higher HP isn't worthwhile, but based on my experience much beyond 400 starts giving diminishing returns when you start factoring in the effort/money needed for the extra HP.

edit:
but what do I know... I am f^ckin' ricer

Real tires are $400-600 for two, I wouldn't call that diminishing returns or excessive effort/money. I went from spinning in 3rd on Nittos to hooking in 1st on MTs. Now I want more power.

Also shens if you are having grip issues in an Evo with 500 AWP :awe:

It also depends on the car/engine. Maybe past 400 HP starts getting complicated and expensive in a hurry and gives diminishing returns on a fwd 4 cyl. Not so for a Supra/Cobra.

And I don't know what's up with the ricer comments, I think your cars kick ass. Ricer is the Z I see around town with a triple deck spoiler, body kit, and fart can, and stock 268 HP.

 

[Zivic]

Real tires are $400-600 for two, I wouldn't call that diminishing returns or excessive effort/money. I went from spinning in 3rd on Nittos to hooking in 1st on MTs. Now I want more power.

Also shens if you are having grip issues in an Evo with 500 AWP :awe:

And I don't know what's up with the ricer comments, I think your cars kick ass. Ricer is the Z I see around town with a triple deck spoiler, body kit, and fart can, and stock 268 HP.

pho and bart were calling my cars rice... not you

the evo grips hard. even in snow. I was at 28 psi (~500) over the winter. even on all seasons the car was gripping well. It kind of opened my eyes a bit about my Z. made it seem almost useless

I have a lot of midrange tq with the Z and once the turbos kick in, tire spin. I went to a taller final drive gear and it helped some. made 1st usable again under normal driving, but I still have issues with traction. I have a set MT drag radials and the car does grip decent with them, but I don't want to drive around all the time on DR. I have tried Kuhmo MX, Vredesteins, and BFG KDW's (I know, not the best tires, but definitely not nexens).... just to note, the kuhmos were absolutely horrible. the car was downright dangerous. I like the vredesteins, especially for what I paid for them, but they have since gone up in price, so I doubt I will buy them again. the BFG's grip the best, but are the noisiest of the trio. I just put some conti extremecontacts on my evo.... I like them, but who knows how they would perform on a RWD setup.

If it's 80 and sunny out, with clean roads, the car isnt' bad, but I am always easing into the throttle.... with the evo, you can mash and go. Only thing you need to worry about is where the car is pointed

There is a local guy selling what looks like a nice 03 cobra with 68k on it. I want to go look at it, but I really don't need another car. I am out of garage space the way it is. I think I want to save up my pennies for an NSX or get my wife a 50's bel air

 

[alkemyst]

Real tires are $400-600 for two, I wouldn't call that diminishing returns or excessive effort/money. I went from spinning in 3rd on Nittos to hooking in 1st on MTs. Now I want more power.

Also shens if you are having grip issues in an Evo with 500 AWP :awe:

It also depends on the car/engine. Maybe past 400 HP starts getting complicated and expensive in a hurry and gives diminishing returns on a fwd 4 cyl. Not so for a Supra/Cobra.

And I don't know what's up with the ricer comments, I think your cars kick ass. Ricer is the Z I see around town with a triple deck spoiler, body kit, and fart can, and stock 268 HP.

you keep bringing up 'Mustang' and that pig of a car the supra DOGMA....

Based on how you think 500+HP is always needed, I have doubts you hang out ever at any tracks. It's just shows you are driving GT cars.

 

[Zivic]

Real tires are $400-600 for two, I wouldn't call that diminishing returns or excessive effort/money. I went from spinning in 3rd on Nittos to hooking in 1st on MTs. Now I want more power.
.

Good tires are always a good thing to have.... what I was refering to is, I could run 400-425 whp with just the turbo setup a 500 buck clutch and a tune.


for me to get to 500-600 whp, new EMS, high buck clutch, new fuel system, built motor.

so, $7500 + tune to go from 240 whp (stock) to 400+(twin turbo)

and to go up another 150 hp, it probably cost me 12-13 grand... I think I have 6 into the motor between parts, machine work etc, 1800 for the clutch 3200 between ems and boost control, 1500 for the fuel system and then odds and ends

 

[exdeath]

Good tires are always a good thing to have.... what I was refering to is, I could run 400-425 whp with just the turbo setup a 500 buck clutch and a tune.


for me to get to 500-600 whp, new EMS, high buck clutch, new fuel system, built motor.

so, $7500 + tune to go from 240 whp (stock) to 400+(twin turbo)

and to go up another 150 hp, it probably cost me 12-13 grand... I think I have 6 into the motor between parts, machine work etc, 1800 for the clutch 3200 between ems and boost control, 1500 for the fuel system and then odds and ends

The 350Z / VQ isn't known to be a great platform for a high power build to begin with, and what you describe is exactly why. You're right, the Evo is a much better platform if big numbers are your thing, regardless of the AWD on top of it.

 

[exdeath]

you keep bringing up 'Mustang' and that pig of a car the supra DOGMA....

Based on how you think 500+HP is always needed, I have doubts you hang out ever at any tracks. It's just shows you are driving GT cars.

500 HP is faster than 400 HP in *any* car, whether it's comparing a 400 HP vs 500 HP 4000 lb Charger or a 400 HP vs 500 HP 2500 lb 240SX. Power to weight is a RATIO; you can change either number, or both.

Sure a 400 HP 240 will smoke a 500 HP Charger, but what could a 500 HP 240 smoke? You may only "need" less to get the job done, but for some of us what we minimally "need" isn't the point.

Given ample traction of course. If you can get the power down that you have, why stop there? Some of us like simple straight line acceleration that reflects day to day street driving, and don't really care about doing 180 deg turns between cones where "too much power" is a liability.

3 GHz CPUs are all that are "needed" to run anything, yet people still water cool and push 4-5 GHz. Why?

 

[exdeath]

FWIW I don't aspire to anything beyond 300-400 WHP in my Camry. I'd be happy with 300 WHP which is "just" an engine swap, fuel system, and boost controller away on a 3rd gen 3S. Then again I know it's just for giggles and that I always have the Cobra when the toy car isn't enough to tickle my balls. I probably wouldn't be happy with a 300 WHP Camry if it was my only vehicle.

 

[caniroc]

Wow--this has really taken a turn. lol

Need as much power as you can find tires to hook with :awe: Especially now days, 400 HP is very common in factory stock cars.

Hmmmm--the percentage of Factory cars making 400 rwhp is VERY small.

Good tires are always a good thing to have.... what I was refering to is, I could run 400-425 whp with just the turbo setup a 500 buck clutch and a tune.


for me to get to 500-600 whp, new EMS, high buck clutch, new fuel system, built motor.

so, $7500 + tune to go from 240 whp (stock) to 400+(twin turbo)

and to go up another 150 hp, it probably cost me 12-13 grand... I think I have 6 into the motor between parts, machine work etc, 1800 for the clutch 3200 between ems and boost control, 1500 for the fuel system and then odds and ends

Wow--thats an expensive way to mid 500's whp. Congrats for doing it but... for a cam swap, and a 100hp shot of Nitrous my car will be there too--for about $2000 plus the tune.

FWIW I don't aspire to anything beyond 300-400 WHP in my Camry. I'd be happy with 300 WHP which is "just" an engine swap, fuel system, and boost controller away on a 3rd gen 3S. Then again I know it's just for giggles and that I always have the Cobra when the toy car isn't enough to tickle my balls. I probably wouldn't be happy with a 300 WHP Camry if it was my only vehicle.

"Just"???? Is that all?

 

[exdeath]

Wow--this has really taken a turn. lol

I was actually half heartedly joking with Zivic in a "if you can't spin the tires, you don't have enough power, and if you can spin the tires get better tires... then more power" sort of way...

Seriously though, if I'm going through the trouble of heavily modifing a car like Zivic has done with his Z, I wouldn't settle for 400 HP knowing that every factory stock Mustang 5.0, GTO 6.0, base C6, G8, Camaro SS, SRT8, etc is pushing that much from the factory and is just a tune and intake away from the same at the wheels.

If I'm going to go through the trouble of building an engine and doing a custom turbo setup, the sky is the limit, I'm not going to be happy with "just enough" and only pulling a fender on a brand new stock 5.0 with temp tags. If you're going to mod a car, you need to aim ahead of the competition for the foreseeable future, not just be happy with holding your ground.

Thats the point I'm really on about. Really I'm just convincing Zivic he should be getting better tires and grinning that his 500+ HP Z can still waste all the new cars coming out with 400+ HP instead of giving up or regretting having too much power without trying other tires. In other words fix the traction issue instead of whining about too much power :awe:

 

[MotF Bane]

I was actually half heartedly joking with Zivic in a "if you can't spin the tires, you don't have enough power, and if you can spin the tires get better tires... then more power" sort of way...

I smell circular logic. Or is that burning rubber?

 

[alkemyst]

FWIW I don't aspire to anything beyond 300-400 WHP in my Camry. I'd be happy with 300 WHP which is "just" an engine swap, fuel system, and boost controller away on a 3rd gen 3S. Then again I know it's just for giggles and that I always have the Cobra when the toy car isn't enough to tickle my balls. I probably wouldn't be happy with a 300 WHP Camry if it was my only vehicle.

I don't get guys that get a DD and then make it get about as crappy mileage as their street toy.

 

[alkemyst]

Also while horsepower and weight have a big weight, some cars do more with less due to better gearing and even aerodynamics.

 

[exdeath]

I don't get guys that get a DD and then make it get about as crappy mileage as their street toy.

Gas mileage is at the bottom of the list of reasons I have a dedicated beater/work vehicle.

 

[exdeath]

Back to topic, you have any IRS mods OP? I've heard the stock GTO IRS is just as bad or worse with wheel hop as the stock Cobra IRS. What I like to call the soft rubber bunny delete.

 

[alkemyst]

I smell circular logic. Or is that burning rubber?

I was able to spin tires on a 1988 or so Mitsubishi Precis I owned between selling one car and buying another for 3-4 months.

On a manual car, spinning tires really doesn't mean much.

 

[alkemyst]

Seriously though, if I'm going through the trouble of heavily modifing a car like Zivic has done with his Z, I wouldn't settle for 400 HP knowing that every factory stock Mustang 5.0, GTO 6.0, base C6, G8, Camaro SS, SRT8, etc is pushing that much from the factory and is just a tune and intake away from the same at the wheels.

Within the last couple years only...I expect this to die soon though. The green police will soon strike this stuff down and the automakers are already on the crest of the wave delivering true performance hybrids and electrics.

If I'm going to go through the trouble of building an engine and doing a custom turbo setup, the sky is the limit, I'm not going to be happy with "just enough" and only pulling a fender on a brand new stock 5.0 with temp tags. If you're going to mod a car, you need to aim ahead of the competition for the foreseeable future, not just be happy with holding your ground.

Nice, if you have an unlimited bankroll...but at the same time why would you be in a Camry as a DD? I can accept the terminator as a track car for even someone with a lot of money...it's a pony car done right on all levels.

 

[exdeath]

why would you be in a Camry as a DD?

Cheap, reliable as a fork, parts everywhere, unassuming, can work on it blind folded, and more or less expendable.

For me it goes a little further that it was my first car that I've just kept all these years and it has never let me down and I have a small guilt complex with the idea of abandoning it or throwing it away.

Anything nicer like a M3 that would be a nice middle ground between the two and I'm in the same boat, it wouldn't be driven in monsoon weather or working where it would see short stop/start type driving all day, etc. Doesn't matter what else I have, a true beater is still required.

Nice, if you have an unlimited bankroll...

Unlimited or not, if you're putting a built motor and turbos into a newly purchased ~$20k car like a 350Z, you're already pretty commited. Might as well go to the finish line and not settle for holding your ground with stock cars that are most likely to be gunning for you, that's all I'm saying. Zivic needs to fix his traction issue once and for all and be happy that hardly anything new can touch him, not second guess himself for going too far and thinking that "just enough" would have been better.

 

[caniroc]

Back to topic, you have any IRS mods OP? I've heard the stock GTO IRS is just as bad or worse with wheel hop as the stock Cobra IRS. What I like to call the soft rubber bunny delete.

Yes it is an IRS with a 3:46 gear. Alot of guys seem to have problem with them hopping--For me I have never experienced it in mine and Ive had mine for 2 and a half years. At the track I run Mickey Thompson drag radials and last winter i put a 3600 stall in it. Ive only been to the track once since the new stall has been in (it was opening day at the prep was terrible) but still got a 1.66 60 ft with no hop.
I think in the fall with better weather and a better track it may touch high 11's.

 

[Zivic]

Unlimited or not, if you're putting a built motor and turbos into a newly purchased ~$20k car like a 350Z, you're already pretty commited. Might as well go to the finish line and not settle for holding your ground with stock cars that are most likely to be gunning for you, that's all I'm saying. Zivic needs to fix his traction issue once and for all and be happy that hardly anything new can touch him, not second guess himself for going too far and thinking that "just enough" would have been better.

I started building up my car with less than 10K miles on it......

I have good suspenson, a brembo 355mm bbk and all the other supporting hardware, but the car is still very HP biased. I hesitate to say I may miss the more balanced feel of the car when it was stockish (the grass is always greener mentality). On my tuner's dyno, a stock Z puts down about 235-240 whp, mine made I think 551 -> we are talking 230% more than factory

One thing I want to note that a mustang and vette are a bit more than a tune away from making comparable HP to my setup. for example the new boss 302 mustang is rated at 440-ish bhp..... making about 380-ish to the wheels? this is quite a ways away from mid 500's. Probably easier to get to on those cars than my Z was, but you started a lot further along as well.



I could have squeezed another 50-75 hp out of my setup with the turbos, but I needed race fuel and there was no reason for that. Now, I am contemplating a retune on E85, but I don't need any more power. and to get retuned means a trip down to chicago and I am not a big fan of making the trip - the closest tuner than has the ability to tune my EMS is in chicago.

 

[Zivic]

Yes it is an IRS with a 3:46 gear. Alot of guys seem to have problem with them hopping--For me I have never experienced it in mine and Ive had mine for 2 and a half years. At the track I run Mickey Thompson drag radials and last winter i put a 3600 stall in it. Ive only been to the track once since the new stall has been in (it was opening day at the prep was terrible) but still got a 1.66 60 ft with no hop.
I think in the fall with better weather and a better track it may touch high 11's.

mid 11's would be doable no?

I haven't really had time to take my car to the track -> I am a farmer and driving season = work season. Anyways, a fellow Z owner I met at my shop in chicago ran a 10.43 with about 100 less HP than my setup, but same turbo conversion. I think it was at about 440 hp. I would think your car has low 11's in it, no?