Widow of Prof. Derrick Bell speaks out against attacks by Fox News and Sarah Palin

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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so again - you used the blanket of 'he supported Affirmative Action programs' without details, and that was sufficient in your mind to call him a racist - but you would "have to look at each specific type" to see what it does to be sure?

It is understood that we are talking about the United States when talking about a Professor in the United States. Did you think we were discussing Rhodesia when talking about a Professor in the United States?

EDIT: and stop pretending I said something I did not. Your use of single quotes to pretend I said 'he supported Affirmative Action programs' is a lie. We both know this, so stop lying about what I said. If you are going to quote me, actually quote me.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
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ok Cyber - I'll ask the question again - what is it about Professor Bell that makes you think he was a racist? I'm pretty sure you said it was because he supported Affirmative Action, which I pointed out is a pretty broad brush to paint someone as racist with.

You do realize -that in the United States - at one point in our not-too distant past - a past that Professor Bell lived in - Black people were basically treated as 2nd class citizens, or worse - and many of those same sentiments still hold true in more than a few areas of this country?

We can argue about the merits of Affirmative action all we want - but the intent of Affirmative action was, and in many places may still be - necessary. If you can't get over that, then you, sir, are the racist, not Professor Bell.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
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Biff - I think you know better. Far too often in this country - people believe the loudest voice, not the most accurate one.

If Palin is so insignificant, why do you think Fox hired her, or keeps her on the air?

You can poke fun at the polling of GOP voters in Alabama and Mississippi all you want, but it's not like those are make-believe results. Sadly, voters on both sides are very un-informed.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
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the point biff is that Sarah Palin goes and calls this guy a racist - and because Obama "omg he hugged a racist" this is a story?

What basis is there for this guy to be called a racist?

I'm not coming to Obama's defense here, I'm coming to the defense of Professor Bell

What I find funny is people actually think Palin is credible since she is barely bright enough to pound sand. ;)
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
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Biff - I think you know better. Far too often in this country - people believe the loudest voice, not the most accurate one.

If Palin is so insignificant, why do you think Fox hired her, or keeps her on the air?

You can poke fun at the polling of GOP voters in Alabama and Mississippi all you want, but it's not like those are make-believe results. Sadly, voters on both sides are very un-informed.

The loudest voice can't be Fox News given the landscape of media out there. I hardly doubt the left media has much to worry about there.

So Palin isn't insignificant? News to me. She is absolutely worthless as far as I am concerned and I'm far from liberal.

I never questioned the results of those polls. Polling less than 1300 people in two states somehow is representative of nearly 100 million people in 50 states. Are you for real? That poll, although perhaps accurate for the small amount that were polled, is worthless on any other level.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Cyber - I have yet to see any evidence that would entitle anyone to call Professor Bell a racist.

He supported Affirmative Action, a racist system which promotes some over others based on the color of their skin alone. What would you call someone who supports racist programs?

So... Obama stood by Prof. Bell, who supported Affirmative Action..... Is that it?

Yes it makes him a racist... but so are all the other Democrats... I guess that makes Obama a... Democrat! :eek:

You're right, this isn't news.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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The loudest voice can't be Fox News given the landscape of media out there. I hardly doubt the left media has much to worry about there.

So Palin isn't insignificant? News to me. She is absolutely worthless as far as I am concerned and I'm far from liberal.

I never questioned the results of those polls. Polling less than 1300 people in two states somehow is representative of nearly 100 million people in 50 states. Are you for real? That poll, although perhaps accurate for the small amount that were polled, is worthless on any other level.

Fox and right wing radio is definately the loudest voice out there. Try to find a liberal show on AM talk radio, they almost don't exist at all. Look at the ratings Fox and rightwing talk radio receive.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
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Fox and right wing radio is definately the loudest voice out there. Try to find a liberal show on AM talk radio, they almost don't exist at all. Look at the ratings Fox and rightwing talk radio receive.

So much for being irrelevant then I guess. I listen to maybe 10 minutes of radio a month and it sure isn't AM.
 

FaaR

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2007
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He supported Affirmative Action, a racist system which promotes some over others based on the color of their skin alone. What would you call someone who supports racist programs?
What do you call all of the white people who wrote that bill, and all of those white people who voted it into law? Self-hating racists??? lol...

You're not making sense.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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http://www.answers.com/topic/derrick-bell

Some information.

Having already generated much attention among progressive academics and activists, Bell reentered the debate over hiring practices at Harvard in 1990, when he vowed to take an unpaid leave of absence until the school appointed a black woman professor to its tenured faculty. At the time, of the university's 60 tenured professors, only three were black and five were women. The school had never had a black woman on the tenured staff.

Students held vigils and protests in solidarity with the man who would sacrifice $120,000 in his fight to diversify the campus. Critics, including faculty members, called Bell's methods counterproductive, and Harvard administration officials insisted they had already made enormous inroads in hiring: 45 percent of the faculty hired in the last decade was either female or black. They had been trying to recruit a black women, the officials said, but the pool of black women scholars was very small, and the interuniversity competition for the candidates was fierce. Besides, the black woman Bell wanted Harvard to hire was a visiting professor at the school, and visiting professors, according to a three-year-old rule, were ineligible for tenure.

To some observers, Bell's lament about Harvard amounted to a call for the school to lower its academic qualifications in the quest to mold a diversified faculty on the campus. But Bell argued that critics of diversity invariably underplay the value of a faculty that is broadly reflective of society, and, more importantly, that the credentials demanded by institutions like Harvard perpetuate the domination of white, well-off, middle-aged men. As he commented in the Boston Globe, "Let's look at a few qualifications beyond grades--say civil rights experience ... that might allow [a chance at a tenured teaching position for] more folks here who, like me, maybe didn't go to the best law school but instead have made a real difference in the world."

Bell's writings reflect the anger and disappointment of a man whose dramatic protest tactics, at least in recent years, have failed to bring about a desired change. The allegorical "chronicles" in 1987's And We Are Not Saved: The Elusive Quest for Racial Justice and his 1992 publication, Faces at the Bottom of the Well: The Permanence of Racism attempt to expose the transparency of nominal, virtually meaningless civil rights advances. "Racism is not a passing phase but a permanent feature of American life," the New York Times summarized. "Despite all the change over the years, [Bell maintains that] blacks are worse off and more subjugated than at any time since slavery."

In a conclusion that is particularly grim for a crusading civil rights lawyer, Bell claims that legal victories are hollow if society's mind-set remains unchanged. He often refers to the Brown v. Board of Education case as an example, claiming that the 1954 school desegregation decision by the Supreme Court was neutered when whites began to abandon public schools and flee the cities. In general, Bell judges that civil rights laws and decisions are worthless because America's white-dominated society continues to undermine black advancement while allowing racism to prevail.

One of the vignettes in Faces at the Bottom of the Well centers on a new black "homeland" for African Americans. Afrolantica, an island rising from the sea, is surrounded by air that is breathable only by people of color. Controversy arises in the story over whether blacks should move there to escape racial injustice. "The Space Traders," another tale in the metaphorical collection, offers harsh insights into the perceived worth of cultural diversity in the United States: in the story, aliens use the African American population as a pawn in a scheme that would free the United States from its economic and environmental woes. Though critics generally appreciated the sober vision of race offered by Bell in Faces at the Bottom of the Well, some argued that the author minimizes real advances made in the struggle for civil rights over the past four decades.

In 1992, Bell, who had taken a visiting professorship at New York University, was formally removed from the Harvard faculty. He maintained a high profile in the news arena throughout the year, though, as he negotiated a deal with filmmakers Reginald and Warrington Hudlin (of House Party fame) to adapt "The Space Traders" into a motion picture. Bell also lent his legal expertise to a PBS-TV project on the Declaration of Independence.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/derrick-bell#ixzz1p0qg8aYy
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
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Biff-you are assuming the most recent poll of Alabama and Mississippi GOP is the only evidence of widespread GOP belief in birther and Obama is a Muslim. That's only the most recent survey. Rather than list the dozens of such polls and surveys I instead invite you to Google both issues.

Firm Republican belief in outright, proven falsehoods is widespread and not limited to some backwoods Deep South locales. And while you may not partake of the GOP echo machine far too many others do. It is important to stand up to and unmask propoganda.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
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I always find it idiotic to think that if someone associates, knows, looks for advice on things from someone that it automatically means you believe everything the other person believes or says. I also find it sad when someone who supports the Democratic or Republican party on one issue, then even if they don't agree will try to defend them on an issue where they don't agree.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
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It's hard to fix an upbringing where ignorance and stupid is supported. Which is why you get these states where the 60%+ don't believe in evolution, or 80+% don't believe Obama is a Christan. Facts and reality don't matter to these people, they are happy to be ignorant and stupid and simply believe what ever they want rather than what is real.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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There is nothing to read, only videos. I asked because the Wright this was beaten to death...he is a racist and Obama leaned on his as his spiritual advisor for decades. These are well known facts and not worthy of continued discussion. I had hoped someone would say what is in the videos...but that did not happen.


EDIT: Apparently is it about a racist named Prof. Bell. Here are some writings from him:

Screen-Shot-2012-03-07-at-3.55.03-PM.png



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/rev...-prof-obama-raves-about-in-new-harvard-video/




So it appears that while Prof. Bell was a racist, Obama did not necessarily agree with him. Unlike the Rev. Wright issue, this one is nothing.


Supporting affirmative action makes someone a racist?
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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I don't understand guilt by association in general. I understand it less so in this particular case. Bell was a liberal who believed in affirmative action. While I don't support affirmative action currently (I supported it as an experiment to last one generation), I also don't think supporting it is inherently racist.

But let's assume that merely supporting affirmative action is racist. Obama himself supported affirmative action. Why is the criticism then that he associated himself with someone else who also supported it? The proper criticism would be that he supported it himself.

I don't understand why this "Bell" connection is so damning in and of itself. Lots of people supported affirmative action in those days. Lots of people still do.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
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Supporting affirmative action makes someone a racist?

Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

Affirmative Action is an action or policy favoring those who tend to suffer from discrimination.

How is affirmative action not the same thing? You are singling out people based on inherent different traits and then discriminating based on them.

Yes racism is thought of as negative whereas affirmative action is thought of as positive. Discrimination by definition alone is neither good or bad. It simply means to make a distinction. Its how you apply that distinction that caries a negative or positive connotation.

In this light racism and affirmative action are both discrimination. Affirmative action can be just as damaging as racism since it teaches people to discriminate. More so it teaches people that they deserve favoritism just because they are inherently different.

Affirmative action, like many things, sounds good and works well on paper but as soon as you add the human element, it fails.
 

IBMer

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2000
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0
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How is affirmative action not the same thing? You are singling out people based on inherent different traits and then discriminating based on them.

Yes racism is thought of as negative whereas affirmative action is thought of as positive. Discrimination by definition alone is neither good or bad. It simply means to make a distinction. Its how you apply that distinction that caries a negative or positive connotation.

In this light racism and affirmative action are both discrimination. Affirmative action can be just as damaging as racism since it teaches people to discriminate. More so it teaches people that they deserve favoritism just because they are inherently different.

Affirmative action, like many things, sounds good and works well on paper but as soon as you add the human element, it fails.

lol... Affirmative action is more of a forced integration that it is anything close to Racism.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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How is affirmative action not the same thing? You are singling out people based on inherent different traits and then discriminating based on them.

Yes racism is thought of as negative whereas affirmative action is thought of as positive. Discrimination by definition alone is neither good or bad. It simply means to make a distinction. Its how you apply that distinction that caries a negative or positive connotation.

In this light racism and affirmative action are both discrimination. Affirmative action can be just as damaging as racism since it teaches people to discriminate. More so it teaches people that they deserve favoritism just because they are inherently different.

Affirmative action, like many things, sounds good and works well on paper but as soon as you add the human element, it fails.

I actually agree with you, that affirmative action is discrimination. And I think it can engender resentment, and also engender racism amongst whites as a result. I do not, however, think affirmative action is motivated by animus towards white people. For that reason, I think it's problematic to label it "racism."
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
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I actually agree with you, that affirmative action is discrimination. And I think it can engender resentment, and also engender racism amongst whites as a result. I do not, however, think affirmative action is motivated by animus towards white people. For that reason, I think it's problematic to label it "racism."

I agree its not about being against white people, its white people feeling guilty about being racist themselves or other white people being racist.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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So much for being irrelevant then I guess. I listen to maybe 10 minutes of radio a month and it sure isn't AM.

I suspect most of your news comes from chain emails & Fox Nation, but that's just me...

Fox is rebroadcast by many affiliates, meaning you don't need cable. Here in Denver, it's channel 31...
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
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I think some people are putting their own interpretation on affirmative action.

The intent of the executive order issued by JFK - was to ensure that if a black person applied for a position, he was considered on the same merits that a white person would be measured by, not singled out or excluded because they were black.

The term used, particularly in college admissions, is different, where you say you have to have X number of black students admitted, even if their scores are lower - that isn't the right way, or quite frankly the intent, of affirmative action.

Regardless - Palin calling Bell a racist is ridiculous, as is Fox trying to make this some kind of story. Defending them, or saying their voice doesn't count for something, is wrong no matter how you spin it.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
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I suspect most of your news comes from chain emails & Fox Nation, but that's just me...

Fox is rebroadcast by many affiliates, meaning you don't need cable. Here in Denver, it's channel 31...

I watch maybe an hour of TV a day and even then its mostly Netflix. I haven't a clue of the Fox affiliate here in Des Moines. The time I spend on the internet is mostly AT, gaming, and....nevermind. :$ Rest assure, I have no idea what you are talking about. Those chain emails, when I get them, they are deleted immediately without reading. I am in the mood for another virus and that's about all those things are good for.

So keep on suspecting all you want but you have me far from figured out. But in your warped liberal mind, I can be whatever you want. Fantasize away.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
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I think some people are putting their own interpretation on affirmative action.

The intent of the executive order issued by JFK - was to ensure that if a black person applied for a position, he was considered on the same merits that a white person would be measured by, not singled out or excluded because they were black.

The term used, particularly in college admissions, is different, where you say you have to have X number of black students admitted, even if their scores are lower - that isn't the right way, or quite frankly the intent, of affirmative action.

Regardless - Palin calling Bell a racist is ridiculous, as is Fox trying to make this some kind of story. Defending them, or saying their voice doesn't count for something, is wrong no matter how you spin it.

Just too bad you can't make people do or think a certain way. Like I said, it works on paper, but not at all when people are thrown into the equation. There is no way to enforce this except to force people to hire a certain mix which has been the application of it and why its a failure. If you just tell people they have to, they can find an excuse not to that's still legal like. Of course, in the mind of a liberal if you make a rule/law people without a doubt always follow it. Look at gun control laws, they make sure, without a doubt criminals don't have access to firearms amiright? LMAO
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
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the folks in Alabama and Mississippi ate this up

for the rest of the people with an IQ over 50, not so much


Sarah Palin called the guy racist based on what exactly?

Based on his espousal of critical race theory.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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If you can't get over that, then you, sir, are the racist, not Professor Bell.

:D Of course! If I do not support racist programs, I am a racist. :awe:

Red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right, and which is an illusion....