Why you might want to skip college and go to trade school.

[alkemyst]

I don't think it matters much for people like your son if they go in to business or skilled trades. They will be successful regardless. Similarly, if a person isn't cut out for college they most likely aren't going to cut it in trade school either.

It's why I don't get a lot of the discussion that sometimes surrounds this topic. Work/occupations are pretty much all the same. If you can grasp the big picture you will do well.

fuck bitches, get paid

 

[Eug]

"$28/hr isn't exactly a lot of money." The median weekly salary for 20-24 year old age group: "Young earners in the 20-to-24-year-old age range earned a median salary of $446 a week in 2010, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics." (that was on an article that didn't provide a reference.) Or, look at this chart: http://finance.townhall.com/columni...-income-percentile-ranking-n1712430/page/full So, while $28/hour is relative, for someone in their early 20's, well, wtf are you talking about? But, I forgot, this is ATOT where everyone has 6 figure incomes. $28/hour, not living in a major metropolitan area, with a job that doesn't require a college degree is a damn good income for someone in their early 20's.

Exactly.

Like I said, it's decent, esp. for someone in his 20s, not living in a major metropolitan area, and without a university degree (ie. lots of caveats), and I would have been happy to make that in my 20s, but the number of $28/hr itself is not exactly impressive in the greater scheme of things. Also, your original post said he made $96000 the first full year. Well, that's with hardcore overtime, so in some ways pretty misleading. That would be much more impressive with a normal work week. That would mean somewhere between $45-50 per hour with a 1950-2080 hours-per-year calculation.

Furthermore, that is not even the norm AFAIK for an apprentice electrician. Most will make much less than that, even in metropolitan centres.

 

[Humpy]

fuck bitches, get paid

I love that for some people that is the big picture, and they are successful at it.

 

[alkemyst]

Exactly.

Like I said, it's decent, esp. for someone in his 20s, not living in a major metropolitan area, and without a university degree (ie. lots of caveats), and I would have been happy to make that in my 20s, but the number of $28/hr itself is not exactly impressive in the greater scheme of things. Also, your original post said he made $96000 the first full year. Well, that's with hardcore overtime, so in some ways pretty misleading. That would be much more impressive with a normal work week. That would mean somewhere between $45-50 per hour with a 1950-2080 hours-per-year calculation.

Furthermore, that is not even the norm AFAIK for an apprentice electrician. Most will make much less than that, even in metropolitan centres.

easy math: $15 = $30k, $25 = $50k, $50 = $100k etc

 

[dave_the_nerd]

What trade schools are you thinking of?

Community colleges (typically state run) that offer job-training programs and vocational training.

Welding, ASE certifications, whatever.

 

[Colt45]

The 'job creators' are always yammering about a shortage of trades in western canada, but it's bullshit.

What they really mean is there is a shortage of tradesmen willing to work for minimum wage.

At the same time, no one wants to take on apprentices. Good luck then bros.

 

[alkemyst]

Community colleges (typically state run) that offer job-training programs and vocational training.

Welding, ASE certifications, whatever.

Those courses are state colleges aren't always that much cheaper than tech schools and sometimes more expensive.

'Not-For-Profit' isn't exactly equal to low cost.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Community colleges (typically state run) that offer job-training programs and vocational training.

Welding, ASE certifications, whatever.

best way to go. Make sure you align credits so you can transfer to university in the future.

Trust me, you WILL want this.

I would stay stay away from trade schools that offer no degree (certificate). They are too expensive and Comm College offers as much experience if not more.

Oh, I see what you're getting at - you're thinking of "trade schools" like ITT Tech, or National American University, or any of those other for-profit certification mills.

Those don't even count as schools, as far as I'm concerned.

That's correct. Well they are schools and they get people's foot in the door but just WAY too expensive. Some run more than 1 year of University. Not worth it.

Don't ask how I know.....

 

[Scotteq]

Didn't read the whole thread...

But I'd like to point out that, generally speaking, the work done by Tradesmen can't be sent overseas. Plumbers, Pipefitters, Electricians, Ironworkers, Carpenters... The job is where the work is: Here in the US.

 

[MiniDoom]

Yeah, cuz by that logic, if you don't go to or finish university, you will be the next Bill Gates/Steve Jobs.

P.S. Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed College, and Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard.

Not at all. I'm just stating that a college degree isn't synonymous with success. Some of the most successful people i know don't have a college degree and some friends I have with college degrees aren't doing shit.
I think it's a rather silly policy for a company to take since there are so many real world examples of how they could potentially be denying the brightest talent for the lack of a piece of paper. I would absolutely hire a proven and experienced prospective employee without a degree over a book smart recently graduated college kid. My employer is in the business of generating revenue and I want the best employee for the job regardless of their experiences 10-20+ years ago.

 

[blake0812]

People should get certificates, like I did for CompTIA.

 

[JumBie]

Canada has been saying for years "We need more trade workers!", "Get into the trades", "find out how to apply for trade school grants and credits". Then you look at the news and what do you see? "Trade workers cant find work" Yeah...I take any of this trade bullshit with a grain of salt.

 

[blake0812]

Canada has been saying for years "We need more trade workers!", "Get into the trades", "find out how to apply for trade school grants and credits". Then you look at the news and what do you see? "Trade workers cant find work" Yeah...I take any of this trade bullshit with a grain of salt.

The news is always shady. I barely watch it because it's all bias nowadays.

 

[Insomniator]

Everyone does everything differently and has different skills. Some just can't hack it no matter what they do while others will become millionaires with or without college.

Hopefully by the time HS is over you have SOME idea of what you're interested in and hopefully that is something you can make money on.

Going to law school just because your parents told you to is a bad idea, and so is skipping college for a random trade you don't care about because you just don't want to pay for college.

 

[unokitty]

New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

For the first time in history, the number of jobless workers age 25 and up who have attended some college now exceeds the ranks of those who settled for a high school diploma or less.

College doesn't seem to have the value that it had ten or twenty years ago.

For many young people the advice offered here, Community College or working for a year, or three, would seem to be prudent.

Working now, putting money in the bank, and going to school when a person is a little older sounds like a good plan for many people.

I don't see a conflict between work and college. And I certainly think that a young person that works for a few years and then goes to college has many more options than a young person that starts college, drops out, and finds out he has thousands of dollars in educational loans to payoff...

Not to mention the educational options that a young 22 year old coming out of the Air Force with the GI bill and a 2 year degree from the Community College of the Air Force would have...


Uno

 

[ThinClient]

After graduating, I found that the trade school I went to was full of shit and taught a lot of false information.

 

[DrPizza]

Exactly.

Like I said, it's decent, esp. for someone in his 20s, not living in a major metropolitan area, and without a university degree (ie. lots of caveats), and I would have been happy to make that in my 20s, but the number of $28/hr itself is not exactly impressive in the greater scheme of things. Also, your original post said he made $96000 the first full year. Well, that's with hardcore overtime, so in some ways pretty misleading. That would be much more impressive with a normal work week. That would mean somewhere between $45-50 per hour with a 1950-2080 hours-per-year calculation.

Furthermore, that is not even the norm AFAIK for an apprentice electrician. Most will make much less than that, even in metropolitan centres.

"it's decent" You and Alky both earn larger than average salaries, and seem COMPLETELY oblivious to how much people outside your circle of friends earn. Look at my link. Look at the median individual income, and look at the average individual income. $28/hour is significantly above both, without any overtime at all. (And, as I said above, for your calculation, a lot of weeks, he was earning $56/hr.) Further, all the apprentices in the union (in this state) make the same hourly rate, and move up rapidly after every step (about a $2/hr raise every 6 months over the first four years.)

You two seem to be looking at just a small handful of fields and are completely oblivious that the vast majority of college grads with a 4 year degree start at much less than $28/hour.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Those courses are state colleges aren't always that much cheaper than tech schools and sometimes more expensive.

'Not-For-Profit' isn't exactly equal to low cost.

Generalities vs. specifics. On the average, public CCs are a lot cheaper, but there are always exceptions.

That said:

Tuition expenses can vary greatly, depending on the type of two-year institution you hope to attend. In 2009, the average tuition at a public two-year college was $2,156. Average tuition at a private not-for-profit two-year college was $12,725, while tuition at a private for-profit two-year college was $13,858.

If you went to a state school, don't forget to thank a taxpayer.

(Thanks!)

 

[Eug]

Not at all. I'm just stating that a college degree isn't synonymous with success. Some of the most successful people i know don't have a college degree and some friends I have with college degrees aren't doing shit.

Of course, but there is definitely a correlation between level of education and financial success.

I think it's a rather silly policy for a company to take since there are so many real world examples of how they could potentially be denying the brightest talent for the lack of a piece of paper. I would absolutely hire a proven and experienced prospective employee without a degree over a book smart recently graduated college kid. My employer is in the business of generating revenue and I want the best employee for the job regardless of their experiences 10-20+ years ago.

I don't think it's that silly... at least when looking at entry level positions for certain types of positions. My limited experience is that the full gamut of idiot to smart exists in people with university degrees, and the full gamut of idiot to smart also exists in people without university degrees. But on average, for many types of jobs, one just gets a better quality of candidate if one of the requirements is a degree. ie. The average is a notch higher, even if there is considerable overlap.

"it's decent" You and Alky both earn larger than average salaries, and seem COMPLETELY oblivious to how much people outside your circle of friends earn. Look at my link. Look at the median individual income, and look at the average individual income. $28/hour is significantly above both, without any overtime at all. (And, as I said above, for your calculation, a lot of weeks, he was earning $56/hr.) Further, all the apprentices in the union (in this state) make the same hourly rate, and move up rapidly after every step (about a $2/hr raise every 6 months over the first four years.)

You two seem to be looking at just a small handful of fields and are completely oblivious that the vast majority of college grads with a 4 year degree start at much less than $28/hour.

Not oblivious. Just not hugely impressed.

It's a good salary... for the level of education. Our point is that if you have a desire to make more, you might want to pursue more education.

It will take you longer to get that higher salary, and that isn't even guaranteed of course. It will also cost some up front money, although how much depends on the path taken.

 

[alkemyst]

"it's decent" You and Alky both earn larger than average salaries, and seem COMPLETELY oblivious to how much people outside your circle of friends earn. Look at my link. Look at the median individual income, and look at the average individual income. $28/hour is significantly above both, without any overtime at all. (And, as I said above, for your calculation, a lot of weeks, he was earning $56/hr.) Further, all the apprentices in the union (in this state) make the same hourly rate, and move up rapidly after every step (about a $2/hr raise every 6 months over the first four years.)

You two seem to be looking at just a small handful of fields and are completely oblivious that the vast majority of college grads with a 4 year degree start at much less than $28/hour.

We are talking educated people though so that 'median' is moot.

We were just saying someone 'makes' $100k and it isn't qualified because they are working 80 hour work weeks is the issue.

If one is willing to sacrifice that much time, there are lots of jobs like that.

It's like the Domino's guy saying he makes $50k a year because he can pull down $25/hr on a fri/sat night.

 

[alkemyst]

After graduating, I found that the trade school I went to was full of shit and taught a lot of false information.

Probably the reason Vdubchaos is recommending trade schools yet won't trust a shop with his beaters even.

 

[Imp]

The 'job creators' are always yammering about a shortage of trades in western canada, but it's bullshit.

What they really mean is there is a shortage of tradesmen willing to work for minimum wage.

At the same time, no one wants to take on apprentices. Good luck then bros.

Canada has been saying for years "We need more trade workers!", "Get into the trades", "find out how to apply for trade school grants and credits". Then you look at the news and what do you see? "Trade workers cant find work" Yeah...I take any of this trade bullshit with a grain of salt.

I posted this earlier, but posting again. See why "Canada" "needs" more trade workers:

"How Kijiji's data threw off Ottawa’s math on skills shortages":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle17675622/

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Airframe inspectors and mechanics / HVAC and Refrigeration workers can find high paying jobs just about anywhere in the country. There are lots of other trades that are in high demand in specific areas but, the ones I mentioned seem to be wanted everywhere.

 

[Mixolydian]

Delivery driver. $80k-90k/year. No college degree necessary.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Delivery driver. $80k-90k/year. No college degree necessary.

Are we talking long haul truckers, or pizza delivery guys who sell drugs on the side?