Why Windows 7 is bad

[Red Squirrel]

In my experience, more than clicking the shutdown button in Win7 by accident...

I find the command line is generally much safer than GUI as GUI (especially when remoted in) depends a lot on physical accuracy and it's easier to click the wrong thing especially with lag or with cat attacking the hand or stepping on the keyboard. With command line you actually have to type it.

However there's always the classic mistake of doing the command on the wrong server. Or hitting the up key and enter too fast forgetting the last time you remoted that server, you rebooted it. Been there done that.

"Ok time to turn off this test VM"
shutdown

"Weird, why is my website down. FUUUuuuuuuuuuuu"

 

[Red Squirrel]

To be fair to the OP, I do think MS is at fault to some extent for making it that easy to accidentally do. The server and previous versions at least have a confirmation prompt, but from the sound of the OP, in 7 there is no prompt, so as soon as you hit the button it just shuts down. I can't confirm this for myself though as I don't have a windows 7 machine handy to test on. But from the little that I've used it I'm pretty sure it is in fact the case.

 

[Ketchup]

To be fair to the OP, I do think MS is at fault to some extent for making it that easy to accidentally do. The server and previous versions at least have a confirmation prompt, but from the sound of the OP, in 7 there is no prompt, so as soon as you hit the button it just shuts down. I can't confirm this for myself though as I don't have a windows 7 machine handy to test on. But from the little that I've used it I'm pretty sure it is in fact the case.

You could blame the people that set up the OS in the first place. On every Windows 7 system I have seen, the default is "Sleep." Someone would have had to go in and change the default button option to "Shut Down."

 

[Anteaus]

You could blame the people that set up the OS in the first place. On every Windows 7 system I have seen, the default is "Sleep." Someone would have had to go in and change the default button option to "Shut Down."

That's an OEM maker default. With a clean install off MS media, it defaults to Shutdown.

Anyways, if you look at the symptoms for the OP's "problem" it's less the control layout and more about lag introduced by a remote connection that caused the OP to inadvertently click shutdown, perhaps because the remote desktop is smaller than his native screen. It's possible that the largest offender here is the OP's internet connection, because he claimed that he clicked on the start menu and the system registered a Shutdown command. That's a rather large disparity of intention.

 

[piasabird]

All problems go back to User Error. First they install junkware and games with spyware and 3rd party browsers, download images and sreensavers that dont work. Then they call the helpdesk and say something like I just turned it on and nothing works.

Or my favorite:

I dont know how the software works, I just move the mouse . . . and it works.

It is Microsoft's fault because they made the OS User Friendly.

 

[HeXen]

That's an OEM maker default. With a clean install off MS media, it defaults to Shutdown.

Anyways, if you look at the symptoms for the OP's "problem" it's less the control layout and more about lag introduced by a remote connection that caused the OP to inadvertently click shutdown, perhaps because the remote desktop is smaller than his native screen. It's possible that the largest offender here is the OP's internet connection, because he claimed that he clicked on the start menu and the system registered a Shutdown command. That's a rather large disparity of intention.

Command line when remoting solves that problem. Worst case you accidentally add a letter or something.

 

[cheez]

A good repair guy never uses the GUI to do those kinds of things when remote. YOU accidented, not anyone else, not the machine...YOU. So you error and suddenly you blame the OS for all your troubles and woes....starts to sound like noob help and support threads at PC Pitstop forums.

Without the GUI how am I gonna troubleshoot / diagnose the user's problem with the document orientation and formatting issue in Excel? GUI will allow me to show what she is experience graphically, and also be able to record sessions. You must be newb.. ha ha

To be fair to the OP, I do think MS is at fault to some extent for making it that easy to accidentally do. The server and previous versions at least have a confirmation prompt, but from the sound of the OP, in 7 there is no prompt, so as soon as you hit the button it just shuts down. I can't confirm this for myself though as I don't have a windows 7 machine handy to test on. But from the little that I've used it I'm pretty sure it is in fact the case.

Thanks for the support.

You could blame the people that set up the OS in the first place. On every Windows 7 system I have seen, the default is "Sleep." Someone would have had to go in and change the default button option to "Shut Down."

Ketchup, you may need to start checking more computers. With our computers, with Win7, it gives you Shut down button when you go to Start from taskbar... and if you click that it shuts down. You don't sound experienced with very many PC's.


cheez

 

[Ketchup]

Ketchup, you may need to start checking more computers. With our computers, with Win7, it gives you Shut down button when you go to Start from taskbar... and if you click that it shuts down. You don't sound experienced with very many PC's.

cheez

Which appears to be more than you, apparently. Did you ever think "our computers" might actually not represent every computer in existence?

 

[cheez]

See that little tinnie winnie right arrow next to HUGE Shut down button? You have to concentrate and use your high-end super accurate mouse to click that arrow thingie to select Log off, restart, or whatever you want to do. If your hand shakes, forget about it. This is design flaw guys. Accept it.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

 

[Nothinman]

See that little tinnie winnie right arrow next to HUGE Shut down button? You have to concentrate and use your high-end super accurate mouse to click that arrow thingie to select Log off, restart, or whatever you want to do. If your hand shakes, forget about it. This is design flaw guys. Accept it.

Or just hit the Windows key then the right arrow key twice?

 

[Red Squirrel]

See that little tinnie winnie right arrow next to HUGE Shut down button? You have to concentrate and use your high-end super accurate mouse to click that arrow thingie to select Log off, restart, or whatever you want to do. If your hand shakes, forget about it. This is design flaw guys. Accept it.

That actually does look like a pretty bad design. You have to be an expert FPS sniper to be able to get that, especially when remoted in and it's choppy. They should make the whole button pop a confirmation box with radio buttons that you select what you want the computer to do. This sounds oddly familiar... wonder why they got rid of it.

 

[cheez]

Or just hit the Windows key then the right arrow key twice?

I did but my own Start menu in desktop comes up. Not the desktop in remote.

That actually does look like a pretty bad design. You have to be an expert FPS sniper to be able to get that, especially when remoted in and it's choppy. They should make the whole button pop a confirmation box with radio buttons that you select what you want the computer to do. This sounds oddly familiar... wonder why they got rid of it.

That's exactly what I mean... thanks for agreeing with me.

Good question. Microsoft just trying to find ways to give me pain.


cheez

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah I think the others are not understanding that remoting into PCs is sometimes a vital part of tech support. What works ok when you are physically there may not work well when you are remoted in.


And yeah hot keys tend to not work that well when remoted in as some get picked up by your own PC. Usually the remote program will have an option to "send" certain keys though.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yeah I think the others are not understanding that remoting into PCs is sometimes a vital part of tech support. What works ok when you are physically there may not work well when you are remoted in.

Actually, I spend so much time RDPing into other computers that I've learned to position my cursor and wait for lag to catch up before I click on anything important.

"Measure twice, cut once."

 

[Nothinman]

I did but my own Start menu in desktop comes up. Not the desktop in remote.

Roll your eyes all you want, but I tested in my Win7 VM and another host via RDP before posting. If that doesn't work for you then you've got more issues than just lag.

That's exactly what I mean... thanks for agreeing with me.

Good question. Microsoft just trying to find ways to give me pain.


cheez

If Red Squirrel is in your corner you should reevaluate your position immediately.

Yeah I think the others are not understanding that remoting into PCs is sometimes a vital part of tech support. What works ok when you are physically there may not work well when you are remoted in.


And yeah hot keys tend to not work that well when remoted in as some get picked up by your own PC. Usually the remote program will have an option to "send" certain keys though.

No, we understand just fine. I've been doing remote support in various ways for almost 2 decades now, and sadly still have to do desktop support on occasion, but I can't recall a single instance where I've shutdown a remote machine by accident. Virtually every remote control app sends keyboard shortcuts through just fine. I can think of a few that don't, with the most notable being VNC but VNC should be avoided at virtually all costs for many other reasons besides that anyway. But AFAIK arrow keys go through regardless, so in this case you could have clicked on the start button and then hit the right-arrow until the menu popped up.

I understand that accidents happen, but trying to blame MS for your mistake is so far out there that I'm incredulous that this could even be a serious post. Surely you have more pride than that. Right?

 

[Ketchup]

cheez, I think it's funny how you blame Microsoft for your not understanding how to operate a program that is not even made by Microsoft.

So I guess since it allows you to operate a Microsoft product, it is Microsoft's fault.

 

[Hugh Jass]

OP is a [wonderful person who continues to put me in awe].

/thread

Attacking other posters is going to make your career here short. Let's play nicely with others, okay?
-ViRGE

 

[Ketchup]

OP is a [wonderful person who continues to put me in awe].

/thread

Actually the thread seemed to end 4 days ago until you and I brought it back to life.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

I often remote into clients' machines and I need to logon as admin to do my work. To do that the user needs to log off. To do that, you gotta click a tinnie winnie little right arrow sign located RIGHT NEXT to SHUT DOWN button. It will give you the menu to select log off, restart, or whatever.. If you accidentally click shutdown button the whole PC will shut down, causing our productivity to go way down. This is actually still pretty hard task even if you are physically on the PC. Your hand must not shake. Your mouse has to be in fully working order, and no dirt, dust/ hair blocking the laser sensor. The traditional PS2 ball mouse would work but then the ball gets dirty quick and get sticky.

I agree with you that the design of that button can be further optimized to prevent user error.

However, given that, I never had any problems with that button myself. You need to get a better mouse if you have problems with clicking precisely while physically on the computer.

I am sorry that you have tremors in your hand. Must make clicking the right spots more difficult, especially with a dirty rolling ball mouse.

 

[uallas5]

See that little tinnie winnie right arrow next to HUGE Shut down button? You have to concentrate and use your high-end super accurate mouse to click that arrow thingie to select Log off, restart, or whatever you want to do. If your hand shakes, forget about it. This is design flaw guys. Accept it.

Right Click on the Start Ball and choose Properties. Change the default from Shutdown to Restart. Problem solved.

It's not a design flaw, it's an improvement over the old shutdown menu to improve efficiency by making the most used power option quick and easy to choose.

I like when it was added to Win7. I change this on many of my computers, on laptops it's usually Restart since I close the cover to sleep. On desktops it's usually Sleep or I leave it on Shutdown. In the OP's case I would change any computer being remoted into often to Restart.

 

[uallas5]

That's an OEM maker default. With a clean install off MS media, it defaults to Shutdown.

This is common with many OEMs, I hate it and change it whenever I remember. There's nothing worse than telling someone over the phone "Just hold in the Power Button, it will shut down. Yes I know it takes a while, but trust me it will shutdown" only to realize that they've just been putting the computer to sleep and waking it up repeatedly.

 

[Virgorising]

I ran into a lot of troubles...... because of this.

I remote in to a client's PC. it's Windows 7. I click Start on the taskbar. I meant to click something but it clicked "Shut down" button and the computer shut down. Client had no clue wtf is going on and left it turned off. An hour later eventually the client turned the computer on. My remote connection restored. I lost grand total of 2 hours for two clients!!! Bad bad feature! NAUGHTY!

:thumbsdown:

Not clear.....did this owe to being in a hurry or careless mousing? I like W7.....but I agree we have to use a little care re the shut down button and make sure we let the expansion menu open.

___________________________________________
Sorry, just read the above and see what happened. So that I reiterate, along with many other elements MS got right in XP....the shut down button changes in 7 are sad. But pls do not impugn all of Windows 7, when you get rid of the glut, i.e. the 8 bazllion foreign language fonts which are "system protected"......there is a way around that., and configure it to yr needs....it's kinda nice!!!!!

 

[Virgorising]

To be fair to the OP, I do think MS is at fault to some extent for making it that easy to accidentally do. The server and previous versions at least have a confirmation prompt, but from the sound of the OP, in 7 there is no prompt, so as soon as you hit the button it just shuts down. I can't confirm this for myself though as I don't have a windows 7 machine handy to test on. But from the little that I've used it I'm pretty sure it is in fact the case.

Again, I agree! Whyyyyy did they need an expansion menu to do other than shut down the system?? Answer is, they seem not to be able to think pragmatically and get form always follows function.

 

[Virgorising]

You clicked the wrong thing, then you didn't bother to call the client and tell them what was going on, you just waited for them to maybe do something about it?

Doesn't sound like Win7 is the problem here :/ There's only one person who's responsible for that lost two hours...

Is a little harsh, no? Besides......we are human and not perfect. And, given it is hotfix Tuesday re W7 with 8, count em 8...critical patches.....strikes me we have far fewer inherent and infinite flaws in need of patching than anything MS will ever write.