Why we should not consider lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18. *Thanks everyone. Please let this thread drop*

j0lly

Platinum Member
Jul 30, 2001
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It is debate time again for my Speech 111 class and the draw dictates that I debate this issue. Since I have no insight into what my opposition's main points are, below is what I have prepared after a quick brainstorm:



Arguments of Government: (THEM)

A. Freedom of Choice
B. You?re 18 and you can vote, buy cigarettes, and join the military why not drink
C. Educating on how to drink responsibly
D. The forbidden fruit
E. Moderate Amounts of Alcohol
F. Other countries drink at 18 or younger
G. The law doesn?t work right now at 21

II. Arguments of Opposition: (US)

A. Freedom of choice

1. Freedom of choice is regulated by laws
2. If we had no laws people would do what they wanted and not have any consequences
3. This law is not to prevent a freedom of choice but to regulate it because you can hurt somebody as a result of this freedom of choice
4. You are not the only one to take into consideration when you have a beer
5. When you get in a car and drive you are risking other people?s freedoms

B. You?re 18 and you can vote, buy cigarettes and join the military why not drink

1. When you're eighteen, you're not extremely mature.
2. You're just out of high school, and haven't had your driver's license very long . Because of this, you don't have enough driving experience to be able to even drive well sober , never mind drunk. And you know many peopole will not be driving sober, especially since they would have legal permission to drink.
3. At eighteen years old, your judgment isn't fully developed. You may think that your body can handle the alcohol, but it can't. You can get alcohol posioning much easier, and you aren't paying attention to how much you drink.
4. My last and strongest argument is that fact that this has already been tried, and it failed. During the Vietnam war, soldiers argued that if eighteen was old enough to be drafted, it was old enough to drink. The drinking age was lowered to eighteen, and it didn't work then. What makes people think it would work now? The only people who want the drinking age lowered are teenagers.
5. In conclusion, I can't see any reason to lower the drinking age to eighteen. it has been done, and failed. Why should we let it fail again?

C. Educating on how to drink responsibly

1. This would not only cost money to fund this new education reform, but it would take a long time to implement and this would cause further deaths
2. Lowering the drinking age will make alcohol more available to an even younger population, since younger people are most likely to imitate their elders they will partake in the rinking experience.
3. Since 15-17 year olds look like 18 year olds some of the time, it will be difficult to detect who is actually 18 The reason: when society lowers the legal drinking age, for all practical purposes, it also lowers the illegal drinking age.
4. It is much easier for a 15- or 16-year-old to pass for an 18- or 19-year-old than a 21-year-old.

D. The forbidden fruit

1.Age 21 has resulted in decreases not increases in youth drinking, an outcome inconsistent with an increased allure of alcohol
2. If a person is younger this will impart more opportunities for younger teens to obtain alcohol illegally from older peers

E. Moderate Amounts of Alcohol Proven to Be Healthy

1. There is no level no known level of a safe, it has not been proven what is safe for one person will be safe for the population
2. There are so many factors to take into consideration when arriving at a ?safe level? of drinking. Who exactly has proven that is safe to drink? Who funded that research I wonder?
3. Most young people don?t drink to be healthy, they drink to impress others or as a means of escape
4. Yes, solutions to this problem involve parents. But they also involve all of society. Research indicates that the most effective solutions to reducing underage use of any drug happens only when every segment of society supports and enforces clear, consistent "no use" policies. Nothing else works.
5. We need parents, schools, churches, stores, policy makers, law enforcement, advertisers, media, business people, judges and all of the public saying "no" and meaning it regarding alcohol use by those under the age of 21.
6. This means shutting down those house parties where kids are given permission to drink. It means consistent enforcement of alcohol policies and laws.
7. It means raising the alcohol tax significantly.
8. It means stopping all alcohol marketing that appeals to kids.
9. It means examining our nation?s glorification of intoxication as the easiest or only way to have a good time.
10. It means actually taking away the licenses of those retailers caught selling to children.
11. Only then will we begin to bring common sense to the problem of underage drinking. Only then will we begin saving children?s lives.

F. Other countries drink at 18 or younger

1. Very different places with different attitudes, which those attitudes could be changed but over an extended period of time
2. Alcohol is embedded in our society as bad and evil
3. In Australia lowering the drinking age was associated with an increase in cases of deliqunecy and a significant in the hospital admissions as a result of non-traffic alcohol related accidents
4. Just because some countries have lower drinking ages doesn?t mean that we have the right to have those rights as well
5. reduction of the drinking age exposed much younger people to New Zealand's binge-drinking culture.

G. The law doesn?t work right now at 21

1. The law DOES work .
2. Young people drink less in response to this law.
3. The law has saved an estimated 17,000 lives.
4. Current laws have put such pressure on establishments who sell alcohol that penalties are severe enough where a person won?t sell to a younger person.
5. Current laws against sales to minors need to be stiffer not more lenient
6. First would be to argue the opposite and say that the laws do work. If laws really do not work, and it is really easy to get alcohol if you are currently underage, why bother to change the law? In other words, if the law is so ineffective in preventing minors from gaining access to alcohol, then advocates already have what they want. It is clear that the laws do work if the best and the brightest in Oregon cannot find ways to get around 7-11?s Oregon state ID requirement, or Shop n' Save's ID booklet.
7. *The second approach would be to agree with you in a less sarcastic way and say that the laws as a whole prevent those who are responsible from getting alcohol and allow for those who are deviant to have access. For those who believe that 18-year-olds are responsible I would say 18-year-olds are responsible enough to live on their own, but that is pretty much it.
8. These same responsible 18-year-olds are often truants, they wait until the last minute to write a paper or study for an exam, feign illness if they don't get it done, encourage their friends to drink 15 shots of vodka at a time, commit acts of rape and violence, sell copyrighted computer software without the proper license?and these are just incidents at Bates. Is this responsible? I think not. Aha! I can hear you all asking, It is unfortunate that a chunk of the under-21 cohort is irresponsible and that those irresponsible kids ruin it for everyone, but the harms of lowering the drinking age from 21 far outweigh the tangible benefits gained by those who are responsible. By raising the drinking age to 21 from 18 thousands of lives have been saved. By allowing you responsible ones to drink, you don't save any lives. Sorry.
9. Quite frankly, 18-year-olds should have their suffrage, smoking privileges and right to die for their country revoked so that the 21-year-old drinking law is consistent with other laws.
10. Most 18- to 21-year-olds are just as irresponsible as 10- and 14-year-olds, just more dangerous because they can drive, vote, and smoke up our health care system.

H. Lowering the drinking age will cause low scores in school

I. Alcohol is a drug , drugs lead to potential drug abuse in a person The younger a person begisn using alcohol, the greater change of developing alcohol dependence or abuse some time in their life.


J. The earlier a person begins using alcohol, the greater the risk of current and adult drug use and harm to the developing brain

1.Lowering the drinking age has led to a major increase in young people admitted with alcohol-related illness and injury, an Auckland Hospital emergency doctor says.

K. Keeps kids healthy, delaying alcohol reducing the risk of dependency, the developing mental state of a person

1. It is the number one killer of our young people. Alcohol is involved in at least one-half of all the car crashes, suicides, drownings, falls, and homicides involving youth. It is involved in 100% of the alcohol poisoning deaths among young people. Alcohol is also involved in at least one-half of all the crime, violence, injuries, trauma, unplanned sex, rapes, absenteeism, poor school performance and lost potential among those under the age of 21.
2. It?s a good thing to have the minimum legal drinking age law enacted. Higher alcohol taxes and increases in the minimum legal drinking age have been associated with lower incidences of adverse alcohol-related health outcomes (e.g., motor-vehicle crash-related deaths, liver cirrhosis, suicide, and violent crime, including domestic violence)
3. In the US adolescents are highly likely candidates for sexually transmitted diseases, and this likelihood increases when alcohol is introduced. Those young children are less likely to use condoms when they are intoxicated, thus creating a public health problem for the rest of society and more cost to the society in health care


L. The risk of allowing an 18 year old to buy alcohol could possibly cause the onset of troubles with friends, family, and work

1. Alcohol is a drug that you and I know leads to domestic problems and school related difficulties
2. It has been shown that low scores and consumption of alcohol are directly linked together

A higher minimum legal drinking age is effective in preventing alcohol-related deaths and injuries among youth. When the MLDA has been lowered, injury and death rates increase, and when the MLDA is increased, death and injury rates decline

The result was ever-increasing alcohol consumption by adolescents.
They found that the suicide rate among 18 to 20 year olds was about 8% higher in states with a drinking age of 18 years when compared to states with a drinking age of 21 years.

Closing Statement:

It is unfortunate that a chunk of the under-21 cohort is irresponsible and that those irresponsible kids ruin it for everyone, but the harms of lowering the drinking age from 21 far outweigh the tangible benefits gained by those who are responsible. By raising the drinking age to 21 from 18 thousands of lives have been saved. By allowing you responsible ones to drink, you don't save any lives.
alcohol abuse is a major social and financial burden and the change in law increases this burden.

The forum also heard there have been increased levels of drinking among 16- and 17-year-olds as the law change impacts on a younger age group than the one it was aimed at.



I want to know if there are other points that my opposition may bring up that I will be able to effectively address using the above outline (which will be rewritten). Thanks. :)
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
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a quick brainstorm eh? hmmm.... well.... yikes... i think that 21 is a fine age... its not like its tough to get... but its not super easy (all the time).... plus the whole "trouble" factor keeps it down... 18 year olds are not responsable enough to drink.. heck... no age group really is.... but i have no idea where im going with this.... so, YATTA!
 

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,447
133
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I didn't read through the whole thing carefully but D. The forbidden fruit - it could be argued that if you lower the age to 18 then you'll have more younger kids attempting to buy alcohol the way 18 year olds do now. "I'm so close to the drinking age, why not?" It's a culturally accepted thing, if not legal.
 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
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21 year old drunks are bad enough

18 year old drunks are just too much for sane people to take.
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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21 year olds are f'ing stupid as it is, 18 year olds are about 10x as stupid. nuff said.
 

LukFilm

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,128
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Just do it like in Europe where you grow up around alcohol, so it's not a big deal to drink and therefore, most people drink responsibly.
 

Ladies Man

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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blah as soon as you hit college easy access to beer

why should you still lower it? cus if i get caught my the cops with beer they are dicks
 

Joemonkey

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2001
8,859
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hrm

well, i think there should be NO drinking age. I think people who want to drink, no matter what age, should be allowed to

i started drinking at age 14 or so. I'm now 23, and still think it's silly that ANYONE has to resort to "breaking the law" to drink just because of how many days they have "existed" on this earth.

i'm not going to back this up with statistics or anything, i just think that if it wasn't such a big deal to *FINALLY * turn 21 and be able to drink lawfully, there wouldn't be so many stigmas associated with drinking. i guess this falls under your "forbidden fruit" argument.

anyway, this is just my crazy ass opinion. please don't take it to heart or think i'm berating you in any way. it just makes not logical sense to me to give someone an exact date that they are allowed to consume beverages which may impair their judgement and ability to drive depending on the volume they intake. there are plenty of people under 21 who do many other drugs which are illegal at any age, and face lesser punishment than those who drink alcohol while under 21.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
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If you are 18 and in the military,serving your country,then having a beer ON BASE ONLY and under rules of conduct acceptable by base authority, then fine. No drinking and driving ever.

I am against drinking. It doesn't matter what age you are. Drinking has nothing to do with age. 12 year olds drink wine with their meal in many cultures. I am against drinking because of health concerns,and most often drinking leads to impaired thinking,and drunkeness. It is simply a matter of time before harm in one form or another will come to those who decide to drink.


Hi, my name is T and I'm an alcoholic.


If you want to drink, thats your business.

If you want to stop drinking, thats my business.

Clean and sober 16 years, by the Grace of God and A.A.

Peace:)
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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I don't care as I live in Canada... Kinda sucks when I go down there though. It's kinda funny to see some 20 year old Americans getting all loopy off of 4 beer up here though.
 

AkumaBao

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2001
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It seems to be a considered the age of responsibility. You turn 18, then you are legally free to leave your parents control, and start your life of responsibility. Then once you're 21 you can then buy liquor, and own a hand gun. ( Great mix :p ) I would think that the legal system thinks after three years you are able to control what these privilages offer you. Another thing that comes to mind is that some states have a legal drinking age of 18, and in Europe it is even lower. I'm not sure about those states, but in Europe the laws are more strict and have less crime. For instance, Germany. Lots, and lots of STRONG beer & schnopps, but a low crime rate. Just a thought. Please quote me anyone if I've made any wrong statements.
 

j0lly

Platinum Member
Jul 30, 2001
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<< hrm

well, i think there should be NO drinking age. I think people who want to drink, no matter what age, should be allowed to

i started drinking at age 14 or so. I'm now 23, and still think it's silly that ANYONE has to resort to "breaking the law" to drink just because of how many days they have "existed" on this earth.

i'm not going to back this up with statistics or anything, i just think that if it wasn't such a big deal to *FINALLY * turn 21 and be able to drink lawfully, there wouldn't be so many stigmas associated with drinking. i guess this falls under your "forbidden fruit" argument.

anyway, this is just my crazy ass opinion. please don't take it to heart or think i'm berating you in any way. it just makes not logical sense to me to give someone an exact date that they are allowed to consume beverages which may impair their judgement and ability to drive depending on the volume they intake. there are plenty of people under 21 who do many other drugs which are illegal at any age, and face lesser punishment than those who drink alcohol while under 21.
>>



You are entitled to your opinion. Please feel free to speak your mind. Anyway, my rebute to your statements above would be:

1. Ages of initiation vary for a reason.
2. One may vote at 18, drink at 21, rent a car at 25 and run for president at 35.
3. These ages may appear arbitrary, but they take into account the requirements, risks, and benefits of each act.

I can't think of anything else to say that is more persuasive without making it a personal attack. :)
 

Joemonkey

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2001
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heh, make it a personal attack if ya want, i'd probably enjoy the attention... :)

anyway, these arbitrary age markings were made up by *people* in the *government*

how many of you trust them? THEM meaning people and/or government...
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Because most people under 21 are obnoxious enough without adding alcohol to the mix. Drunking obnoxious Adults are bad enough.
 

AkumaBao

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2001
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<< Clean and sober 16 years, by the Grace of God and A.A. >>



I'm very glad that AA worked for you. I personally drank more after a meeting, and was always uncomfortable with "God" been the "Higher Power", and not anything else. ( For other religions, and such ) It took just peace of mind for me, and strong willpower provided by Kung-Fu. They say "If it works...", but once again congrats, and I've been C&S a year, and 10 months.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
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My arguement is "hey I had to wait until I was 21 to drink legally, let everyone wait." No easy outs for you under 21 year olds! Wait like I had to. :)
 

AkumaBao

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2001
1,438
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<< anyway, these arbitrary age markings were made up by *people* in the *government* >>



Good point. You can't beat the system, but you can work the system. It isn't very lawful nor "fair", but corrupt. I don't want to get too far into this, but there are worse governments to be under.
 

Joemonkey

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2001
8,859
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this is going to sound weird, but here you go...

everyone who has gone through AA or any other program to stop drinking, how exactly should people respond when you tell them?

"congratulations" seems kind of weird to say... yet it's not like you *won* anything... and by no means should you be ashamed of anything...

my father is 71 years old, and was an alcoholic for over 30 years of his life. luckily for me, he quit a few years before i was born (in case you're skipping around this thread, i'm only 23...), so i never had to see the full effects of it on him.

but for someone like me, who has seen the awesomeness of what can happen once someone realizes the grip alcohol can have on them and they turn it around to create only good things for themselves...

what can i say to them to make them feel good that doesn't seem condesending?
 

LAUST

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
8,957
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They should leave it at 21, younger kids (no not all but most) get the idea drinking is cool, I drink on only 1 occasion a year, and thats coming up in about 27 days :) but even then I limit myself to just be in the spirits. My fathers side of the family was filled with alcaholics He was, his father and my great grandad was, my oldest uncle used to drink, then one day while he was still 18 he woke up after a night of drinking, he didn't remember the trip home at all, but his keys were in his pocket. He never touched alcahol again because of the thought he could have killed a person and never knew... he was 18, young, and stupid. Fortunanly that Experience made him more smart :/
 

j0lly

Platinum Member
Jul 30, 2001
2,885
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<< heh, make it a personal attack if ya want, i'd probably enjoy the attention... :)

anyway, these arbitrary age markings were made up by *people* in the *government*

how many of you trust them? THEM meaning people and/or government...
>>



Since the govt. is responsible for upholding law and order, they are forced to enforce rules and regulations which help their cause. I believe your argument corresponds to having a freedom of choice. In that case you have to look at the majority of people posting in this thread who are opposed to lowering this age and respect their freedom of having a govt. which enforces laws that are fair and wholesome for the good of their society.

I see the majority here agrees with the current age limit. I feel confident that I have sufficient material for the debate. :)
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
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lower it to 18 to match the other definitions of being an adult. if your going to do it, might as well be consistent. i've tried alchohol a couple times, i don't like how it tastes or how it makes me feel. which i guess is a good thing.
 

Joemonkey

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2001
8,859
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but j0lly, say there was a household with 2 children, say age 15 and 10.

suppose the husband and wife / parents were intelligent folks, and had respectable careers such as the husband was a nurse and the wife was a volunteer firefighter who also spent time volunteering at a soup kitchen

suppose both have college degrees, yet really enjoy what they are doing because the like serving society.

suppose one day, the 15 year old asks the parents what the *big deal* about drinking is since he heard only bad things come from it, so the mom takes the bourbon out of the cabinet and lets the 15 year old try some. the 15 year old hates the taste, and vows to never drink again.

the 10 year old sees whats going on, learned in school that *underage drinking is illegal* and calls the police to say the parents were commiting a crime since that's what she learned to do in her public school, *call the police if you see something illegal*. Police come, ask the 15 year old what happens, he tells the truth, and the parents go go jail and kids get sent to a state controleld home. seem fair?
 

LAUST

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
8,957
1
81


<< lower it to 18 to match the other definitions of being an adult. if your going to do it, might as well be consistent. i've tried alchohol a couple times, i don't like how it tastes or how it makes me feel. which i guess is a good thing. >>


It's a VERY good thing, you put yourself and your own opinion before Peer Pressure.