Why Voter ID laws are superfluous

[Amused]

The reason why Voter ID is required also when people are at the polling place is also quite simple. To make sure your permanent residence is still inside the same state/district. There are people who own more than one house. The purpouse of ID at this phase, is not significantly to show who you are, but if you still live at the place you claimed when you applied to vote, and have not moved. Every home that a person owns has a property paper associated with it. The only exception where this second ID check is a bit too much, is when it involves a homeless person trying to vote. A homeless person is homeless, thus they do not have anyway to prove that they are trying to vote at their correct voting place.

Furthermore, ID's do expire. Once they do, they are no longer considered as official proof of identification unless they are renewed.

All that typing and you completely ignored the very salient enumerated points in my post that all but spelled it out in crayon that made your entire post irrelevant.

But OK. I see you have a belief you need to cling to rather than think, so...

 

[NWRMidnight]

The reason why Voter ID is required also when people are at the polling place is also quite simple. To make sure your permanent residence is still inside the same state/district. There are people who own more than one house. The purpouse of ID at this phase, is not significantly to show who you are, but if you still live at the place you claimed when you applied to vote, and have not moved. Every home that a person owns has a property paper associated with it. The only exception where this second ID check is a bit too much, is when it involves a homeless person trying to vote. A homeless person is homeless, thus they do not have anyway to prove that they are trying to vote at their correct voting place.

Furthermore, ID's do expire. Once they do, they are no longer considered as official proof of identification unless they are renewed.

To show just how stupid your argument is, I point you towards what documents can be used to verify residency in the state of Texas to obtain a driver's license/state ID card:

Texas Residency Requirement for Driver Licenses and ID Cards | Department of Public Safety

www.dps.texas.gov

Did you see the second item on that list? Why do you think it's an unexpired voter's registration card? You do know that the voter's registration is also required to even get a ballot right? Your argument just went up in smoke, and shows why voter ID is nothing more than voter suppression, and has nothing to do with residency verification.

 

[ondma]

I think Greenman needs to start pulling out his ID every time he gets in his car, or goes to enter his home. You know, a verification process to make sure he really is the one who is supposed to enter that home, or drive that car. It doesn't' matter if he has already showing his ID and proved his identity when he purchased/rented the home, or purchased/leased the vehicle.

Maybe he should just pull out his keys instead.

 

[Amol S.]

To show just how stupid your argument is, I point you towards what documents can be used to verify residency in the state of Texas to obtain a driver's license/state ID card:

Texas Residency Requirement for Driver Licenses and ID Cards | Department of Public Safety

www.dps.texas.gov

Did you see the second item on that list? Why do you think it's an unexpired voter's registration card? You do know that the voter's registration is also required to even get a ballot right? Your argument just went up in smoke, and shows why voter ID is nothing more than voter suppression, and has nothing to do with residency verification.

I was trying to answer the question to why so many people claim voter ID's should be required at polling stations, not saying that I am for it.

I said the word expired for two reasons. First, it is a law in many states where an expired ID of any form cant be accepted for many things. Two, if the ID was not expired before applying for voting, but expired later it could be a problem.

I was not just reffering to residency requirements of the state of Texas, I was reffering to the typical residency requirements of many states in general.

I do agree with you in regards thethe government should find someway to allow the poor to get proof of their birth for free. The governement could just as well make the address on U.S. passports pre-printed rather than requesting the person who the passport belongs to, write down their address. By doing that, state I.D.'s no longer need to be used for voting. The government should give out passports with the birth certificate when a person is born in the US, of course after taking a picture of the baby. That US passport could then almost act like a secondary birth certificate, even after the passport was to expire.

 

[ondma]

This. It cost me $45 and two weeks wait to get a copy of my BC.

For some people this could mean the difference between eating for a week or get the certificate.

So you have to pay 30 or 40 dollars to get an ID. That is less than 1 dollar per week for a year. And the ID probably lasts several years. If a person cannot save one dollar per week to buy an ID (which, despite what some in this forum say, is basically a necessity to be a functional member of society), well, they have serious issues.

That said, I do think the ID should be free. That would both make it easier to obtain, and eliminate the excuse that it is some kind of financial hardship.

Edit: the fee in MN is 22.00, with a reduced rate for over 65 or mentally or physically disabled.

 

[JD50]

Maybe he should just pull out his keys instead.

Probably one of the worst analogies I've ever seen, keys don't prove identity like... at all.

 

[ondma]

Probably one of the worst analogies I've ever seen, keys don't prove identity like... at all.

Actually the original analogy was the one that was absurd. You dont have to live in any particular location to operate a car you own, in contrast to having to vote in the state (county) of your residence.

 

[JD50]

Actually the original analogy was the one that was absurd. You dont have to live in any particular location to operate a car you own, in contrast to having to vote in the state (county) of your residence.

No your analogy was just really awful. I mean just off the top of my head there's probably 6 different people with keys to my house lol.

Anyways this was all addressed in the OP that for whatever reason you guys aren't even reading.

 

[Paratus]

So you have to pay 30 or 40 dollars to get an ID. That is less than 1 dollar per week for a year. And the ID probably lasts several years. If a person cannot save one dollar per week to buy an ID (which, despite what some in this forum say, is basically a necessity to be a functional member of society), well, they have serious issues.

That said, I do think the ID should be free. That would both make it easier to obtain, and eliminate the excuse that it is some kind of financial hardship.

Edit: the fee in MN is 22.00, with a reduced rate for over 65 or mentally or physically disabled.

When Texas tried this 5 years ago several examples of folks who had problems with the ID requirement were brought to the courts attention.

One of the examples I recall, was of an elderly woman who regularly voted. She had not driven in years and her DL was expired. She used the same bank account she had while her husband had been alive and I believe she was in assisted living.

The "free ID" Texas offered required her birth certificate and a copy of her marriage license to corroborate her name change. She was born in a different state at home with a midwife in attendance, not a hospital, and had no official birth certificate. They would be willing to create one with two forms of official identification.

The marriage certificate was lost for some reason I can't recall and a record of the marriage certificate was in a separate state from TX and her birth state. It was old enough that it wasn't available to request online and would have had to be done in person.

The woman and her daughter spent 6 months trying to work with these local governments to get her IDs in order and were not successful.


Why should this specific woman who otherwise lives her life without an ID and votes need to give up her right to vote or spend hundreds of dollars traveling and several days time to work through these issues with three different state and local governments?

 

[ElFenix]

Why should this specific woman who otherwise lives her life without an ID and votes need to give up her right to vote or spend hundreds of dollars traveling and several days time to work through these issues with three different state and local governments?

because she might open a bank account which requires ID (we have on very good supposition!)!

 

[ondma]

When Texas tried this 5 years ago several examples of folks who had problems with the ID requirement were brought to the courts attention.

One of the examples I recall, was of an elderly woman who regularly voted. She had not driven in years and her DL was expired. She used the same bank account she had while her husband had been alive and I believe she was in assisted living.

The "free ID" Texas offered required her birth certificate and a copy of her marriage license to corroborate her name change. She was born in a different state at home with a midwife in attendance, not a hospital, and had no official birth certificate. They would be willing to create one with two forms of official identification.

The marriage certificate was lost for some reason I can't recall and a record of the marriage certificate was in a separate state from TX and her birth state. It was old enough that it wasn't available to request online and would have had to be done in person.

The woman and her daughter spent 6 months trying to work with these local governments to get her IDs in order and were not successful.


Why should this specific woman who otherwise lives her life without an ID and votes need to give up her right to vote or spend hundreds of dollars traveling and several days time to work through these issues with three different state and local governments?

I agree that having the proper documents and access to a location to file them is the real issue, and can be very frustrating. The 20 or 40 dollar cost for an ID that lasts several years, not so much.

I obviously dont know the particulars of the situation you mentioned, but even though i could not obtain my birth certificate on line, I called the records office in the state in which I was born (Missouri, I now live in MN) and they sent me copies of my birth certificate for a nominal fee. (I dont remember the exact amount, seems like 5 or 10 bucks). There are also on line orgainzations that specialize in obtaining birth certificates. They obviously charge a fee, but I dont think it is hundreds of dollars.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Maybe none, but that's not the point. You pretty much have to have an id to be a functioning member of society, or an alcoholic smoker, or a meth cooker. Having id isn't an unreasonable burden for anyone.

Feels.

 

[nakedfrog]

I was trying to answer the question to why so many people claim voter ID's should be required at polling stations, not saying that I am for it.

I said the word expired for two reasons. First, it is a law in many states where an expired ID of any form cant be accepted for many things. Two, if the ID was not expired before applying for voting, but expired later it could be a problem.

I was not just reffering to residency requirements of the state of Texas, I was reffering to the typical residency requirements of many states in general.

I do agree with you in regards thethe government should find someway to allow the poor to get proof of their birth for free. The governement could just as well make the address on U.S. passports pre-printed rather than requesting the person who the passport belongs to, write down their address. By doing that, state I.D.'s no longer need to be used for voting. The government should give out passports with the birth certificate when a person is born in the US, of course after taking a picture of the baby. That US passport could then almost act like a secondary birth certificate, even after the passport was to expire.

A passport is already pretty much accepted in lieu of a birth certificate, I know, because I didn't have my birth certificate when I moved out, but I still had my passport.
However... then you need to get a new passport every time you move. It's a bit more of a hassle than updating a driver's license.

What we should do is... well, demonstrate there's an actual issue with the way we're doing things now, and then chart our course based on that.

 

[killster1]

I have noticed few, if any, really understand how our voting system works and fall for simplistic and impossible conspiracies like "ballot box stuffing" and "ballots from Chyna."

So here is an explanation for those people and also an explanation why IDs at the polls are irrelevant and unnecessary...

If ANYONE sat and ACTUALLY thought about how voting works in the US, they would quickly understand why IDs are not at all required to vote. Why? For the same reason mail-in ballots work securely.

1. You must register to vote at your current address.

2. Your name and address combo are added to the voter rolls after verification of your citizenship and eligibility to vote (THIS IS YOUR ID CHECK).

3. When you go to vote, you give the person your name and address combo and they check your name off the voter rolls as having voted.

4. When votes are counted, name and address combos MUST match voter rolls. Anomalies (not on rolls or multiple votes from one name/address combo) are rare, and are tossed.

This makes fraud virtually impossible. NO ONE is complaining that they had their vote stolen by someone pretending to be them. This is so rare as to be virtually non-existent.

This system also makes ballot box stuffing impossible, as each ballot much match a name and address on the voter rolls ONCE. Anomalies are tossed. ALL of them. So a double vote ends up being non vote.

Rarely do people make up fake names and addresses and register as this is tedious and also a federal crime with stiff penalties. It happens so rarely that when it does, it's big news and the convictions for doing so are swift and severe. Adding the extra step of creating a fake ID for each isn't going to slow that down because they already had to create an entirely fake identity to register it.

End of story. ID requirements have NEVER been necessary.

View attachment 48239

im so happy you are here to tell us the exact % of fraud that goes on in life. i thought it would be impossible to know but i guess you have it all figured out "rarely do people make up fake names and addresses" oh its rare we don't need to regulate it ... of course you need a ID for everything in life except being on welfare so I think having a ID would prove to be a person in life that has contributed SOMTHING ANYTHING to society.

 

[fskimospy]

So, other than saying how easy it is to get an ID has anyone made a case for why having voter ID makes things better yet?

 

[fskimospy]

im so happy you are here to tell us the exact % of fraud that goes on in life. i thought it would be impossible to know but i guess you have it all figured out "rarely do people make up fake names and addresses" oh its rare we don't need to regulate it ... of course you need a ID for everything in life except being on welfare so I think having a ID would prove to be a person in life that has contributed SOMTHING ANYTHING to society.

Okay well if you disagree then surely you can provide evidence that in person voter fraud occurs frequently enough to make any difference in our elections. Otherwise, voter ID is pointless and wasteful.

When can we expect this evidence?

 

[Jhhnn]

Okay well if you disagree then surely you can provide evidence that in person voter fraud occurs frequently enough to make any difference in our elections. Otherwise, voter ID is pointless and wasteful.

When can we expect this evidence?

Bigfoot will reveal it at his press conference.

 

[soundforbjt]

Bigfoot will reveal it at his press conference.

Next to a dildo store.

 

[Amol S.]

Next to a dildo store.

Which is also across the street from a lawn mowing corporation.

 

[NWRMidnight]

I was trying to answer the question to why so many people claim voter ID's should be required at polling stations, not saying that I am for it.

I said the word expired for two reasons. First, it is a law in many states where an expired ID of any form cant be accepted for many things. Two, if the ID was not expired before applying for voting, but expired later it could be a problem.

I was not just reffering to residency requirements of the state of Texas, I was reffering to the typical residency requirements of many states in general.

I do agree with you in regards thethe government should find someway to allow the poor to get proof of their birth for free. The governement could just as well make the address on U.S. passports pre-printed rather than requesting the person who the passport belongs to, write down their address. By doing that, state I.D.'s no longer need to be used for voting. The government should give out passports with the birth certificate when a person is born in the US, of course after taking a picture of the baby. That US passport could then almost act like a secondary birth certificate, even after the passport was to expire.

The point of my response doesn't matter if you agree with what you said or you don't. You said that voter ID's are for proving you are still a resident in that state. I used Texas because it is one of the states who is pushing voter ID laws, yet one of the very documents you can use to get that ID, is your voter registration. Which is what is used in the validation process of the cast vote, so what was being claimed the ID is for, is already done in the voting process eliminating that as an argument of needing to provide ID to prove residency at the voting booth.

Nothing I said has anything to do with expired ID.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Maybe he should just pull out his keys instead.

When did keys become a form of ID?

 

[killster1]

Okay well if you disagree then surely you can provide evidence that in person voter fraud occurs frequently enough to make any difference in our elections. Otherwise, voter ID is pointless and wasteful.

When can we expect this evidence?

i love it str8 love it when people like you say this "PROVe this impossible to prove fact or we can say its pointless" yea how about you prove that your not pissing the bed every night or its not true.. i mean seriously i want to see proof for every night the past 40 years of your life. or we can all just assume you piss yourself daily.

 

[killster1]

The point of my response doesn't matter if you agree with what you said or you don't. You said that voter ID's are for proving you are still a resident in that state. I used Texas because it is one of the states who is pushing voter ID laws, yet one of the very documents you can use to get that ID, is your voter registration. Which is what is used in the validation process of the cast vote, so what was being claimed the ID is for, is already done in the voting process eliminating that as an argument of needing to provide ID to prove residency at the voting booth.

Nothing I said has anything to do with expired ID.

because you can use a voter ID as one of the million required documents to get a license what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? does this seem like similar requirements for voting? just blowing hot air?

What to bring with you when applying for a Texas Driver License or Identification Card To be issued a non-commercial driver license (DL) or identification card (ID) in the state of Texas, you must bring the following documentation to your local driver license office:
1. Application for an Original Texas Driver License or Identification Card
2. Proof of U.S. Citizenship or Evidence of Lawful Presence
3. Proof of Residency
4. Proof of Identity, and
5. Proof of Social Security Number
6. Proof of Insurance for each vehicle you own
7. Evidence of Texas Vehicle Registration for each vehicle you own (New residents who are surrendering an out-of-state driver license only)

 

[fskimospy]

i love it str8 love it when people like you say this "PROVe this impossible to prove fact or we can say its pointless" yea how about you prove that your not pissing the bed every night or its not true.. i mean seriously i want to see proof for every night the past 40 years of your life. or we can all just assume you piss yourself daily.

It’s not impossible to prove, it should in fact be very easy to prove as in any circumstance where you have large numbers of fraudulent votes you should have plenty of cases of two votes recorded for one person. The legitimate vote and the fraudulent one.

So, where is the evidence of this? When can we expect it?

 

[killster1]

It’s not impossible to prove, it should in fact be very easy to prove as in any circumstance where you have large numbers of fraudulent votes you should have plenty of cases of two votes recorded for one person. The legitimate vote and the fraudulent one.

So, where is the evidence of this? When can we expect it?

omg you piss your self every night!!!! we have proof since you didnt provide the proof of opposite.