Why Today's Graphics Card Market Sucks

[Modelworks]

Its funny when I think about it.
when I started in pc's all the rage was the matrox millenium cards.
Everyone quoted numbers on how fast they could display office documents and redraw the screen. There were lots of companies around but matrox was the one to get.

Years went buy and then 3dfx came along and changed pc gaming completely.
Slowly over the years we lost 3dfx, diamond, 3dlabs ( that one really surprised me ) , now were down to just two competitors.

There were a lot of good innovative companies that got swallowed up along the way.

I doubt we will ever see any addittional competitors in the market now, it cost way too much to start companies like these.

 

[DasFox]

I ended up getting an upgrade from Evga for free since I was running into problems with the 7900 cards. They're sending me a brand new 8800GTX.

So hey I want to use it, and I can't imagine that the 8800GTX is that bad.

But sheesh the more I think about it, I wouldn't mind selling it while it's still brand new and hold out for a 8900GTX, or do I, hmm...

ALOHA

 

[DasFox]

Forgot to mention the only thing I don't like about the 8800 cards is the LACK of ---> DRIVERS!

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: n7
Honestly, xDarc has a point.

Apparently, though, most of you are so enamoured with your green or red love to see thru your shaders.

Pricing has steadily increased on high end cards, as well as higher mid range.

Sure performance has gone up, but as we've seen w/ C2Ds from Intel, that doesn't mean pricing needs to go up; it can actually come down.

The other thing that's really annoying is that not only has pricing jumped a ton, but power consumption & heat output has gotten ridiculous, with no apparent end to the madness in sight.

When touching the side of my 8800 GTX's heatsink for more than a second or two at idle is cause for burns, that might be a good sign the manufacturers might wanna look at getting things a bit more efficient, rather than slapping on bigger & bigger heatsinks every generation.

Overall, i'm going to have to agree w/ the OP, the graphics card market is indeed sh!t right now.
My 8800 GTX is a great card, but it has issues (since nV + drivers = joke).
We have no real competition at the very high end, & pricing of course has stayed inflated.
I personally am not impressed w/ the GPU market these days either.

I agree and that?s why I'm still setting on my 6800 till it settles down if it ever does. I'm only running 1680x1050 so can live with it but would like to upgrade soon. The only thing killing me is I can get a new CPU, MB and memory for less than a graphics card? I have been in the game for a long time (8086) and that has Not been the norm over the years.

 

[CrystalBay]

It does kinda suck , or some DX9 programmers are 5 years late in optimizing ...

 

[Skiutah]

Wow, I'm not even going to try and sort through all of the misinformation and facts in this thread, but one thing is for sure...

Consumers' real power is with their wallets. Don't like something? Don't buy. That's how you talk to corporations like ATi and nVidia - it's the only language they know.

Everything else is just preaching to the choir or splitting hairs.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Skiutah
Wow, I'm not even going to try and sort through all of the misinformation and facts in this thread, but one thing is for sure...

Consumers' real power is with their wallets. Don't like something? Don't buy. That's how you talk to corporations like ATi and nVidia - it's the only language they know.

Everything else is just preaching to the choir or splitting hairs.

That would be true if everyone was an educated consumer. Most people, even gaming enthusiasts, aren't!

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
huh? like this link you provided where, even at utlra texture settings and highest resolutions the 320mb version beats the 7series handily? do you even read the links you provide?

Check the other benchmarks in that review. That's the conclusion page- but Doom3 also happens to be there; and happens to be the only benchmark that the 8800 won conclusively in. It gets beat in at least one configuration in every other title.

And yeah- benchmarks are going to be very different from title to title; with different rig setups; and game configurations... and could show a wide margins of difference. The point is- the 8800's victory over all is not conclusive; is not unanimous- and is certainly not offering "almost double the performance" (as someone else put it) all of the time; or even often- over high end cards from the 7 series and x1K series.

The point is that there's nothing really revolutionary about the performance these cards deliver- and I don't feel they were ever worth unusually high prices.

Dude, what is so ahrd to understand that you are looking at a 8800GTS 320mb vs a 7900GTX 512mb? The GTS spanks the 7900GTX in all situations EXCEPT at high resolutions and AA. Anyone who knows anything about video cards knows that you do not buy an 8800GTS 320mb for high resolution gaming. There is simply not enough memory for those high resolutions. An 8800GTS 320mb should be the card of choice for gamers who play at 1280x1024 and MAYBE 1680x1050.

Your comparison absolutely useless.

WWYBYWB?

Astute assumption and I agree. The potential beauty of an 8800GTS lies in not even thinking about it being a DX10 card when you purchase, but rather a perfect stopgap card for thos that game on a CRT still and will likely convert over to a 22" LCD that runs @ 1650*1050. At that widescreen res you don't need super high settings and in many cases more than 2X-2X to get a great looking screen. So essentially the 8800GTS 320MB card is THE perfect 1280*1024 CRT card now if you like a combination of quiet, HDCP compliant, and the perfect transitional card to a 20- 22" LCD later on.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

You cannot expect the price/performance curve to remain static, this is not a Utopia.

I understand that, I do.... BUT- can't the price/performance curve at least be REASONABLE.

If you check this link: Clicky You can see a comparison of the 8800 series. From the GTX to the Ultra in 3DMark06; there's a 5% difference in their scores. FIVE PERCENT... and at one point there was on average a 250 dollar difference in price to gain... FIVE PERCENT! TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY!

Argh! Do you get me?

P.S. I read somewhere that every C2D clock cycle was the relative equivalent of 2 or 4 P4 clock cycles in terms of power; I forget which. Musta been 2. I'll take your word on it.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: coldpower27

You cannot expect the price/performance curve to remain static, this is not a Utopia.

I understand that, I do.... BUT- can't the price/performance curve at least be REASONABLE.

If you check this link: Clicky You can see a comparison of the 8800 series. From the GTX to the Ultra in 3DMark06; there's a 5% difference in their scores. FIVE PERCENT... and at one point there was on average a 250 dollar difference in price to gain... FIVE PERCENT! TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY!

Argh! Do you get me?

P.S. I read somewhere that every C2D clock cycle was the relative equivalent of 2 or 4 P4 clock cycles in terms of power; I forget which. Musta been 2. I'll take your word on it.

so, its only the high-end mrkt that sux now?

not many people play in the ultra sandbox for the very reason you state. its only the people who want the very top (for whatever reason, idc) card who will pay that premium for a few fps and bragging rights.

everyone i think agrees on that.

iirc, i paid ~320 for a 6800gt pci-e and that was practically a price-mistake at the time from micro-center. most were ~ 380. for the most part, mainstream prices are what they have been.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Me: I've said it plenty of times before- the low end 8600GT performs no better than cards made 2 or more generations ago;

no better than the high end cards made in past generation. they are still an improvement over previous low range cards. you're not gonna find awesome performance for $100.

My bad- forgot an "S." Make that an 8600GTS. Linky Yeah I know- it's only 1 generation ago; and it's an x1950PRO, not a x1900GT. I could not find a direct comparison for an x1900GT to an 8600GTS... but I did find a comparison on the 1900GT to the Pro; and they are very similar performing cards in benchmarks... the link for that review no longer seems to be working. Find another or take my word for it.

Point is- I got a Sapphire x1900GT for 220 dollars shipped to my house sometime in 2006; I don't remember exactly when, I believe it was spring or summer. Anyhow, the X1900GT can at the very least match what the 8600GTS has to offer, so this is my question...

Why do they cost roughly the same? If I am going to pay the same amount money I paid on a card this year as I did last year; why doesn't that card perform better?

What's up with that? Seems like a blatant rip off to me. But I'm sure you have some silly excuse to defend what kind of crap these toolboxes in the card market are doing; and then go on to lament about oil companies making money.

Pffft. Put the pipe down.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
If the market is so bad right now and there aren't any compelling DX10 titles out right now - why not vote with your wallet and NOT BUY a new card until they come down in price? If something illegal is happening a-la price fixing, let it get sorted out in a court of law.

I'm not gonna buy anything. That's kinda the point of this write up. Don't buy. The market sucks.

And if either ATI or Nvidia get busted for price fixing; and I come back and rub all your noses in it, any of you gonna cop to it? 51 lawsuits... those are pretty good odds.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Maybe that is part of the problem here... You play enthusiast for one night and decide that you are an authority. Well, I'm an enthusiast (maybe elitist even) everyday.

Oh I'm an enthuiast every day and have been for about 8 years now- but one without some cushy job, or who's a kid with well to do parents, or someone who has no bills to pay- or some combination thereof.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: n7
So let's summarize:

Majority of ATer are happy with paying $600+ for a video card & feel it's a great value :roll:

That right there summarizes why we have prices so high...apparently it's a good thing.

Like I said- I posted this thread at a few places around the web initially and it faired much better. Also, I refined the original write up after reading and looking into what these fussy ones are clamoring about- and then posted it at a few other enthusiast sites.

It's doing much better now. Suppose I'll post my write ups here from now on first; since I'll draw the worst fire and end up with a better finished post that much quicker. Thanks for all your help.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: Matt2
When the supply dries up, the previous generation cards move back to the MSRP prices because there is a very low supply of the cards.

Never see this on the internet where I do all my component shopping. In fact I picked up an AMDK6 550 for 5 dollars a couple years ago for a friend who still had an OLD AMD machine with that same socket and installed it for him as a B-day gift. *shrugs* Perhaps if the cards are pawned off to a retail outlet in the hopes that some sucker will come in and buy a 2+ year old card at nearly full price- I guess.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Maybe that is part of the problem here... You play enthusiast for one night and decide that you are an authority. Well, I'm an enthusiast (maybe elitist even) everyday.

Oh I'm an enthuiast every day and have been for about 8 years now- but one without some cushy job, or who's a kid with well to do parents, or someone who has no bills to pay- or some combination thereof.

there are car enthusiasts who don't drive [fill in uber car, idk]. doesn't make them any less of enthusiasts, just with less toys

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: rise
da fix is in!!

If this works out, the graphics card market will adjust in the consumer's favor nicely.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: rise
da fix is in!!

If this works out, the graphics card market will adjust in the consumer's favor nicely.

aye, but nv is already saying it would be only low-end and wouldn't replace or even effect the discrete graphics mrkt.

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: grumpyboy


Ild be the first to admit spending what I did on 8800 gtx was idiotic and shameful in a way

But it sure has been fun.

Ah, an honest person. And if you had fun and feel it was in a way, worth it; I guess that's all that really matters. But for me, and many others, it's all about real value.

 

[Laminator]

That is unacceptable. Now the integrated chips will have cooler names than the discrete chips.

For example, what would you rather have? A "GeForce 9800GTS" or a "GeForce X4000"? It has an 'X' in its name! That means that it's XTREME!

XTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: Laminator
Some people don't like compromising their IQ settings and will make sacrifices in other parts of their lives in order to play games with AA and AF cranked up.

Sacrifices in their lives? For IQ? Someone needs to start an 800 help hotline for such people...

 

[xDarc]

Originally posted by: rise
so, its only the high-end mrkt that sux now?

Wow you guys are good. Who taught you how to post? You not only completely ignored a good example of the ridiculousness in the market that simply is what it is... but you then put words in my mouth. Good job.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: xDarc

Originally posted by: rise
so, its only the high-end mrkt that sux now?

Wow you guys are good. Who taught you how to post? You not only completely ignored a good example of the ridiculousness in the market that simply is what it is... but you then put words in my mouth. Good job.

now you're getting trollish. i addressed your example and added my own.

it's obvious to me you want to play with toys you can't afford. so find something else. or start that 800 hotline you mention and make some $$ :laugh:

 

[xDarc]

Anyhow- if you guys wanna keep going I'll be back in a day. But I feel we're pretty much done here, no? It's been fun.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Laminator
That is unacceptable. Now the integrated chips will have cooler names than the discrete chips.

For example, what would you rather have? A "GeForce 9800GTS" or a "GeForce X4000"? It has an 'X' in its name! That means that it's XTREME!

XTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!

:laugh:!!!!!