Why the love don't they make a phone with active cooling?

[zaza]

I remember 7 years ago I was playing Hitman Blood money on my weak laptop. Usually the game played at a butter smooth nonstop 60 fps, but this time when I started it is was literally a slideshow at 2 fps. I found out the cooling fan had stopped working and so the laptop throttled and then shut itself down cause of the scorching temperatures.
So in fact the cooling fan did not just double or triple the performance, it multiplied it by 20. That's what a 2 dollar cooling fan alone can do, it can unlock the true power of a processor and gpu.

Anybody with a phone already knows that there are some games you can't play for more than 5 minutes before the critical temperature is reached and the chip throttles so much the game becomes unplayable. And if you've never experienced this you probably don't game much to begin with.

So if they just made an extra phone with a cooling fan attatched, like for e.g. there's the iphone 6s, iphone 6s plus, and then there's the iphone 6s plus gaming edition which is exactly the same except it has a cooling fan built in. Not only would the phone be able to play any graphics intensive game without ever throttling, but the phone performance can be quadrupled and you'll be able to run Xbone and Ps4 games on it.

So why the hell don't the make an iphone 6s plus gaming edition phone already!?

 

[QueBert]

I game on my phone all the time and have never had this throttling problem. Not saying it doesn't happen, but not to me. And I've played some of the most graphical games out there on my iPhone like Hitman & that 3d but in 2d motorcycle game.

iPhone 6+ here, also gamed a lot on my HTC One, sometimes for a few hours on end.

 

[zaza]

I game on my phone all the time and have never had this throttling problem. Not saying it doesn't happen, but not to me. And I've played some of the most graphical games out there on my iPhone like Hitman & that 3d but in 2d motorcycle game.

iPhone 6+ here, also gamed a lot on my HTC One, sometimes for a few hours on end.

You likely never played the kind of games that put a heavy load on the cpu and/or gpu, that's why.

 

[mrochester]

You likely never played the kind of games that put a heavy load on the cpu and/or gpu, that's why.

What games do you suggest put enough load on the CPU/GPU so that I can test this on a 6S?

 

[zaza]

What games do you suggest put enough load on the CPU/GPU so that I can test this on a 6S?

Currently I don't think there are many games that place full load on the 6s, because 1) It's running ios which most games are 100% optimized for and 2) It has the metal api which decreases CPU load much more as well and 3) It's the most powerful fucking phone on the market.

That said, I am 100% sure that there are some new games out there that do make the iphone 6s throttle, but I dont know what they are cause I dont own an iphone 6s.

For example when you have just opened up a new game that starts running at 55 fps instead of 60, i.e. it's using 100% of the gpu, then I am positive it will take no more than a single minute for the game to throttle to below 30 fps, and later even below 20 fps.

Usually androids throttle much more severely than iphones cause they they are higher clocked and most games aren't optimized to decrease load on androids.

 

[mrochester]

Currently I don't think there are many games that place full load on the 6s, because 1) It's running ios which most games are 100% optimized for and 2) It has the metal api which decreases CPU load much more as well and 3) It's the most powerful fucking phone on the market.

That said, I am 100% sure that there are some new games out there that do make the iphone 6s throttle, but I dont know what they are cause I dont own an iphone 6s.

You seemed to be suggesting in your original post that you had an iPhone 6S or 6S Plus struggling to play games that required a cooling fan. Which phone are you actually referring to when it comes to mobile games?

 

[zaza]

You seemed to be suggesting in your original post that you had an iPhone 6S or 6S Plus struggling to play games that required a cooling fan. Which phone are you actually referring to when it comes to mobile games?

All of them. ALL phones throttle, you can google this. Modern smartphones are specifically desidned for short bursts of high performance, they are not designed to sustain this performance for a longer period.

 

[mrochester]

All of them. ALL phones throttle, you can google this. Modern smartphones are specifically desidned for short bursts of high performance, they are not designed to sustain this performance for a longer period.

I know phones throttle, I'm just trying to find out which phones/games you've experienced this on.

 

[zaza]

I know phones throttle, I'm just trying to find out which phones/games you've experienced this on.

I have a galaxy s5 (crapsynos version). Games where I experienced this are NOVA 3, boom beach, World of Tanks Blitz, etc.

 

[mrochester]

I have a galaxy s5 (crapsynos version). Games where I experienced this are NOVA 3, boom beach, World of Tanks Blitz, etc.

Why not try running those games with some sort of utility to check what the CPU/GPU are doing at the same time?

 

[zaza]

Why not try running those games with some sort of utility to check what the CPU/GPU are doing at the same time?

I do.

GPU starts out at 480 MHz and gradually drops till it reaches 173 MHz.

CPU using big.LITTLE configuration, high performance quad core starts out at 1.9 GHz then drops to 900MHz, then gets completely shut down, then the low performance quad core (@1.3 GHz) takes over and it runs the game on two of its cores at 500 MHz while disabling the other two, and keeps doing so after you close the game until the phone cools down enough.

And doing all this in a well conditioned room at 19 degrees celcius.

 

[mrochester]

I do.

GPU starts out at 480 MHz then finally drops to 173 MHz.

CPU using big.LITTLE configuration, high performance quad core starts out at 1.9 GHz then drops to 900MHz, then gets completely shut down, then the low performance quad core (@1.3 GHz) takes over and it runs the game on two of its cores at 500 MHz while disabling the other two, and keeps doing so after you close the game until the phone cools down enough.

Any different if you try the same test but with the back cover of the phone removed and a desk fan blowing directly on it? That would be interesting to see if it helps.

 

[zaza]

Any different if you try the same test but with the back cover of the phone removed and a desk fan blowing directly on it? That would be interesting to see if it helps.

Yes I tried that. It made absolutely no difference. The phone is encased in a thermally non-conductive plastic shell, so little heat can get in, and little heat can get out.

 

[mrochester]

Yes I tried that. It made absolutely no difference. The phone is encased in a thermally non-conductive plastic shell, so little heat can get in, and little heat can get out.

This is probably where a nice aluminium unibody construction would have helped the Galaxy S5. It definitely sounds like the thermal design of the S5 isn't great then.

 

[zaza]

This is probably where a nice aluminium unibody construction would have helped the Galaxy S5. It definitely sounds like the thermal design of the S5 isn't great then.

I don't think any phones come with thermally conductive shells that make contact with chip inside, otherwise people would start getting electrocuted when holding a charging phone.

Metal body designs are usually about greater protection and better aesthetics rather than thermal conductivity.

 

[mrochester]

I don't think any phones come with thermally conductive shells that make contact with chip inside, otherwise people would start getting electrocuted when holding a charging phone.

Metal body designs are usually about greater protection and better aesthetics rather than thermal conductivity.

You can isolate the charging circuitry from the rest of the device. My aluminium laptop certainly gets warm to the touch when it's working hard so there's clearly some interaction between the internal chips and the external body. I don't know why that wouldn't apply just the same to a smartphone.

 

[zaza]

You can isolate the charging circuitry from the rest of the device. My aluminium laptop certainly gets warm to the touch when it's working hard so there's clearly some interaction between the internal chips and the external body. I don't know why that wouldn't apply just the same to a smartphone.

It probably does, but not much. I heard that HTC phones get much hotter to the touch than samsung phones, which is a good thing cause it means it's dissipating some of the heat to the metal body, but I still highly doubt the metal body has any direct contact with the chip.

The interaction between your laptop case and the chips inside is just due to the air around the chips getting hotter.

 

[mrochester]

It probably does, but not much. I heard that HTC phones get much hotter to the touch than samsung phones, which is a good thing cause it means it's dissipating some of the heat to the metal body, but I still highly doubt the metal body has any direct contact with the chip.

The interaction between your laptop case and the chips inside is just due to the air around the chips getting hotter.

I doubt the external body has direct contact with the chips, but if the external body is metal, it'll do a much better job of dissipating the internal heat away from the components in comparison to a plastic bodied phone.

In relation to the HTC phone (specifically the HTC One M9), this might simply be because the SD 810 is a hot running processor causing the body of the device to heat up a lot. However, a company like HTC is rather stuck as they don't have their own in-house CPU design to fall back on when the off-the-shelf components aren't good.

 

[zaza]

I doubt the external body has direct contact with the chips, but if the external body is metal, it'll do a much better job of dissipating the internal heat away from the components in comparison to a plastic bodied phone.

In relation to the HTC phone (specifically the HTC One M9), this might simply be because the SD 810 is a hot running processor causing the body of the device to heat up a lot. However, a company like HTC is rather stuck as they don't have their own in-house CPU design to fall back on when the off-the-shelf components aren't good.

The problem is that everyone keeps whining the 810 overheats and throttles, when in fact ALL smartphones overheat and throttle, the 810 just a teeny bit more. Like the 810 would drop from 60 to 20 fps while an equivalent chip would drop to 25 fps. It's ridiculous.

 

[mrochester]

The problem is that everyone keeps whining the 810 overheats and throttles, when in fact ALL smartphones overheat and throttle, the 810 just a teeny bit more. Like the 810 would drop from 60 to 20 fps while an equivalent chip would drop to 25 fps. It's ridiculous.

All smartphones, or just all Android smartphones? If it's a problem with just Android smartphones, it sounds like it could be an optimisation issue.

 

[zaza]

All smartphones, or just all Android smartphones? If it's a problem with just Android smartphones, it sounds like it could be an optimisation issue.

ALL smartphones throttle. Iphones throttle a little less less than androids though (cause they come clocked lower so they don't produce as much heat).

Usually since most game developers test and run their games on iphones (while android is mostly an afterthought) they will most often make sure their game doesn't place a heavy enough load on the iphone so that it will not throttle after long periods of gameplay. Too bad they won't give androids the same privilege (probably cause 99% of android users get cracked copies of the game)

 

[mrochester]

ALL smartphones throttle. Iphones throttle a little less less than androids though (cause they come clocked lower so they don't produce as much heat).

Usually since most game developers test and run their games on iphones (while android is mostly an afterthought) they will most often make sure their game doesn't place a heavy enough load on the iphone so that it will not throttle after long periods of gameplay. Too bad they won't give androids the same privilege (probably cause 99% of android users get cracked copies of the game)

Well it sounds like the proper solution is to encourage developers to optimise their games properly. Sticking active cooling in a device just masks the problem.

 

[zaza]

Well it sounds like the proper solution is to encourage developers to optimise their games properly. Sticking active cooling in a device just masks the problem.

Actually active cooling wouldn't just prevent throttling, it would allow you to multiply the performance ten fold. You would literally be able to get console quality graphics.

 

[mrochester]

Actually active cooling wouldn't just prevent throttling, it would allow you to multiply the performance ten fold. You would literally be able to get console quality graphics.

But you'd also have a battery that was flat in 10 minutes

 

[Cakefish]

The general masses wouldn't want to make the compromises that would be needed to be made: battery life, noise, weight, durability.

Even NVIDIA, a gaming brand first and foremost, didn't plonk a fan in their tablet. The market for such a device isn't large enough to generate enough sales for the OEMs to be interested in making a fan-cooled phone.