Why the left hates Trump so intensely

[Starbuck1975]

Try again

Better yet don't and we'll take the thread back on topic.

This discussion is very much on topic. I don't think the left itself understand why it hates Trump because the left still doesn't understand why he won.

I find it ironic that the protestors yesterday seemed to state an intent of sending a mesage for Trump to consider their priorities and grievances, which were all over the map. I don't recall Obama or the left, who so arrogantly went charging into their "mandate" eight years ago, showing the same consideration for conservatives. Obama perhaps sought bi-partisanship, but Reid and Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and Boehner essentially nuked that option from orbit.

Conservatives don't take to the streets. They rally and regroup and provide checks and balances, counter punching with electoral victories at the legislative and state levels.

I am curious who rises to lead the Democrats and help them galvanize the opposition. Will it be the Clinton wing or Sanders wing? I sure as hell hope Madonna does not emerge as the voice of the left.

No I take that back. Madonna should be the voice of the left. So much misdirected and misguided anger.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Actually I think I hate the guy, but that is me I suppose.

You're allowed, I try to avoid hate it causes too many bad thoughts & decisions.
I do like how someone thinks I'm a Trump troll. I find it pretty funny.

I didn't vote for him however I'll give him a chance.

Top things I expect right now is all stuff Trump said will happen.
I expect:

A boarder wall that will nearly end illegal immigration, that won't cost me any money (I'll accept an up front cost with reimbursements later), I expect said wall to end the pointless bickering about illegals
I expect pretty soon a new healthcare that covers everyone for less money with lower deductibles and lower prescription costs.
I expect Trumps Son in law to bring peace to Palestine & Israel within weeks of him working on it. I'll give him a few months' to plan, so by the end of the year I expect this to be done
I also expect to be so tired of winning I won't know what to do. This is without a timeline. I'll expect signs of tiredness from winning around the 4 year mark. Assuming Trump is reelected I expect to be tired of winning by the 8 year mark.

If the above isn't done with the possible exception of winning too much, I will hold Trump accountable.

 

[fskimospy]

This discussion is very much on topic. I don't think the left itself understand why it hates Trump because the left still doesn't understand why he won.

I find it ironic that the protestors yesterday seemed to state an intent of sending a mesage for Trump to consider their priorities and grievances, which were all over the map. I don't recall Obama or the left, who so arrogantly went charging into their "mandate" eight years ago, showing the same consideration for conservatives. Obama perhaps sought bi-partisanship, but Reid and Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and Boehner essentially nuked that option from orbit.

Amazing how quickly people forget history. Obama and the left explicitly tried to bring conservatives in, it's why the stimulus was one third tax cuts despite knowing that tax cuts like that were largely ineffective. It's why they used a Republican plan as the basis for their health care reform, etc.

It's hard to know what to do in situations like this where people like you are basically denying easily observable history from only a few years back. Are people really this easily duped?

Conservatives don't take to the streets. They rally and regroup and provide checks and balances, counter punching with electoral victories at the legislative and state levels.

I am curious who rises to lead the Democrats and help them galvanize the opposition. Will it be the Clinton wing or Sanders wing? I sure as hell hope Madonna does not emerge as the voice of the left.

No I take that back. Madonna should be the voice of the left. So much misdirected and misguided anger.

You seem to have an awful lot of misdirected and misguided anger at the left. Even if you're against free trade (which is baffling), you should be mad at conservatives who have pushed it for years, not liberals who have grudgingly accepted it when it turned out that economics was so overwhelmingly behind it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Amazing how quickly people forget history. Obama and the left explicitly tried to bring conservatives in, it's why the stimulus was one third tax cuts despite knowing that tax cuts like that were largely ineffective. It's why they used a Republican plan as the basis for their health care reform, etc.

It's hard to know what to do in situations like this where people like you are basically denying easily observable history from only a few years back. Are people really this easily duped?



You seem to have an awful lot of misdirected and misguided anger at the left. Even if you're against free trade (which is baffling), you should be mad at conservatives who have pushed it for years, not liberals who have grudgingly accepted it when it turned out that economics was so overwhelmingly behind it.

The right lost my vote years ago.

I am mad at those on the left for pushing the wrong candidate in what was clearly a populist election year, resulting in Trump.

I agree Obama engaged the GOP in good faith. Pelosi and Reid and others undermined and soured that engagement.

You want to assign exclusive blame on something I clearly see as the dyfunction of those leading both political parties.

 

[fskimospy]

The right lost my vote years ago.

I am mad at those on the left for pushing the wrong candidate in what was clearly a populist election year, resulting in Trump.

I agree Obama engaged the GOP in good faith. Pelosi and Reid and others undermined and soured that engagement.

You want to assign exclusive blame on something I clearly see as the dyfunction of those leading both political parties.

This is the sort of 'both sides' nonsense that has sickened our political process. While no person or group is entirely innocent one side is much, much more responsible than the other.

I would suggest reading 'it's even worse than it looks'. It was written by a liberal and a conservative together and it analyzes the source of our current dysfunction. Their conclusion is basically that conservatives have gone insane. This is backed up by DW-NOMINATE.

 

[Starbuck1975]

This is the sort of 'both sides' nonsense that has sickened our political process. While no person or group is entirely innocent one side is much, much more responsible than the other.

I would suggest reading 'it's even worse than it looks'. It was written by a liberal and a conservative together and it analyzes the source of our current dysfunction. Their conclusion is basically that conservatives have gone insane. This is backed up by DW-NOMINATE.

I am not disagreeing. The right has dialed things to an order of magnitude of 11. The left is sitting at around 7 or 8.

 

[desura]

The left hates Trump because they like all people are dogmatic and ideological, unable to grasp other points of view. As the op puts it, the Daily Show and spinoffs have only worked to reinforce this dogmatism, and sneering mockery attitude towards dissent.

 

[Jhhnn]

The right lost my vote years ago.

I am mad at those on the left for pushing the wrong candidate in what was clearly a populist election year, resulting in Trump.

I agree Obama engaged the GOP in good faith. Pelosi and Reid and others undermined and soured that engagement.

You want to assign exclusive blame on something I clearly see as the dyfunction of those leading both political parties.

You seem to think that Repub leaders have been motivated by something other than pure partisan spite & arrogant malevolence. Remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHV4nDS501Y

Did they show the slightest chagrin at having created the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression? Not at all. Such things are merely opportunities for the true Bush constituency. Did they try to add anything to healthcare reform other than poison pills? They did not. They are ideologically opposed to the public thinking that we can depend on the govt for much of anything.

That hasn't changed. Their only concern wrt repeal of the ACA is to figure out how to blame Dems for the fuckover they'll administer. Free market healthcare, baby!

If it were otherwise they'd have formulated a replacement plan over the last 7 years. They'll just repeal the ACA & make promises.

2016 was not a normal election in any way because Trump is not an ordinary politician. It's like the Monty Python sketch about how nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. It's also not normal in the sense that Putin sensed our weakness & exploited it masterfully to help elect a president who is clearly incompetent to everybody other than the fools who voted for him. He'll sign repeal legislation w/o any replacement at which point congressional Repubs will blow the whole thing out their ass.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You seem to think that Repub leaders have been motivated by something other than pure partisan spite & arrogant malevolence. Remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHV4nDS501Y

Did they show the slightest chagrin at having created the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression? Not at all. Such things are merely opportunities for the true Bush constituency. Did they try to add anything to healthcare reform other than poison pills? They did not. They are ideologically opposed to the public thinking that we can depend on the govt for much of anything.

That hasn't changed. Their only concern wrt repeal of the ACA is to figure out how to blame Dems for the fuckover they'll administer. Free market healthcare, baby!

If it were otherwise they'd have formulated a replacement plan over the last 7 years. They'll just repeal the ACA & make promises.

2016 was not a normal election in any way because Trump is not an ordinary politician. It's like the Monty Python sketch about how nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. It's also not normal in the sense that Putin sensed our weakness & exploited it masterfully to help elect a president who is clearly incompetent to everybody other than the fools who voted for him. He'll sign repeal legislation w/o any replacement at which point congressional Repubs will blow the whole thing out their ass.

I also recall a tremendous amount of animosity towards the Democrats for not having the political courage to challenge Bush for wanting to invade Iraq, but yet they found the courage to do so as the war became more unpopular and politically exploitable. Spineless.

Don't give me the BS line that they were duped.

 

[Jhhnn]

I also recall a tremendous amount of animosity towards the Democrats for not having the political courage to challenge Bush for wanting to invade Iraq, but yet they found the courage to do so as the war became more unpopular and politically exploitable. Spineless.

Don't give me the BS line that they were duped.

And... Duh-vert.

 

[Sonikku]

I also recall a tremendous amount of animosity towards the Democrats for not having the political courage to challenge Bush for wanting to invade Iraq, but yet they found the courage to do so as the war became more unpopular and politically exploitable. Spineless.

Don't give me the BS line that they were duped.

The only guy with the courage to rail against it was Sanders. The Dems wanted Hillary instead.

 

[MtnMan]

All the left wants is control. The prime example, "gun control" is not about the guns, but the control, proven in the fact that they want to ban some guns based ONLY on their appearance and not their function.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

All the left wants is control. The prime example, "gun control" is not about the guns, but the control, proven in the fact that they want to ban some guns based ONLY on their appearance and not their function.

Wrong

 

[MongGrel]

All the left wants is control. The prime example, "gun control" is not about the guns, but the control, proven in the fact that they want to ban some guns based ONLY on their appearance and not their function.

If you honestly believe that, you are very shallow.

 

[Starbuck1975]

And... Duh-vert.

Duh-nial

 

[Jhhnn]

Duh-nial

Check the topic. The 2002 vote on the Iraq resolution has jack shit to do with Trump or post #633 which you quoted.

 

[ivwshane]

This discussion is very much on topic. I don't think the left itself understand why it hates Trump because the left still doesn't understand why he won.

I find it ironic that the protestors yesterday seemed to state an intent of sending a mesage for Trump to consider their priorities and grievances, which were all over the map. I don't recall Obama or the left, who so arrogantly went charging into their "mandate" eight years ago, showing the same consideration for conservatives. Obama perhaps sought bi-partisanship, but Reid and Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and Boehner essentially nuked that option from orbit.

Conservatives don't take to the streets. They rally and regroup and provide checks and balances, counter punching with electoral victories at the legislative and state levels.

I am curious who rises to lead the Democrats and help them galvanize the opposition. Will it be the Clinton wing or Sanders wing? I sure as hell hope Madonna does not emerge as the voice of the left.

No I take that back. Madonna should be the voice of the left. So much misdirected and misguided anger.

I have to ask, do you have some sort of memory recall issue?

"conservatives don't take to the streets"? Seriously? Obama's first year as president was spent with tea party protests happening all over the place.

 

[flexy]

Fallacy #1:

Trump isn't just "hated" by "the left".

If you think that anyone disliking Trump is a "left" or a liberal, you already show your stupidity.
There are loads of folks deeply disliking ("hating") Trump and what he stands for, and not all of them are on "the left".

But of course, for you guys it must be so.....because black & white thinking is always easier .)

 

[Jhhnn]

I have to ask, do you have some sort of memory recall issue?

"conservatives don't take to the streets"? Seriously? Obama's first year as president was spent with tea party protests happening all over the place.

Revisionist history serves his purposes.

 

[HomerJS]

This discussion is very much on topic. I don't think the left itself understand why it hates Trump because the left still doesn't understand why he won.

I find it ironic that the protestors yesterday seemed to state an intent of sending a mesage for Trump to consider their priorities and grievances, which were all over the map. I don't recall Obama or the left, who so arrogantly went charging into their "mandate" eight years ago, showing the same consideration for conservatives. Obama perhaps sought bi-partisanship, but Reid and Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and Boehner essentially nuked that option from orbit.

Conservatives don't take to the streets. They rally and regroup and provide checks and balances, counter punching with electoral victories at the legislative and state levels.

I am curious who rises to lead the Democrats and help them galvanize the opposition. Will it be the Clinton wing or Sanders wing? I sure as hell hope Madonna does not emerge as the voice of the left.

No I take that back. Madonna should be the voice of the left. So much misdirected and misguided anger.

They don't?? Missed all that Tea Party stuff after the Negro got elected??

 

[HomerJS]

Oh one more thing since he started out on day one. The constant lying and denying facts.

Yeah I know you will bring up the "keep your doctor thing" but Trump is eclipsing Obama by 10,000 to 1. He told 3 bald face lies on the first day and I have a thread that chronicles one whopper/week on average

 

[agent00f]

It's really only "obvious" to those with a one track mind, like well, you. The right is nothing like it was a few years ago, it has morphed into a tea party like mob with a 'I'm the only thing that matters and fuck the rest of you' mentality. The "right" elected someone with ideals that just a few years ago would have been ridiculed as a rhino. A person that bashes and ridicules every other company for doing manufacturing overseas, and threatening them with tariffs all the while having his entire line of clothing made outside of the USA. I'm not sure what it takes to cause a reasonable person to look past these kinds of things.

I think any reasonably observant person is smart enough to realize that people generally don't change much, any more than Trump has transformed away from the proud casual racist/misogynist/etc he was his entire life. Similarly these loyalists, their protectors, and friends were more or less what they are now during the same span; so it makes perfect sense why they kept complaining about PC which was designed to provide a veneer over it all, for their own benefit. Fascism has a long history with the right, through no accident, because it's something which comes naturally to a traditionalist pack mindset.

As for the RINO pejorative, that was obviously never a policy related term, but what to call anyone who dared stray from the line. Keep in mind just because you can parrot some idea doesn't mean you're the smart one.

 

[agent00f]

This discussion is very much on topic. I don't think the left itself understand why it hates Trump because the left still doesn't understand why he won.

I find it ironic that the protestors yesterday seemed to state an intent of sending a mesage for Trump to consider their priorities and grievances, which were all over the map. I don't recall Obama or the left, who so arrogantly went charging into their "mandate" eight years ago, showing the same consideration for conservatives. Obama perhaps sought bi-partisanship, but Reid and Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and Boehner essentially nuked that option from orbit.

Conservatives don't take to the streets. They rally and regroup and provide checks and balances, counter punching with electoral victories at the legislative and state levels.

I am curious who rises to lead the Democrats and help them galvanize the opposition. Will it be the Clinton wing or Sanders wing? I sure as hell hope Madonna does not emerge as the voice of the left.

No I take that back. Madonna should be the voice of the left. So much misdirected and misguided anger.

The entire D party was turned largely centrist by the Clintons. We're just seeing the long term repercussions of being reasonable with extremists.

I was really thinking of the psychological construct of idealization/devaluation, although from what I can tell the concept related to Hegel's ideas if it were applied to a society instead of individually, but I know very little to comment further.

Realized I forgot to comment on this. Hegel's big idea was that history was supposed to get somewhere, through the interactions of opposing forces. For most of history people considered it more of a static structure where just the players changed, peon classes were destined to be peons and so on. He wrote a lot on similar categories of ideas and was very influential on euro thinkers at the time, incl Nietzche, who influenced Freud and so on. IMO it sort of became a self-fulfilling prophecy than actual causal description.

 

[Dulanic]

I don't "hate" trump but he still scares the living shit out of me. He lies and manipulates non stop. He will say whatever he feels like no matter what the truth is. The truth has 0 impact on Trump I don't give a shit if people think I'm left right or in between. I've voted for multiple R senators, house seats and governors. I have also voted multiple the opposite way and third party. I don't vote based on party, I vote based on positions and the person.

Shit just in 2 days we already have a few lies... How many in a week? A month? 4 Years?

• Size of his inauguration audience. WHY even lie about this? It's a ego thing.
• Release tax returns, has now stated he won't release them period.

 

[jackstar7]

All the left wants is control. The prime example, "gun control" is not about the guns, but the control, proven in the fact that they want to ban some guns based ONLY on their appearance and not their function.

Oh shit! Did Obama get your guns?! I heard starting Monday he's heading out to finally finish the job.