why the complex series of injections for execution?

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I have always been a fan of an idea that a criminal should be excecuted in the same manner they killed their victims.

That's a great idea.

And Throckmorton, as darkamulets said, most criminals that commit murder, rape, etc. don't feel pain or guilt either. The few that do, fuck 'em as they're murderers and/or rapists.

I support the death penalty not because I believe in Hell (I don't, it's a fantasy-land just like Heaven), but because murderers and rapists and other violent and dangerous criminals have no place in our society. None. They are either out free killing and raping, or they are incarcerated living off of my tax dollar. We, the living that play by the rules, should not be punished for those who commit these horrible acts. Yet we do, thanks to our judicial system and those who think murderers and rapists should still have rights.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I have always been a fan of an idea that a criminal should be excecuted in the same manner they killed their victims.

What if they survive? Do they get to walk? Or do you wait until they are healed and try again?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: destrekor
the death penalty would then only be used when it can be proven beyond any doubt

Easier said than done, all people are supposed to only be convicted if it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Our justice system isn't perfect and until it is the death penalty should not be an option, and certainly not any type of torture like you're suggesting. An innocent man is bound to be executed, there is no way you can tell me it can't or hasn't happened, and to me those innocent people's lives are more important than any revenge we feel is necessary for the worst criminals.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I have always been a fan of an idea that a criminal should be excecuted in the same manner they killed their victims.

What if they survive? Do they get to walk? Or do you wait until they are healed and try again?

if at first you don't succeed, try and try again

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

pretty ludicrous when most of the criminals being put to death have put their victims through things much more cruel/unusual/painful

Exactly. Everytime I hear about "cruel punishments", I have to wonder what the hell they think the murder did to kill someone. Pet them to death?

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
when you consider that the death penalty has been proven time and again to not deter violent crime, and that rather large numbers of death row inmates have been exonerated due to newly allowed DNA evidence, I find this sentiment to be rather concerning.

The death penalty is not a crime deterrent, it is a punishment for the greatest wrong a human can inflict on the lives of others. If any person murders another person in cold-blood, they automatically sacrifice their right to remain alive. Life is a privilege afforded by a father and mother and God. You do not earn the right to live, you are given it, and you certainly do not have the authority to take that right from anybody else.

Originally posted by: zinfamous
I don't think the guilty should go unpunished, but I think there are major flaws in our law & justice system that need to be corrected before we consider putting another person to death.

I agree with this. Capital punishment is not what's flawed; what's flawed is our methods of detection. The death penalty should not be blamed for the loss of innocent lives, and instead of banishing it from our legal system, we should work to better the conditions by which we make accusations.

Originally posted by: zinfamous
...especially when you consider that it is the "moral majority" and the " True Christians" of this country that are the largest supports of capital punishment. I wonder what their Christ would think of this perverted and exploitative interpretation of his teachings?

I'm not sure what you were saying was a "perverted and exploitative interpretation," but the Bible does support the death penalty, if that's what you meant.

Genesis 9:6

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Numbers 35:30-31

Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.

Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: FoBoT
pretty ludicrous when most of the criminals being put to death have put their victums through things much more cruel/unusual/painful

The state doesn't need to lower itself to the level of criminals

The state should not be killing people in the first place. Imprisonment is more of a punishment anyway- Dead men feel no guilt, pain, or the oppressiveness of being incarcerated. The only reason to support the death penalty is if you believe a hell exists and want to send them there.

They dont execute people to "punish" them in the tradtional sense of the word.
They execute them because tradtional punishment wouldnt straighten them out. And since we cant use cruel and unusual methods (whippings and such) that leaves the death penalty.
Its not to teach the guy a lesson, its to remove him from society, without fear he will escape to terrorize people again.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I have always wondered this myself. By far the most "humane" form is the firing squad. It is relatively quick, relatively painless, and always lethal within seconds. All the other forms fail at one of these:

Hanging - Neck does not always break, slow, very painful way to die
Electric chair - not all that quick, the time to death varies
Gas chamber - slow, painful, time to death varies
Lethal injection - slow, probably extremely painful, time to death is consistent

What about a gas chamber filled with helium? Isn't the lack of oxygen supposed to bring on a feeling of euphoria?

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
why don't they just use like uncut heroin or something. One second they are bouncing around in candyland the next they are dead.

Hang a big pink dragon cutout in front of them, too. "Catch me!"

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I have always wondered this myself. By far the most "humane" form is the firing squad. It is relatively quick, relatively painless, and always lethal within seconds. All the other forms fail at one of these:

Hanging - Neck does not always break, slow, very painful way to die
Electric chair - not all that quick, the time to death varies
Gas chamber - slow, painful, time to death varies
Lethal injection - slow, probably extremely painful, time to death is consistent

What about a gas chamber filled with helium? Isn't the lack of oxygen supposed to bring on a feeling of euphoria?

Wouldn't it depend entirely on the concentration of helium? Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems to me that if you are not getting the required amount of Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc you will die (how quickly would depend on what the concentration was).

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Xylitol

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
why don't they just use like uncut heroin or something. One second they are bouncing around in candyland the next they are dead.

heroine = $$$

Only if you buy it from drug dealers. Plenty of pharmaceutical companies can synthesise all the drugs for cheap.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I have always wondered this myself. By far the most "humane" form is the firing squad. It is relatively quick, relatively painless, and always lethal within seconds. All the other forms fail at one of these:

Hanging - Neck does not always break, slow, very painful way to die
Electric chair - not all that quick, the time to death varies
Gas chamber - slow, painful, time to death varies
Lethal injection - slow, probably extremely painful, time to death is consistent

What about a gas chamber filled with helium? Isn't the lack of oxygen supposed to bring on a feeling of euphoria?

Wouldn't it depend entirely on the concentration of helium? Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems to me that if you are not getting the required amount of Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc you will die (how quickly would depend on what the concentration was).

Yeah pretty much, but regardless, there is no pain involved. The only "pain" you could speak of in suffocating in that manner would be the realization that you were about to suffocate. Other than that, you would just pass out and die. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I have always wondered this myself. By far the most "humane" form is the firing squad. It is relatively quick, relatively painless, and always lethal within seconds. All the other forms fail at one of these:

Hanging - Neck does not always break, slow, very painful way to die
Electric chair - not all that quick, the time to death varies
Gas chamber - slow, painful, time to death varies
Lethal injection - slow, probably extremely painful, time to death is consistent

What about a gas chamber filled with helium? Isn't the lack of oxygen supposed to bring on a feeling of euphoria?

Wouldn't it depend entirely on the concentration of helium? Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems to me that if you are not getting the required amount of Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc you will die (how quickly would depend on what the concentration was).

Yeah pretty much, but regardless, there is no pain involved.

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about how gasses interact with the human body, but I would think that a gas could cause extreme discomfort (as in, you can't get enough oxygen and your body knows it so reacts by hyperventilating, panicking, etc). Then you also get into the issue of whether there being a struggle just before death is humane (which is a large part of the reason the injections exist now). The fact of the matter is, there are quicker ways to die that are not used.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I have always wondered this myself. By far the most "humane" form is the firing squad. It is relatively quick, relatively painless, and always lethal within seconds. All the other forms fail at one of these:

Hanging - Neck does not always break, slow, very painful way to die
Electric chair - not all that quick, the time to death varies
Gas chamber - slow, painful, time to death varies
Lethal injection - slow, probably extremely painful, time to death is consistent

What about a gas chamber filled with helium? Isn't the lack of oxygen supposed to bring on a feeling of euphoria?

Wouldn't it depend entirely on the concentration of helium? Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems to me that if you are not getting the required amount of Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc you will die (how quickly would depend on what the concentration was).

Yeah pretty much, but regardless, there is no pain involved.

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about how gasses interact with the human body, but I would think that a gas could cause extreme discomfort (as in, you can't get enough oxygen and your body knows it so reacts by hyperventilating, panicking, etc). Then you also get into the issue of whether there being a struggle just before death is humane (which is a large part of the reason the injections exist now). The fact of the matter is, there are quicker ways to die that are not used.

It just depends on the gas used, and in what concentration. If you took a deep breath of 100% carbon monoxide, you would pass out before you could even react.

 

[jeffg007]

Originally posted by: nboy22

Originally posted by: jeffg007
One of the faces of death Vids showed the Electric chair and Gas chamber. The Electric chair was real nasty they would flipped the switch and a doctor would walk in and check his heart rate and the dude was not dead. They flipped the switch 6 or 7 times before the doctor said he was dead. At one point they had to flip the switch extra long and blood was running out the guy?s eye and foam was leaking from his mouth. It looked really nasty.

The next vid was for the Gas chamber and it was over in 1 min. The guy tried to hold his breathe for 20secs then it looked like he feel asleep. The doctor walked in a check his heart and said he was dead. Granted I saw only one Gas chamber kill but it looked the least painful/traumatic.

Those videos, for the most part, are actually fake. The director (I believe) was saying they actually use tooth paste for the foam effects on the mouth. Link

WoW this the first I heard of this. I been robbed I though it was real.

 

[Ryan]

Why do we kill the killers to show that killing is bad?

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: Ryan
Why do we kill the killers to show that killing is bad?

we dont do it to show that killing is bad. we do it to punish those who choose to kill.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: oogabooga

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: zinfamous
our primary education is abysmal compared to that in Europe, and our prison population is what...triple what they have? correlation?

Too bad correlation really means nothing.

...until more numbers bring it around to causation.

no reason to dismiss something as simple correlation. why stop investigating two seemingly related factors when there are already two or three correlated data points?

there would be no point to economics if only 2 related data points were investigated, chalked up to simple correlation, then promptly dismissed.

you'd advocate abandoning all manner of research before it even begins.

While poorly stated I do think daniel1113 was implying that your first post was implying that the two events are linked together because of their correlation, when in reality correlation means something, but does not imply causation.

Regardless : Whatever you think of the death penalty it's kinda disturbing to think that there are people who support it and support non cruel and unusual punishment. Beyond the fact that our own law doesn't allow it, I don't see any reason the state should resort to torture (yea a bit ironic stating this considering current events but it is what I think). I certainly wouldn't feel better knowing a criminal is being tortured before he is killed because that's the way he did it and we're following his model.

hehe, I didn't mean to imply correlation = causation, and guess I did leave it open...somewhat expecting that comment. just figured I would not go into detail initially, b/c I figured that the intent could be inferred without the semantics

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: zinfamous
when you consider that the death penalty has been proven time and again to not deter violent crime, and that rather large numbers of death row inmates have been exonerated due to newly allowed DNA evidence, I find this sentiment to be rather concerning.

The death penalty is not a crime deterrent, it is a punishment for the greatest wrong a human can inflict on the lives of others. If any person murders another person in cold-blood, they automatically sacrifice their right to remain alive. Life is a privilege afforded by a father and mother and God. You do not earn the right to live, you are given it, and you certainly do not have the authority to take that right from anybody else.

Originally posted by: zinfamous
I don't think the guilty should go unpunished, but I think there are major flaws in our law & justice system that need to be corrected before we consider putting another person to death.

I agree with this. Capital punishment is not what's flawed; what's flawed is our methods of detection. The death penalty should not be blamed for the loss of innocent lives, and instead of banishing it from our legal system, we should work to better the conditions by which we make accusations.

Originally posted by: zinfamous
...especially when you consider that it is the "moral majority" and the " True Christians" of this country that are the largest supports of capital punishment. I wonder what their Christ would think of this perverted and exploitative interpretation of his teachings?

I'm not sure what you were saying was a "perverted and exploitative interpretation," but the Bible does support the death penalty, if that's what you meant.

Genesis 9:6

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Numbers 35:30-31

Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.

Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

ok. so why simply punish someone? would you not want to deter other people from commiting such crimes in the future. that is the most sadistic, heinous misunderstanding of capital punishment that I have heard of. The death penalty is absolutely used as a deterrent; this is the NUMBER 1 issue that people turn to in support of capital punishment; despite the fact that there is 0 evidence to support it; and mountains of evidence refuting it.

until you quote from Christ's mouth (the NT), you still remain anti-Christian.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Ryan
Why do we kill the killers to show that killing is bad?

killers deprive other people of life...

do unto others and deprive them of theirs...

 

[FoBoT]

kill'em all and let God sort them out

 

[Journer]

i can't believe some of you consider yourselves Americans, assuming those who i am talking about are. Our constitution specifically states no cruel and unusual punishment and yet you people want to kill these criminals in the same manner of their crime? this is sick and perverted. not to mention the state should never lower itself to the standards of criminals. it thought like these that start wars and genocide. All you need is a good enough reason to start the killing, then it is justified, by you at least. This is sick...

Personally, i think that the death penalty is complete BS because I don't think killing another person is ok, no matter what the circumstance. On top of that, the US judicial system is so fucked up anyways you are surely putting to death innocent people. 1 million guilty deaths does not make up for one, single innocent. To top it all off, we have politicians, of all people, deciding on the laws that will put people to death. This is so stupid. Just about everybody hates politicians and thinks they lie, cheat, steal, etc. so why trust them with the lives of ANYONE, including criminals?

This thread shows how sick and fucked up our society really is...what a world, hell, and i'm only a dumb 21 year old saying this. I'd hate to see what the geezers think about the current state of our society.

 

[MotF Bane]

Public executions for deterrence. Hanging, beheading, or shooting. It's cheap, and then everyone sees what happens when they screw up. Do I need to go buy a flamesuit now?

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: PottedMeat
Why not just carbon monoxide?

Exactly. It really just doesn't seem like it should be so complicated. I can think of at least 10 ways to kill someone that would be easy, cheap, and pain free.

that is cruel/unusual punishment
you could just stuff them in a burlap bag with some bricks and toss them into a pond or the ocean too

How would using carbon monoxide be cruel and unusual? How about using anesthesia, and then carbon monoxide?

ask the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cas73.htm

In short, we hold that the district court's extensive factual findings
concerning the level of pain suffered by an inmate during execution by
lethal gas are not clearly erroneous. The district court's findings of
extreme pain, the length of time this extreme pain lasts, and the
substantial risk that inmates will suffer this extreme pain for several
minutes require the conclusion that execution by lethal gas is cruel and
unusual. Accordingly, we conclude that execution by lethal gas under the
California protocol is unconstitutionally cruel and unusual and violates
the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments. The district court's permanent
injunction against defendants is AFFIRMED.

Um, carbon monoxide would not be painful. You just pass out and don't wake up. It's not like some nerve gas that makes you puke all over the place before you die. It takes the place of the oxygen in the lung's receptors, thus you suffocate. But the body doesn't know the difference (although the mind might notice the sleepiness).

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: Journer
...i'm only a dumb 21 year old saying this. I'd hate to see what the geezers think about the current state of our society.

actually, most people tend to shift the other direction as they get older/jaded/etc

it is more the youth that are "idealistic" about this stuff

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: destrekor
the answer to the 'why' that keeps popping up:
because our country is too damned politically correct and has become soft due to all the bullshit legal cases that pop up at the slightest bit of 'ethical mistreatment'.

my way: kill the offender the same damned way they killed the victim. now, of course the death penalty would then only be used when it can be proven beyond any doubt that the offender is guilty. Many murder cases are pretty much that way, however some are a little more difficult. That's when you can use life in prison or something, but the death penalty shouldn't be pain free, but it can still be nice and cheap: maybe a bullet one day, gas the next, knife the next, and maybe finish the week with a chemical.

but I'm all for capital punishment and straight up execution.

As far ways that are both ethical and cheap, I agree there are many other methods possible, but I suspect the current standard is to prevent all ethical treatment cases. Using anesthesia and then CO could be seen as unethical by some greedy scumbag family members 'because it starved him of the oxygen he needed, not killed him in a painless manner'. The ethical treatment is far from serving the wishes of the criminal, but rather serving the state by protecting it from the ravenous members of the family out for money.

when you consider that the death penalty has been proven time and again to not deter violent crime, and that rather large numbers of death row inmates have been exonerated due to newly allowed DNA evidence, I find this sentiment to be rather concerning.

I don't think the guilty should go unpunished, but I think there are major flaws in our law & justice system that need to be corrected before we consider putting another person to death.

...especially when you consider that it is the "moral majority" and the " True Christians" of this country that are the largest supports of capital punishment. I wonder what their Christ would think of this perverted and exploitative interpretation of his teachings?

look at it from this perspective: the countries with the toughest judicial systems have statistically less violent crimes per capita than the USA's, of which could be said to be rather soft on a majority of cases in comparison. The more a state uses enforces the use of execution (more executed than say, the very few, in the USA), the more that state reduces that kind of crime. I don't know if those states have statistically more less-violent crime then, or if all crime is reduced... I'd stand by the first part though.

Hell, in countries where DUI's have the harshest of punishments, have the fewest incidences of DUIs.