Why so skeptical about UFOs?

[yours truly]

i dunno if im going off topic, but my engineer buddy once said there maybe certain neutrinos that could go faster than light.

does that mean they can travel in time?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

1. To be near us. Life could have reached an industrial revolution on the other side of our galaxy (a small region in cosmic terms) 100,000 years ago and their radio signals still wouldn't reach us.
2. Think about how hard it is for us to detect planets around nearby stars. The entire RF output of earth is a lightbulb in comparison, and it's declining.
3. Why would more sophisticated civilizations use broadcast radio? It's inefficient. We won't be using it in 50 years, why would they?
4. Back to the hugeness argument. We're a needle in a haystack. For us to find them, or vice versa would take a LOT of luck.

why exactly are we a needle in a haystack? exactly how many galaxies have we explored? you talk about vastnes, then use our tiny solar system, which hasn't even been explored to the tiniest fraction, as a reference to life elsewhere in said huge vastness?

it amazes me how self centered humans are. because we haven't figured it out, no one else can, but we're so special, there can't be abyone else....

What are you talking about? You ask me why I think we're insignificant, but then call me self centered...

could you please rephrase your post?

and the poor reading comprehension (read: the need to make a quick diss comes before any logic) rears its ugly head.

I never called YOU self centered, i called the human race self centered.

That's fine. Would you please clarify your post for me?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Well, they've already proven that they can make light go faster than c, so what's the problem?

Umm... yes, but that was through a medium, not vacuum. And even then the front velocity was still c, meaning that the transfer of information (i.e. an object) is still limited to c.

 

[MikeyLSU]

first off, the other life debate...

Is it really stupid to believe that other intelligent life exists? It seems that everyone things at least low forms of life(bacteria...)exist, but some seem to think it ends there. Here is a question, do you believe in the theory of evolution? If so, you must think that over the past 3 billion years in the universe, at least some other planet has had bacteria or any single celled organism evolve into something at least halfway intelligent. Maybe we are the most intelligent, maybe not.

I feel there are other species out there far further along and much further behind than we are. But I am also in the group that thinks we may never find them or they may never find us before we go extinct. The universe is just too big.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: So


That's fine. Would you please clarify your post for me?

it looks pretty clear to me.

how do you know intelligent life is a needle in a haystack? we haven't been beyond our own galaxy to even know what is out there. we don't even know much about our own solar system or even our own planet, but your confident that we're the exception for intelligent life in the vastness of space? for all we know, our galaxy could be the rare one without much life.

 

[Vic]

It's not that it's "stupid to believe," it's that it is a belief. One not based on scientific fact or observation. The skepticism is not saying that it is wrong, just that it be treated as the speculative belief that it is, and not something supported by hard science.

And this "the universe is just too big" or "it'd be an awful waste of space" arguments are just conjecture. It's like saying that the universe is so grand or clockwork-like that surely they must be some God or Creator. You're just begging the question.

 

[MikeyLSU]

not at all, but I don't believe that the first organism in the universe(little less the only one)was on Earth and no other organism has ever lived anywhere else. I can't bring myself to believe that the off chance at life has only happened once given all the time and chances throughout the universe. I believe in the theory of evolution therefore I can easily believe that that organism evolved into intelligence.

 

[Vic]

Last I checked, the topic was about UFO's not the possibility of simple organisms on other planets. On a giant grayscale of probability, science would have simple life on the side of high likelihood and faster-than-light-traveling Advanced Alien Species on the extremely unlikely side.

In this argument, one thing that needs to be considered is the "perfect storm" of conditions that allowed for the evolution of complex life on earth (see Rare Earth hypothesis).
And discounting that, it does bring up the important point that while it may be possible that advanced life could have evolved in conditions entirely different to those of earth, we have no idea what those conditions would be, or what that life would even be like, or if even something we would recognize as life.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'm skeptical about a lot of things.

Bigfoot. Oddly, the majority of people who sighted Bigfoot had a camera with them. Now, 1/2 the population carries cell phones with cameras built in. Bigfoot understands this, so he hides better, despite the decrease in his habitat and increase in the number of people in the woods.

UFO's. (in the sense of aliens visiting us, not the literal interpretation of unidentified but could be from earth) So, these advanced lifeforms travel trillions upon trillions of miles, stop by, and don't even stay long enough to say "wassup!" Are we really *that* uninteresting??

Oddly, as the percent of people with cameras very accessible increases, the number of credible stories seems to decrease. Hmmm.

ummm check this out.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

First, I'll point out that it's quite interesting. But, I'll also point out that as a young child, I included UFO's in some of my crayon drawings. As a child, I played the game "space invaders" that had UFO's traveling across the top of the screen. Hopefully, 1000 years from now, humans don't pick up one of my childhood paintings or find an old Atari relic and use them as proof that aliens have visited.

It seems quite natural to wonder what else there is out there. In fact, prior to the 20th century, people probably had a lot more free time to ponder that question (fewer commercials on tv back then, and not as much a problem with light pollution at night.) Is it a wonder that they fantasized about creatures from other planets?

Thus, that website: that's interesting. Do I think that any of that serves as evidence? No.

Also, (and I question whether I can satisfactorily convey this in words), throughout history, it seems that ever generation thought that their generation was the most advanced and that there really wasn't a lot more to learn - they had learned about the most important rules of physics. Now, maybe I'm being naive, but in the past 50 years, mankind has learned more about the universe and world around us than in the rest of our history combined. It's worth noting that there are some fundamental differences though. Science used to be more of a philosophy ages ago. Now, our rules (theories) are based on observations, predictions, and the ability to reproduce results. Quantum mechanics, for example, is the most accurate, highly confirmed theory we have ever produced. Can we be 100.00000% sure we've got it perfect? No. But, we're a long ways away from the days of trying to turn lead into gold.

Now do we know everything? No, of course not. But, it seems (at least to me), that we are better able to grasp the differences between what's not possible for us due to technological/engineering limitations, and what's not possible for us to do because of physical limitations.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Now do we know everything? No, of course not. But, it seems (at least to me), that we are better able to grasp the differences between what's not possible for us due to technological/engineering limitations, and what's not possible for us to do because of physical limitations.

This is the important thing that most people here don't get. We may be wrong, and it's worth looking, but out understanding of reality is orders of magnitude better than it was even 110 years ago.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

Why bother with scientific endeavors at all if, as you say, we know everything that is and can be possible until the end of time?

its people like him that wont do anything to further mans progression in this lifetime... if they want to believe we know it all, let them. its the crazy people with the vivid imaginations who always look for new stuff that will progress us.

Fine. Go invent something that makes interstellar travel possible and then we'll talk. Until then you're just a child believing in fairy tales. At this point the concept of traveling to other solar systems is as realistic as dragons and hobbits and wooden puppets who come to life. Take a few seconds and ponder why you dismiss those things as ridiculous and you'll hopefully understand why so many of us dismiss the idiocies that you want to believe in.

Get the fuck off your condescending high horse. That's not even an apt analogy, dragons to space-travel. Technically, we could aim a ship anywhere and fire its rockets and the thing would eventually achieve interstellar travel with a little luck, it'd just take awhile.


What a foolish thing to attempt to make someone look foolish by saying foolish things. Shame on you

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'm skeptical about a lot of things.

Bigfoot. Oddly, the majority of people who sighted Bigfoot had a camera with them. Now, 1/2 the population carries cell phones with cameras built in. Bigfoot understands this, so he hides better, despite the decrease in his habitat and increase in the number of people in the woods.

UFO's. (in the sense of aliens visiting us, not the literal interpretation of unidentified but could be from earth) So, these advanced lifeforms travel trillions upon trillions of miles, stop by, and don't even stay long enough to say "wassup!" Are we really *that* uninteresting??

Oddly, as the percent of people with cameras very accessible increases, the number of credible stories seems to decrease. Hmmm.

ummm check this out.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

First, I'll point out that it's quite interesting. But, I'll also point out that as a young child, I included UFO's in some of my crayon drawings. As a child, I played the game "space invaders" that had UFO's traveling across the top of the screen. Hopefully, 1000 years from now, humans don't pick up one of my childhood paintings or find an old Atari relic and use them as proof that aliens have visited.

It seems quite natural to wonder what else there is out there. In fact, prior to the 20th century, people probably had a lot more free time to ponder that question (fewer commercials on tv back then, and not as much a problem with light pollution at night.) Is it a wonder that they fantasized about creatures from other planets?

Thus, that website: that's interesting. Do I think that any of that serves as evidence? No.

Also, (and I question whether I can satisfactorily convey this in words), throughout history, it seems that ever generation thought that their generation was the most advanced and that there really wasn't a lot more to learn - they had learned about the most important rules of physics. Now, maybe I'm being naive, but in the past 50 years, mankind has learned more about the universe and world around us than in the rest of our history combined. It's worth noting that there are some fundamental differences though. Science used to be more of a philosophy ages ago. Now, our rules (theories) are based on observations, predictions, and the ability to reproduce results. Quantum mechanics, for example, is the most accurate, highly confirmed theory we have ever produced. Can we be 100.00000% sure we've got it perfect? No. But, we're a long ways away from the days of trying to turn lead into gold.

Now do we know everything? No, of course not. But, it seems (at least to me), that we are better able to grasp the differences between what's not possible for us due to technological/engineering limitations, and what's not possible for us to do because of physical limitations.

The problem with your example as a child is that most of us grew up knowing about the concept of the UFO. It's in comic books, cartoons, T.V shows, you name it. UFO's are just apart of our society.

Now why would small groups of people that lived thousands of years ago be drawing people in space suits unless they saw it somewhere? They obviously don't have the sources we do for UFO information, so where did they get ideas about space suits and flying machines? Think about it.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
The problem with your example as a child is that most of us grew up knowing about the concept of the UFO. It's in comic books, cartoons, T.V shows, you name it. UFO's are just apart of our society.

Now why would small groups of people that lived thousands of years ago be drawing people in space suits unless they saw it somewhere? They obviously don't have the sources we do for UFO information, so where did they get ideas about space suits and flying machines? Think about it.

But you're imposing your UFO-centric view on imagery that could quite easily not have anything to do with UFOs. Think about it.

 

[imported_Baloo]

Funny. This is very bad logic. That life might exists elsewhere in no way infers that life elsewhere has traversed the stars to visit our lowly planet. The one in no way suggests the other.

However, there are theories that small life forms, bacteria, spores, insects etc may have drifted thru space and landed on other planets, surviving the journey. They would not qualify as UFO's though. To travel to other stars would require faster than light travel to be worthwhile for multiple visits. It's possible to do it at less then the speed of light, but would take a long time, and I very much doubt they would not make their presence known were they to arrive in our time, since they would need to refuel and all to return.

 

[oboeguy]

http://fskrealityguide.blogspo...nd-wmd-conspiracy.html

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Sure, most sightings are pure horseshit, but isn't it in the realm of possibilities that there would be inter-stellar visitors, the same way we visit Mars? Are a lot of us just skeptical for the sake of being skeptical?

Most people have no idea about what happens 2 blocks from them, yet alone the 'heavens'.

The reason there is so much skepticism is you have tons of people everyday seeing something odd and exaggerating it into a UFO story.

Also most people have a hard time dealing with non-bipedal creatures being highly intelligent as well as discounting life that may not be. It's very easy for life on another planet to be simply algae.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

the problem in the logic is not with thinking "why couldn't they do as us, if not better," but with "why should they be capable of such."

there is an equal probability of finding single-celled parameciums floating about in interstellar matter as there is of finding advanced, highly-technological life forms.


...besides...what's with all this UFOs? aren't USOs, and the history of such far more engaging?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Baloo
Funny. This is very bad logic. That life might exists elsewhere in no way infers that life elsewhere has traversed the stars to visit our lowly planet. The one in no way suggests the other.

However, there are theories that small life forms, bacteria, spores, insects etc may have drifted thru space and landed on other planets, surviving the journey. They would not qualify as UFO's though. To travel to other stars would require faster than light travel to be worthwhile for multiple visits. It's possible to do it at less then the speed of light, but would take a long time, and I very much doubt they would not make their presence known were they to arrive in our time, since they would need to refuel and all to return.

apparently, a water bear can survive in the vaccum of space (let alone a nuclear blast, and 6000 atm of pressure). what would happen, say...if we loaded up some satelites, or just inoculated a few rocks with water bears and sent then hurtling into space in a defined or even wayward trajectory?

would at least some of them eventually land 100s or 1000s of years later (they have been re-hydrated after some 500-1000 years dormancy as well...) on some terrain that they find habitable? what happens then?

...hmm......

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

Why bother with scientific endeavors at all if, as you say, we know everything that is and can be possible until the end of time?

its people like him that wont do anything to further mans progression in this lifetime... if they want to believe we know it all, let them. its the crazy people with the vivid imaginations who always look for new stuff that will progress us.

Fine. Go invent something that makes interstellar travel possible and then we'll talk. Until then you're just a child believing in fairy tales. At this point the concept of traveling to other solar systems is as realistic as dragons and hobbits and wooden puppets who come to life. Take a few seconds and ponder why you dismiss those things as ridiculous and you'll hopefully understand why so many of us dismiss the idiocies that you want to believe in.

Get the fuck off your condescending high horse. That's not even an apt analogy, dragons to space-travel. Technically, we could aim a ship anywhere and fire its rockets and the thing would eventually achieve interstellar travel with a little luck, it'd just take awhile.


What a foolish thing to attempt to make someone look foolish by saying foolish things. Shame on you

ROFLMAO!! Yes, thank you so much for your intelligent and well-reasoned reply. Here's a word of advice Zippy. Learn to read and comprehend before rushing off to prove your ignorance. Your sad and pathetic Captain Kirk fantasies don't apply here. No matter what direction we point a rocket it's meaningless if it won't get anywhere for a billion years.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I'm sorry but the idea behind UFOs is completely ridiculous. If aliens were able to travel here so easily why the hell would they not have colonized Earth?

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

What an abhorrently foolish post. Why act so foolishly? His statement is exceedingly reasonable, there is absolutely no telling what a civilization millions upon millions of years beyond ours would be able to achieve. Look at the difference in technology from the 1500's to now, a mere five hundred years. Take that same block of time, and repeat it ten THOUSAND times over.

We don't know enough to rule such things out. You don't know enough to treat his ideas the way you did in your post. YOU DON'T KNOW and you speak as though you absolutely know. You need to examine your own reasoning process.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k


That said, I firmly believe that other life exists outside our solar system. Will we as a race ever live to see it? Somehow I don't think so. This isn't Hollywood. Any race that did stumble upon us would have made OBVIOUS contact with us simply because due to the practically non-existent chance of finding us, they would certainly do a lot more than fly around with their headlights on, mutilate some cows, write in our fields and then fly off.

You'd have to be retarded monkey to believe in a single UFO sighting ever reported

One, at a loss to define irony, might eventually settle upon a post where someone rails against what he views as silly, unknowable beliefs, right before he proceeds to explain exactly what the aliens who couldn't make it here anyway would do if they did make it here; and why, becuase they haven't done precisely this, we can clearly conclude they haven't come at all.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

1. To be near us. Life could have reached an industrial revolution on the other side of our galaxy (a small region in cosmic terms) 100,000 years ago and their radio signals still wouldn't reach us.
2. Think about how hard it is for us to detect planets around nearby stars. The entire RF output of earth is a lightbulb in comparison, and it's declining.
3. Why would more sophisticated civilizations use broadcast radio? It's inefficient. We won't be using it in 50 years, why would they?
4. Back to the hugeness argument. We're a needle in a haystack. For us to find them, or vice versa would take a LOT of luck.

Yeah, based upon our current conceptualization of detection methods.

500 years ago, ask some ship's navigator to find one haystack somewhere in Africa... not a chance he'd probably tell you.


Now, you literally don't even have to get out of your CHAIR to find it. You just download, on this thing called the internet, something called GoogleEarth, and you can browse the world.

A mere 500 years later, with technology that navigator never could have imagined or had any frame of reference for


Don't want to browse around? Write a program that scans for certain characteristics and it'll find it for you

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Yes, our top scientists believe there is life on other planets (as do I). But NONE of them can explain the physics of how they're getting here. Even at lightspeed travel interstellar distances make that impossible.

Our top scientists are also unable to explain how these advanced species can bend the laws of physics to make that sort of travel possible, build craft capable of making the journey and then travels trillions and trillions of miles safely dodging comets and asteroids and black holes and Klingons and Borg and yet somehow lose their ability to fly when they get over New Mexico. The scientists also can't explain why these advanced beings arrive here and then feel the need to crawl up Jethro's ass with a spatula and a flashlight.

Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

why is jethro the lucky winner? why not bill or billy or mac or buddy?