Why so skeptical about UFOs?

[DefDC]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Yes, our top scientists believe there is life on other planets (as do I). But NONE of them can explain the physics of how they're getting here. Even at lightspeed travel interstellar distances make that impossible.

Our top scientists are also unable to explain how these advanced species can bend the laws of physics to make that sort of travel possible, build craft capable of making the journey and then travels trillions and trillions of miles safely dodging comets and asteroids and black holes and Klingons and Borg and yet somehow lose their ability to fly when they get over New Mexico. The scientists also can't explain why these advanced beings arrive here and then feel the need to crawl up Jethro's ass with a spatula and a flashlight.

Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

What, you don't think alien civilizations could have drunken pilots?

If I'm ever abducted, I'm going to ask for a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster

Mmmmm... PGGB!


I saw a UFO. I wrote about it last summer, and there were some funny replies of people making fun of me. (Which I expected!) Unfortunately my post is gone.

I'm not saying I saw an alien craft, but literally, a UFO. I have no idea what it was.

I was fishing on a lake in a state park near South Bend, IN (No, there were no drugs or booze involved) and saw a metallic orb very high in the sky, but in the horizon. It was high enough in the air that I couldn't make out details, but close enough that I could make out that it appeared to be shiny and spherical.

Here is the lake and an example of what the conditions looked like.

It was a very clear and sunny day. No clouds. I saw the object in the sky and was wondering what the heck it was. It was slowly moving horizontally, leaving no trail. I stared at it for a minute, and observed that it probably wasn't a plane, helicopter, personal aircraft-gocart-parachute gizmo, or skydiver. I ruled out satellite as it was too low, probably not a blimp as it was too high. I don't know anything about weather balloons, but would assume that this would be too high and too big. It would have been enormous.

However, I WAS at a state park, and I'd assume that'd be a great place to launch a weather balloon, and it was football season, and there may have been a Notre Dame home game, so a blimp is also a possibility.

Then I (/LIE caught a huge fish) and was distracted and continued fishing. A few hours later I was facing the other way on the lake and saw it again. I started tapping my buddy and said "Hey, just what in the #*%@ is tha....." and turned around and it was GONE.

I'm not saying it was an alien craft. It MIGHT have been a blimp. It might have been a weather balloon. But the fact that it just VANISHED in a second was BIZZARE.

But, it was a UFO nonetheless!

FWIW:
There were reports of UFOs at O'Hare airport in Chicago, just a few hours away, near the same time.

I'm of the opinion that it was probably nothing, but I won't rule anything out. Time and space are infinite in all directions so anything's possible.

 

[pontifex]

You know its funny how pretty much everyone takes what science says as facts when a lot of it is just guesses and theories and such. We really don't know a whole lot about anything.

Heck, science seems to be its own sort of religion. The only real difference is that we actually have some kind of evidence of something, even if we aren't really sure what it is.

 

[DrPizza]

I'm skeptical about a lot of things.

Bigfoot. Oddly, the majority of people who sighted Bigfoot had a camera with them. Now, 1/2 the population carries cell phones with cameras built in. Bigfoot understands this, so he hides better, despite the decrease in his habitat and increase in the number of people in the woods.

UFO's. (in the sense of aliens visiting us, not the literal interpretation of unidentified but could be from earth) So, these advanced lifeforms travel trillions upon trillions of miles, stop by, and don't even stay long enough to say "wassup!" Are we really *that* uninteresting??

Oddly, as the percent of people with cameras very accessible increases, the number of credible stories seems to decrease. Hmmm.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Strange coincidence how UFO and alien sightings seem to be concentrated in backwoods rural areas where the average person has probably no more than an 8th grade education...dont you think?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Strange coincidence how UFO and alien sightings seem to be concentrated in backwoods rural areas where the average person has probably no more than an 8th grade education...dont you think?

well, if you were trying to hide and be sneaky, would you do it in a huge city or a rural backwoods area?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

1. To be near us. Life could have reached an industrial revolution on the other side of our galaxy (a small region in cosmic terms) 100,000 years ago and their radio signals still wouldn't reach us.
2. Think about how hard it is for us to detect planets around nearby stars. The entire RF output of earth is a lightbulb in comparison, and it's declining.
3. Why would more sophisticated civilizations use broadcast radio? It's inefficient. We won't be using it in 50 years, why would they?
4. Back to the hugeness argument. We're a needle in a haystack. For us to find them, or vice versa would take a LOT of luck.

 

[OutHouse]

I was fishing on a lake in a state park near South Bend, IN (No, there were no drugs or booze involved) and saw a metallic orb very high in the sky, but in the horizon. It was high enough in the air that I couldn't make out details, but close enough that I could make out that it appeared to be shiny and spherical

thats what i saw. it was about 3,000 AGL and moving really really fast from west to east. I have seen just about every form of flight there is and nothing and i mean nothing moves that fast not even a missile. I was on a hill and lost sight of it when it went over the horizon. the whole event lasted about 20 seconds.

the second time i was in my hot tub around midnight just looking at the sky. one our favorite things to do is see how many satellites we can spot. well we saw this cluster of faintly lit objects that were almost as bright as a satellite. we counted 7 of them and they were defiantly in orbit. 4 of them were somewhat together and close, the other 3 were trailing behind in line. we watched them travel from the north going south then turn left then continue on until we lost sight of them. this event lasted about 4 minutes.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: Maiora
Who said you had to break the light barrier to traverse the vast dimensions of the universe?

That's the thing.. if there was a device powerful enough to bend space between two points, then you wouldn't need to travel at or above the speed of light. It sounds far-fetched but is still an interesting "loophole" that gets around the constraints of time and lots of space.

If you had such technology, why even bother talking to a clan of insane monkeys clinging to the surface of a moist rock? I hope to hell that intelligent life is REALLY rare, otherwise, an advanced civilization is liable to wipe us out because the common cold is dangerous to them.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

Why bother with scientific endeavors at all if, as you say, we know everything that is and can be possible until the end of time?

its people like him that wont do anything to further mans progression in this lifetime... if they want to believe we know it all, let them. its the crazy people with the vivid imaginations who always look for new stuff that will progress us.

Fine. Go invent something that makes interstellar travel possible and then we'll talk. Until then you're just a child believing in fairy tales. At this point the concept of traveling to other solar systems is as realistic as dragons and hobbits and wooden puppets who come to life. Take a few seconds and ponder why you dismiss those things as ridiculous and you'll hopefully understand why so many of us dismiss the idiocies that you want to believe in.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

1. To be near us. Life could have reached an industrial revolution on the other side of our galaxy (a small region in cosmic terms) 100,000 years ago and their radio signals still wouldn't reach us.
2. Think about how hard it is for us to detect planets around nearby stars. The entire RF output of earth is a lightbulb in comparison, and it's declining.
3. Why would more sophisticated civilizations use broadcast radio? It's inefficient. We won't be using it in 50 years, why would they?
4. Back to the hugeness argument. We're a needle in a haystack. For us to find them, or vice versa would take a LOT of luck.

why exactly are we a needle in a haystack? exactly how many galaxies have we explored? you talk about vastnes, then use our tiny solar system, which hasn't even been explored to the tiniest fraction, as a reference to life elsewhere in said huge vastness?

it amazes me how self centered humans are. because we haven't figured it out, no one else can, but we're so special, there can't be abyone else....

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'm skeptical about a lot of things.

Bigfoot. Oddly, the majority of people who sighted Bigfoot had a camera with them. Now, 1/2 the population carries cell phones with cameras built in. Bigfoot understands this, so he hides better, despite the decrease in his habitat and increase in the number of people in the woods.

UFO's. (in the sense of aliens visiting us, not the literal interpretation of unidentified but could be from earth) So, these advanced lifeforms travel trillions upon trillions of miles, stop by, and don't even stay long enough to say "wassup!" Are we really *that* uninteresting??

Oddly, as the percent of people with cameras very accessible increases, the number of credible stories seems to decrease. Hmmm.

ummm check this out.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

 

[So]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

1. To be near us. Life could have reached an industrial revolution on the other side of our galaxy (a small region in cosmic terms) 100,000 years ago and their radio signals still wouldn't reach us.
2. Think about how hard it is for us to detect planets around nearby stars. The entire RF output of earth is a lightbulb in comparison, and it's declining.
3. Why would more sophisticated civilizations use broadcast radio? It's inefficient. We won't be using it in 50 years, why would they?
4. Back to the hugeness argument. We're a needle in a haystack. For us to find them, or vice versa would take a LOT of luck.

why exactly are we a needle in a haystack? exactly how many galaxies have we explored? you talk about vastnes, then use our tiny solar system, which hasn't even been explored to the tiniest fraction, as a reference to life elsewhere in said huge vastness?

it amazes me how self centered humans are. because we haven't figured it out, no one else can, but we're so special, there can't be abyone else....

What are you talking about? You ask me why I think we're insignificant, but then call me self centered...

could you please rephrase your post?

 

[Yongsta]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: Maiora
Who said you had to break the light barrier to traverse the vast dimensions of the universe?

That's the thing.. if there was a device powerful enough to bend space between two points, then you wouldn't need to travel at or above the speed of light. It sounds far-fetched but is still an interesting "loophole" that gets around the constraints of time and lots of space.

If you had such technology, why even bother talking to a clan of insane monkeys clinging to the surface of a moist rock? I hope to hell that intelligent life is REALLY rare, otherwise, an advanced civilization is liable to wipe us out because the common cold is dangerous to them.

Maybe some civilizations are so advanced they just ignore us. Like a human walking past an ant farm. But others who just discovered said technology might be interested in other lifeforms and how they act (like a little kid who would be interested in the ant farm). Maybe just observe and don't interact like the Star Trek prime directive. At one point humans thought that the earth was the center of the universe, now you know that isn't the case. If you had told them that one day humans would go to the moon they would've called you insane. It's easy to let your mind wander and think what can be out there. However if there is advanced life out there, I think we'll be long gone before we encounter it.

 

[yours truly]

i saw strange lights just above the clouds at night once in 2003 while i was driving my car. i got out the car and i was like wtf. really weird random lights literally right above me.

i swear.

 

[jdini76]

It was said best in the movie Contact. (I am sure a more famous person quoted it before Contact, but this is where I know it from)

The Universe is a pretty big place, it?s bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it?s just us, seems like an awful waste of space.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: jdini76
It was said best in the movie Contact. (I am sure a more famous person quoted it before Contact, but this is where I know it from)

The Universe is a pretty big place, it?s bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it?s just us, seems like an awful waste of space.

probably Carl Sagan since he wrote the novel Contact.

edit: one of my favourite flicks by the way :thumbsup:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

Why bother with scientific endeavors at all if, as you say, we know everything that is and can be possible until the end of time?

its people like him that wont do anything to further mans progression in this lifetime... if they want to believe we know it all, let them. its the crazy people with the vivid imaginations who always look for new stuff that will progress us.

Fine. Go invent something that makes interstellar travel possible and then we'll talk. Until then you're just a child believing in fairy tales. At this point the concept of traveling to other solar systems is as realistic as dragons and hobbits and wooden puppets who come to life. Take a few seconds and ponder why you dismiss those things as ridiculous and you'll hopefully understand why so many of us dismiss the idiocies that you want to believe in.

Here we agree. UFO's and Advanced Alien Species are as scientific as the Bible and God.

I think this nonsense that UFO's and AAS are scientific comes from watching too many entertainment-based science shows on TV. Yaknow, the same ones like that "The Universe" show on The History Channel last night that refered to supermassive black holes in the center of galaxies as "killers" and "deadly beasts," etc. And people get confused. The supermassive black holes are science. The "OMG it will eat us all" nonsense is not. That's something the TV show's producer put in there for entertainment.
The same thing applies to alien life. The possibility that it exists is scientific. That Advanced Alien Species travel in faster-than-light flying saucers to visit earth is NOT.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Yongsta

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: Maiora
Who said you had to break the light barrier to traverse the vast dimensions of the universe?

That's the thing.. if there was a device powerful enough to bend space between two points, then you wouldn't need to travel at or above the speed of light. It sounds far-fetched but is still an interesting "loophole" that gets around the constraints of time and lots of space.

If you had such technology, why even bother talking to a clan of insane monkeys clinging to the surface of a moist rock? I hope to hell that intelligent life is REALLY rare, otherwise, an advanced civilization is liable to wipe us out because the common cold is dangerous to them.

Maybe some civilizations are so advanced they just ignore us. Like a human walking past an ant farm. But others who just discovered said technology might be interested in other lifeforms and how they act (like a little kid who would be interested in the ant farm). Maybe just observe and don't interact like the Star Trek prime directive. At one point humans thought that the earth was the center of the universe, now you know that isn't the case. If you had told them that one day humans would go to the moon they would've called you insane. It's easy to let your mind wander and think what can be out there. However if there is advanced life out there, I think we'll be long gone before we encounter it.

The problem is (as with most posts in this thread) -- that is pure speculation. You've drawn an analogy, but given no real reason, except an implicit "wouldn't that be nice?"

 

[Yongsta]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Yongsta

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage

Originally posted by: Maiora
Who said you had to break the light barrier to traverse the vast dimensions of the universe?

That's the thing.. if there was a device powerful enough to bend space between two points, then you wouldn't need to travel at or above the speed of light. It sounds far-fetched but is still an interesting "loophole" that gets around the constraints of time and lots of space.

If you had such technology, why even bother talking to a clan of insane monkeys clinging to the surface of a moist rock? I hope to hell that intelligent life is REALLY rare, otherwise, an advanced civilization is liable to wipe us out because the common cold is dangerous to them.

Maybe some civilizations are so advanced they just ignore us. Like a human walking past an ant farm. But others who just discovered said technology might be interested in other lifeforms and how they act (like a little kid who would be interested in the ant farm). Maybe just observe and don't interact like the Star Trek prime directive. At one point humans thought that the earth was the center of the universe, now you know that isn't the case. If you had told them that one day humans would go to the moon they would've called you insane. It's easy to let your mind wander and think what can be out there. However if there is advanced life out there, I think we'll be long gone before we encounter it.

The problem is (as with most posts in this thread) -- that is pure speculation. You've drawn an analogy, but given no real reason, except an implicit "wouldn't that be nice?"

Well that was the purpose of the response, to speculate. My goal wasn't to prove anything.

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Isn't it in the realm of possibilities that there would be inter-stellar visitorsl?

Sure. But until I see some really convincing evidence, presented by someone who isn't crazy, I'll go on being skeptical.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

Why bother with scientific endeavors at all if, as you say, we know everything that is and can be possible until the end of time?

its people like him that wont do anything to further mans progression in this lifetime... if they want to believe we know it all, let them. its the crazy people with the vivid imaginations who always look for new stuff that will progress us.

Fine. Go invent something that makes interstellar travel possible and then we'll talk. Until then you're just a child believing in fairy tales. At this point the concept of traveling to other solar systems is as realistic as dragons and hobbits and wooden puppets who come to life. Take a few seconds and ponder why you dismiss those things as ridiculous and you'll hopefully understand why so many of us dismiss the idiocies that you want to believe in.

Here we agree. UFO's and Advanced Alien Species are as scientific as the Bible and God.

I think this nonsense that UFO's and AAS are scientific comes from watching too many entertainment-based science shows on TV. Yaknow, the same ones like that "The Universe" show on The History Channel last night that refered to supermassive black holes in the center of galaxies as "killers" and "deadly beasts," etc. And people get confused. The supermassive black holes are science. The "OMG it will eat us all" nonsense is not. That's something the TV show's producer put in there for entertainment.
The same thing applies to alien life. The possibility that it exists is scientific. That Advanced Alien Species travel in faster-than-light flying saucers to visit earth is NOT.

Well put Vic. That's the real problem here -- too many people are acting as if the probability of technologies is well modeled by pulp sci-fi. It is not. We can make clear extrapolations involving the technology and physical knowledge of today. We can reasonably speculate about generation ships, nuclear rockets, space colonies and deep space probes. Just because we have traveled faster in the past doesn't mean technology will magically break the "light barrier" any time soon. (and that is a laughable concept at best -- the sound barrier was always an engineering problem, not a physical constraint).

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: So
You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

 

[Vic]

Well... I think the reason some people say "We broke the sound barrier so we can break the light barrier" is because they are unaware of the current scientific understanding of the nature of space-time.
For one thing, space and time are (for all practical purposes) one. You can't discuss moving through space without moving through time.
Second, when they hear things like "the universe has been expanding since the big bang," their minds draw up an analogy like a bomb exploding. And that's not what's happening. A bomb is an explosion within space. The universe is an explosion OF space. What is happening is that space -- literally empty space -- is constantly expanding in way that we don't understand quite yet. To the point that some scientists have speculated that gravity does not "pull" so much as empty space "pushes" (which would explain galactic rotation in a manner that would do away with the need for theoretical dark matter, but which is so non-Newtonian that it is unlikely to be generally accepted anytime soon).

Long story short and all this goes way past scientists' heads (much less my own, which drowned long ago trying to figure this out, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong), but the idea of moving faster than energy (light) would mean having more energy than energy itself.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Vic
Well... I think the reason some people say "We broke the sound barrier so we can break the light barrier" is because they are unaware of the current scientific understanding of the nature of space-time.
For one thing, space and time are (for all practical purposes) one. You can't discuss moving through space without moving through time.
Second, when they hear things like "the universe has been expanding since the big bang," their minds draw up an analogy like a bomb exploding. And that's not what's happening. A bomb is an explosion within space. The universe is an explosion OF space. What is happening is that space -- literally empty space -- is constantly expanding in way that we don't understand quite yet. To the point that some scientists have speculated that gravity does not "pull" so much as empty space "pushes" (which would explain galactic rotation in a manner that would do away with the need for theoretical dark matter, but which is so non-Newtonian that it is unlikely to be generally accepted anytime soon).

Long story short and all this goes way past scientists' heads (much less my own, which drowned long ago trying to figure this out, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong), but the idea of moving faster than energy (light) would mean having more energy than energy itself.

Well, they've already proven that they can make light go faster than c, so what's the problem?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Even though there is life on other planets, there's no good reason to think they can break the light barrier. All sightings are pure horseshit, not just some.

Wait, I'm confused - when we can travel inter-planetarily, why couldn't others? Especially if their technology is greater than ours.

You have no clue how mind-bendingly, insanely vastly huge space is, do you?

Some get that douglas adams quote, stat!

Space is huge, even if life does exist out there (a big if), they need:

1. To be near us. Life could have reached an industrial revolution on the other side of our galaxy (a small region in cosmic terms) 100,000 years ago and their radio signals still wouldn't reach us.
2. Think about how hard it is for us to detect planets around nearby stars. The entire RF output of earth is a lightbulb in comparison, and it's declining.
3. Why would more sophisticated civilizations use broadcast radio? It's inefficient. We won't be using it in 50 years, why would they?
4. Back to the hugeness argument. We're a needle in a haystack. For us to find them, or vice versa would take a LOT of luck.

why exactly are we a needle in a haystack? exactly how many galaxies have we explored? you talk about vastnes, then use our tiny solar system, which hasn't even been explored to the tiniest fraction, as a reference to life elsewhere in said huge vastness?

it amazes me how self centered humans are. because we haven't figured it out, no one else can, but we're so special, there can't be abyone else....

What are you talking about? You ask me why I think we're insignificant, but then call me self centered...

could you please rephrase your post?

and the poor reading comprehension (read: the need to make a quick diss comes before any logic) rears its ugly head.

I never called YOU self centered, i called the human race self centered.