Why so skeptical about UFOs?

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
here is my thought:

First, assume that all advanced species survive by maximizing their individual well being. The better off you are, the more likely you are to survive.

Second, assume that all species have to reproduce, and will have to be equipt to produce a greater quantity that the individual or mating pair (triad, etc) consists of. A mating pair will have to be able to produce more than two individuals, and so on.

every species that achieves intelligence will use that intelligence to exploit there surroundings for their own well being.

every species that achieves intelligence will develop new technologies and systems to improve their well being.

As wellbeing increases, populations will grow rapidly as mortality declines.

Populations exploit long term resources deposits for sort term gain, maximizing their wellbeing.

Populations continue to increase as long as resources are available.

Resources begin to run out, and population crashes. Environment is destroyed in attempts of the population to survive, long term economic output declines. Violence leads to the annihilation of parts of the population, environmental destruction kills most of the rest. Whatever survivors are left (if any) cannot achieve anything as there are few resources left to exploit, and they are too busy pursuing their basic needs anyways.

Basically every advanced species manages to kill itself before it can spread throughout the galaxy.



Think of it as the easter island phenomenon if you want, since its probably the best analogy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_island

...Unless they put their entire population in a ship 1/3 the size of the moon and invade habitable planets with 15 mile wide daughter ships...

[/ID4]

that movie was rediculus, because if a civilization reached the point were it would transport an entire population accross the stars, it could just as easily transport its excess population to an uninhabited planet. That said, we should start building a mothership 1/3 the size of the moon.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Well, a UFO does not equal " Alien" Its just an flying object that we have not classified. So yes, UFo's exist

For an Alien point of view, Its hard to believe the technology of higher beings and their ability to travel vast distances in sort periods of time. But think of how it was 300 years ago. A person 300 years ago would thin everything we have here today is magic. And the thing is, when you think about it, technology is amazing.

How is is that metal plates spinning around fast is able to produce images in a screen and transmit information humans can understand?
How does a CPU do the work of thousands of human minds in seconds, in such a tiny package?

Scientific Improvement is not always a straightfoward process.

When you think about technology like that, you can start to visualize what civilizations thousands of years older than us have.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
here is my thought:

First, assume that all advanced species survive by maximizing their individual well being. The better off you are, the more likely you are to survive.

Second, assume that all species have to reproduce, and will have to be equipt to produce a greater quantity that the individual or mating pair (triad, etc) consists of. A mating pair will have to be able to produce more than two individuals, and so on.

every species that achieves intelligence will use that intelligence to exploit there surroundings for their own well being.

every species that achieves intelligence will develop new technologies and systems to improve their well being.

As wellbeing increases, populations will grow rapidly as mortality declines.

Populations exploit long term resources deposits for sort term gain, maximizing their wellbeing.

Populations continue to increase as long as resources are available.

Resources begin to run out, and population crashes. Environment is destroyed in attempts of the population to survive, long term economic output declines. Violence leads to the annihilation of parts of the population, environmental destruction kills most of the rest. Whatever survivors are left (if any) cannot achieve anything as there are few resources left to exploit, and they are too busy pursuing their basic needs anyways.

Basically every advanced species manages to kill itself before it can spread throughout the galaxy.



Think of it as the easter island phenomenon if you want, since its probably the best analogy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_island

...Unless they put their entire population in a ship 1/3 the size of the moon and invade habitable planets with 15 mile wide daughter ships...

[/ID4]

that movie was rediculus, because if a civilization reached the point were it would transport an entire population accross the stars, it could just as easily transport its excess population to an uninhabited planet. That said, we should start building a mothership 1/3 the size of the moon.

Definately, while we could just colonize, outright conquest and pillaging is so much more fun

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Its all a conspiracy. The moon IS a mothership.

 

[Wheezer]

Well, I have not heard of any conclusive evidence that anything beyond bacteria is alive outside our planet.

It is an incessant human need to feel and think that there is something greater than ourselves. From religions that believe in greater god(s) to those that believe that the universe so great and vast that there must be someone out there that is better, stronger and more intelligent than we are. Why?

Why does that have to be an option?

Perhaps we are it, and the only other living thing out there is a tiny microbe living in some stew on some distant planet.

 

[Staples]

I think most people believe in aliens but the universe is so big that it is doubtful that they have ever been able to come anywhere close to Earth let alone this solar system.

 

[db]

Many of those who have seen UFOs don't talk about it b/c of people's reactions (or utter silence).

As far as "science", we are constricted by what we think we know. Ponder what passed for science in the past, and compare that to what we have leaned since then; etc. At every point in time, folk probably thought that they had pretty much figured everything out, and knew the limits beyond which nothing could pass.

 

[IamBusby]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Well, a UFO does not equal " Alien" Its just an flying object that we have not classified. So yes, UFo's exist

For an Alien point of view, Its hard to believe the technology of higher beings and their ability to travel vast distances in sort periods of time. But think of how it was 300 years ago. A person 300 years ago would thin everything we have here today is magic. And the thing is, when you think about it, technology is amazing.

How is is that metal plates spinning around fast is able to produce images in a screen and transmit information humans can understand?
How does a CPU do the work of thousands of human minds in seconds, in such a tiny package?

Scientific Improvement is not always a straightfoward process.

When you think about technology like that, you can start to visualize what civilizations thousands of years older than us have.

Exactly. Only a month ago I would of though a TV which can make 3d images just appear in thin air without the need for those red/blue glasses would be crazy but now they've got prototype TV's on show doing just that.

I can imagine within my lifetime in 40-50 years the technology out then will seem like magic to a lot of us so to just imagine the technology acheived in the thousands of years mark.

 

[Sable]

Hmm, lets think. Why are people skeptical? Maybe because THERE'S NO ACTUAL PROOF!!!!

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13


When you think about technology like that, you can start to visualize what civilizations thousands of years older than us have.

Or millions, or imagine even billions.


That's why I began thinking that maybe there is a link between timescales of existence and range of travel.

Pre- Civ - few hundred mile range of travel (light intra-continental travel)

1 thousand year old (year 1000) civ - few thousand mile range of travel (light intra-planetary travel)

2 Thousand year civilization - Light interplanetary travel

2-3 thousand year old civ - interstellar travel

1 million year old civ - galaxy-wide travel

500 million year old civ - inter-galactic travel

Billion year old civ - inter-dimensional/time travel

or whatever

 

[Sable]

Problem is, 100 years or 10000000 years, the laws of physics still stand. There's a chance that the only way to enable interstellar travel would be via Arks where successive generations carry on the journey.

We may never come up with a propulsion device capable of approaching the speed of light, or a device which allows safe travel through wormholes, simply because it isn't possible.

 

[Polish3d]

I wonder if the relative effect of speed on time can be compounded.


say:


Have a ship going at near the speed of light

Then have an object doing loops around the ship also at near the speed of light

Have a person inside the capsule

So that time for the person/capsule pass more slowly than that of the ship whose own time is also passing more slowly then the surrounding universe.


Abitrary:

So 1 year for the person is 1000 years for the ship, which is 10,000,000,000,000 years outside the ship, and all that time they've been traveling at near lightspeed and they've just traversed the galaxy+ in a year

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212
Sure, most sightings are pure horseshit, but isn't it in the realm of possibilities that there would be inter-stellar visitors, the same way we visit Mars? Are a lot of us just skeptical for the sake of being skeptical?

"Belief by our top scientists" does not enter into the realm of evidence...

otherwise
75% of the worlds population believes that there is a God of some type...
which also doesnt come into play...

 

[Phoenix86]

Whole civilizations that had the ability to travel space could have come and gone by now and we'd never know it. Just thinking about how small a single planet is compared to everything else makes the chances seem infinite that there's "other life out there".

Now factor in time.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Yes, our top scientists believe there is life on other planets (as do I). But NONE of them can explain the physics of how they're getting here. Even at lightspeed travel interstellar distances make that impossible.

Our top scientists are also unable to explain how these advanced species can bend the laws of physics to make that sort of travel possible, build craft capable of making the journey and then travels trillions and trillions of miles safely dodging comets and asteroids and black holes and Klingons and Borg and yet somehow lose their ability to fly when they get over New Mexico. The scientists also can't explain why these advanced beings arrive here and then feel the need to crawl up Jethro's ass with a spatula and a flashlight.

Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

the laws of physics have only been discovered/worked out/decided by us over the past few hundred years....theres every possibility that our understanding is wrong, flawed, or in relative terms... very rudimentary. for all we know we havent even scratched the surface when it comes to physics of the universe.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

And humans have been experts on space travel for, what, 50 years? It's a joke to even pretend we know what is probable centuries down the line, let alone millions of years down the line (as most scientist predict other civilizations would likely be millions of years more advanced than ours).

And you can believe that magic will be possible millions of year from now too and mankind will be able to cast spells to make themselves invisible, or strong, or grant the ability to fly. You're simply making up what you WANT to be true. Why stop at space travel? If you're inventing abilities that don't exist at least show some creativity and invent something more interesting than flying saucers.

Why bother with scientific endeavors at all if, as you say, we know everything that is and can be possible until the end of time?

its people like him that wont do anything to further mans progression in this lifetime... if they want to believe we know it all, let them. its the crazy people with the vivid imaginations who always look for new stuff that will progress us.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

I'd agree that there's other life out there, but that's about all, I don't think we've had alien visitings here.

To the person that commented on not even knowing what's in the ocean - I agree, we have enough trouble learning all about that and it's on our own planet.

 

[AmpedSilence]

I hate to reference TV shows, but seriously look at Stargate SG1. Is it so hard to believe that a race similar to the Tallons exists (http://www.gateworld.net/omnip...s/links/tollan.shtml)? They were the same to Earth-humans in every way except that the Dark Ages didn't happen to them. With an additional 500 years of technological progress, who can say what is possible. And recent archaeological evidence of our own species is backing that up. A recently discovered marble cutting site that was used by the Romans/Greeks/Egyptians (can't remember who) was not to be re-invented until the European Renaissance, almost 1000 years later. The gap in technological progression that the Dark Ages created is just mind-blowing.

A poster above said something about Earth, without knowledge one way or another, should be considered a statistical mean, not a massive deviation from the mean. I'm sure with further exploration that will turn out to be the case.

Now, to the question at hand. i believe it is possible that some UFO's have been alien in nature. The one in Roswell? Well, that is just stupid to think that a species that was able to traverse the universe makes a mistake and crash lands in New Mexico; possible yes, probable no where near. I'm going to go with the reason they came up in Futurama.

Yeah, you could say that i have an active imagination, but there are things in our own world which defy even the most active imaginations. I'm sure what i can think up is nothing like what is possible in the real world.

 

[jjones]

Because aliens don't fly around in inverted soupbowls waiting for someone to film them with the worst camera ever made.

 

[Modelworks]

In regards to the laws of physics.
There is tons we do not understand.
And just recently a planet was discovered that according to the laws of physics cannot exist. Gravity isn't a constant anymore.

oops, time to rethink things

"TrES-4 appears to be something of a theoretical problem," said Edward Dunham, Lowell Observatory Instrument Scientist. "It is larger relative to its mass than current models of superheated giant planets can presently explain. Problems are good, though, since we learn new things by solving them."

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Yes, our top scientists believe there is life on other planets (as do I). But NONE of them can explain the physics of how they're getting here. Even at lightspeed travel interstellar distances make that impossible.

Our top scientists are also unable to explain how these advanced species can bend the laws of physics to make that sort of travel possible, build craft capable of making the journey and then travels trillions and trillions of miles safely dodging comets and asteroids and black holes and Klingons and Borg and yet somehow lose their ability to fly when they get over New Mexico. The scientists also can't explain why these advanced beings arrive here and then feel the need to crawl up Jethro's ass with a spatula and a flashlight.

Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

What, you don't think alien civilizations could have drunken pilots?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Yes, our top scientists believe there is life on other planets (as do I). But NONE of them can explain the physics of how they're getting here. Even at lightspeed travel interstellar distances make that impossible.

Our top scientists are also unable to explain how these advanced species can bend the laws of physics to make that sort of travel possible, build craft capable of making the journey and then travels trillions and trillions of miles safely dodging comets and asteroids and black holes and Klingons and Borg and yet somehow lose their ability to fly when they get over New Mexico. The scientists also can't explain why these advanced beings arrive here and then feel the need to crawl up Jethro's ass with a spatula and a flashlight.

Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

What, you don't think alien civilizations could have drunken pilots?

If I'm ever abducted, I'm going to ask for a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: jjones
Because aliens don't fly around in inverted soupbowls waiting for someone to film them with the worst camera ever made.

For some reason that reminded me of teh Brady Bunch episode where one of them is using a flashlight to project a UFO in the sky.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Yes, our top scientists believe there is life on other planets (as do I). But NONE of them can explain the physics of how they're getting here. Even at lightspeed travel interstellar distances make that impossible.

Our top scientists are also unable to explain how these advanced species can bend the laws of physics to make that sort of travel possible, build craft capable of making the journey and then travels trillions and trillions of miles safely dodging comets and asteroids and black holes and Klingons and Borg and yet somehow lose their ability to fly when they get over New Mexico. The scientists also can't explain why these advanced beings arrive here and then feel the need to crawl up Jethro's ass with a spatula and a flashlight.

Life on other planets != them being able to get here.

What, you don't think alien civilizations could have drunken pilots?

If I'm ever abducted, I'm going to ask for a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster

Just make sure you only have one

 

[OutHouse]

if anybody can look at this picture and honestly say Earth is the only planet in the universe who can launch rockets into space are complete nutjobs.

so yes i do believe in UFO's i have seen a couple.